The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 1]

[MainCharacter]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Imagine if you tricked the evil aliens into transporting their home planet into the Earth Solar system during the 1930's so that they could easily conquer us due to their superior technology. But that would create a time paradox. So their entire planet explodes.

Except that can't happen because it didn't happen. I think you are forgetting the main focus of this theory and it's use in things like Haruhi.

It won't cause anything to explode. A time paradox is IMPOSSIBLE. Whatever happened in the past is set in stone. If you go back to change something, you ALWAYS went back and changed something so you changed nothing since your change is set in stone.

You getting shot before you go back in time is not the universe preventing any paradox, it's just something that happened.

[Tunafishisgood]

o_O new ending is good and all but it gives me a seizure.

Otherwise, it was good episode despite the art style that looked like the mix between K-on and Clannad, It stuck with the storyline nicely.
9/10

[OkamiNoKaze]

Great to see Haruhi return, glad I didn't have to wait nearly as long as some of you.

Although the changes in art are noticeably, I didn't find it all that distracting. I just read this story on the translated novel site, and I'm particularly surprised how close my mental image and the show was. I also liked how fast the traveling was done, both times, he just barely closed his eyes, though Yuki's version was just a bit faster. The new ending song is pretty cool, someone mentioned clues to disappearance in the ED, I must be slow, I didn't catch them, except the flashing, I gave this episode a 10

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

It won't cause anything to explode. A time paradox is IMPOSSIBLE. Whatever happened in the past is set in stone. If you go back to change something, you ALWAYS went back and changed something so you changed nothing since your change is set in stone.

Except you run into the problem in that there is no rational way for 100,000 people dressed in chicken suits magically appearing out of thin air in the middle of the presidential motorcade to actually cause the JFK assassination to go off as it did historically. Therefore the 100,000 men in chicken suits can never possibly get transported to the JFK assassination.

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

You getting shot before you go back in time is not the universe preventing any paradox, it's just something that happened.

But there are 100,000 of you trying to do it. That's 100,000 individual attempts to warp into the past that all fail independently of each other.

Also, getting shots is also in terms of probability just likely as your time machine oddly malfunctioning, causing you to explode.

[MainCharacter]

There may be no logical way to explain 100,000 people showing up there, but if they did then they did. It would be a mystery but there is nothing stopping you from doing it. However, the fact is that you did not. You CANNOT change the past. That is what this theory is all about. What you do in the past is already determined. The solution to your problem is something prevents it from happening, yes.

If it makes it easier, you get shot to death before you gather the 100,000 people and give them the device. The point is that since those 100,000 people were not there, they will never be there. It's got nothing to do with paradoxes or alternate universes, or anything like that. It just simply never happened.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

Not quite. Mikuru can't change things, or perhaps isn't allowed to change things, but she can have Kyon do it for her.

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Except that can't happen because it didn't happen. I think you are forgetting the main focus of this theory and it's use in things like Haruhi.

It won't cause anything to explode. A time paradox is IMPOSSIBLE. Whatever happened in the past is set in stone. If you go back to change something, you ALWAYS went back and changed something so you changed nothing since your change is set in stone.

You getting shot before you go back in time is not the universe preventing any paradox, it's just something that happened.

Indeed. It's a common misperception that traveling back in time implies... altering it -- when in fact -- it was a "future" event that led characters to travel back in time in the first place.

For this case -- I am amused that young Haruhi DID not remember Kyon later on when they did met officially for the first time.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

There may be no logical way to explain 100,000 people showing up there, but if they did then they did. It would be a mystery but there is nothing stopping you from doing it. However, the fact is that you did not. You CANNOT change the past. That is what this theory is all about. What you do in the past is already determined. The solution to your problem is something prevents it from happening, yes.

And thus, 100,000 people trying to go into the past to do what I outlined would all die of mysterious circumstances before they could get transmitted.

You could have planets trying to go back in time when they "didn't" having all it's inhabitants simultaneously dying of unrelated freak accidents.

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

If it makes it easier, you get shot to death before you gather the 100,000 people and give them the device. The point is that since those 100,000 people were not there, they will never be there. It's got nothing to do with paradoxes or alternate universes, or anything like that. It just simply never happened.

If we go with this view, it's quite probable that time travel would never be invented. Because it being invented would mean all this crazy shit would happen. But it didn't. Thus any person who could invent time travel will die in a freak accident before they reach adulthood.

The principle is the same. Except now it seems that the universe preserves casualty with a scalpel rather than a hammer.

Originally Posted by KyuuA4

Indeed. It's a common misperception that traveling back in time implies... altering it -- when in fact -- it was a "future" event that led characters to travel back in time in the first place.

The problem is that some acts you could potentially commit with a time machine are irreconcilable with the history of what happened (such as sending a 115 story monolith back to 1880 new york). Therefore anyone who could ever try to do this will

A: Die long before he could ever think the crazy stunt up
B: Have his machine blow him up right before the time warp

[ondivate]

Something really bothers me about the chess part.

Spoiler:

The colors changed. Very consistently, might I add.

edit: So mistakes are actually common. I didn't know, or at least didn't expect it from KyoAni.
edit2: Changed pic to give more info.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Proto

However wins its KyoAni win, so we all win, but this is the ep01 thread guys.

Dont take this the wrong way but.......what is that even supposed to mean?

Wow so I've gotta say, I'm actually surprised at the lack of discussion on the episode so far. I thought people would have been going crazy running over everything that took place in it, but surprisingly not so much. I don't know what else to say. Guess in the long wrong people didn't feel enough happened to warrant a lengthy discussion. Then again maybe it's me just being used to the rapid fire nature of the Gundam Forum discussion after an episode of 00 aired.

Yes though, it seems people are digging the strobe light effect that is the ending sequence. I thought they had strict broadcasting rules about that sort of thing in Japan now, but maybe that's just something Nintendo imposed on itself after the Pocket Monsters incident.

Originally Posted by ondivate

Something really bothers me about the chess part.

Spoiler:

the colors change.

Spoiler for Chess and Code Geass spoilers:

Oh dear....are we going to be having another hyper analysis like with Code Geass' Schneizel vs. Lelouch chess match now. Although in that case the illegal mate was deliberate and a mind game, here it looks like a bonafide animation flub.

What happened to Kyoani's supposedly impeccable attention to detail though. I mean honestly I never really bought it, but come on, it's the opposite end of the colour spectrum. This is just a really silly mistake to make especially since this is more or less their unnofficial flagship franchise and they have a sort of reputation attributed to them to maintain. You would think they'd take extra special care in this case. It's small potatoes really but I can only imagine what kind of a field day 2ch might be having with this.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

There were a lot of mistakes in the original airings of the first season. That's no different.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by KyuuA4

For this case -- I am amused that young Haruhi DID not remember Kyon later on when they did met officially for the first time.

Well, it was dark, and he was already a first-year student at North High. There's no way Kyon, a freshman in her year, could be her John Smith.

Despite this, she does recognize him. Remember her "Have we met before"?

Also, it's pretty easy to forget the face and voice of someone you met in the dark on one random night three years back.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Wow so I've gotta say, I'm actually surprised at the lack of discussion on the episode so far. I thought people would have been going crazy running over everything that took place in it, but surprisingly not so much. I don't know what else to say. Guess in the long wrong people didn't feel enough happened to warrant a lengthy discussion. Then again maybe it's me just being used to the rapid fire nature of the Gundam Forum discussion after an episode of 00 aired.

Most people here have read the novels already.

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

There were a lot of mistakes in the original airings of the first season. That's no different.

Same with any anime. That's what DVDs are for.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Well, it was dark, and he was already a first-year student at North High. There's no way Kyon, a freshman in her year, could be her John Smith.

Also, Kyon seems to have an entirely different attitude about the supernatural than what "Jonu Smisu" seemed to have.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

There were a lot of mistakes in the original airings of the first season. That's no different.

Unless it was deliberate -- to really mess with people's heads. XD

[arcticphoenix16]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Well, it was dark, and he was already a first-year student at North High. There's no way Kyon, a freshman in her year, could be her John Smith.

Despite this, she does recognize him. Remember her "Have we met before"?

Also, it's pretty easy to forget the face and voice of someone you met in the dark on one random night three years back.

Kaisos is correct. Why would she say something like "Have we met before" to a complete stranger in episode 1? She obviously recognizes him, but logic tells her no because there's no way someone as awesome as John Smith would stay in the same grade for three years

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Also, Kyon seems to have an entirely different attitude about the supernatural than what "Jonu Smisu" seemed to have.

He STILL hasn't told her that he used to have the same dreams he has.

And it's "Jon Sumisu", I believe. "N" can end words just fine.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by arcticphoenix16

Kaisos is correct. Why would she say something like "Have we met before" to a complete stranger in episode 1? She obviously recognizes him, but logic tells her no because there's no way someone as awesome as John Smith would stay in the same grade for three years

I love it -- I'm being compelled to go back to the first season to see these kinds of references.

XD

NOTE: The plant Haruhi brings in. See Days of Sagittarrius.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Also, Kyon seems to have an entirely different attitude about the supernatural than what "Jonu Smisu" seemed to have.

Kyon's attitude initially. While he still tries to talk Haruhi out of searching for the stuff, he's more or less mellowed out by BLR. Which makes it another reason I think Haruhi's just pretending to be unaware of everything going on around her.

[orangejuicetang]

I really enjoyed the

Spoiler for foreshadowing/random theory:

king and the queen convo near the end, which notes that it is in fact the queen not the king that has all the power.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

I really enjoyed the

Spoiler for foreshadowing/random theory:

king and the queen convo near the end, which notes that it is in fact the queen not the king that has all the power.

That means... Poor Kyon... XD

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by arcticphoenix16

She obviously recognizes him, but logic tells her no because there's no way someone as awesome as John Smith would stay in the same grade for three years

And this is why she's so open with him, thus giving Kyon the opportunity to suggest that she make the SOS Brigade...

And this is also why she begins to develop a crush on him, creating the situation at the end of Melancholy, and...

See, everything is Kyon's fault. I wouldn't be surprised if he caused the Three Years Ago event too.

Originally Posted by KyuuA4

NOTE: The plant Haruhi brings in. See Days of Sagittarrius.

Someday in the Rain as well. The camera zooms over all the things they've collected and done in the past year.

Fitting since the arc directly after that is going to be the WHAM arc.

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

I really enjoyed the

Spoiler for foreshadowing/random theory:

king and the queen convo near the end, which notes that it is in fact the queen not the king that has all the power.

YAY VOL. 4