AnimeSuki Forums

Archon_Wing · 2012-10-19, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

More and more people are forgetting that strong female characters doesn't mean "women who can kick ass", but that they 1. have their own agenda. 2. can handle the bad with grace and/or dignity. And a couple of other qualities that I cannot remember right now. To be with a boy doesn't demean the girl and her strenghts. To get married is NOT the end of the girl's... career, as an anime character. I can think of Frederica and Hildegard from Legend of Galactic Heroes as example of STRONG female characters. You will never see them in boarding parties or leading battles. But they carries that kind of gravitas that many of the Action Girls can only envy.

About Madoka, her strength lies in the fact that while she was scared, cowering and crying and getting her view of the world and what it meant to be a magical girl challenged by Kyuubey and the grief endured by her friends, she, in the end, have NEVER given up on what it meant to be a magical girl. Her wish is a triumphant affirmation of her own definition of a mahou shoujo.

I'll add that I believe in a STRONG female character more when she is getting challenged in the core of her morale and values, and come out stronger out of it, and also when I have seen her flaws and weaknesses.

Yea, that summarizes a great deal about characters I like. It is simply not just about running around with OP powers, but the inner strength to go through things when the world isn't handed to you on a plate.

Sheba · 2012-10-20, 03:50

About the skeptical people who thinks that such women cannot possibly exist in real life, I'll point out to: Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, who refused to evacuate to Canada and decided to stay with her people during the Blitz. Also Geneviève de Galard.

sunset · 2012-10-20, 14:33

Isn´t the concept of an action girl inherently sexist?

It promotes/glorifies a girl who does stereotypicaly manly things like kicking ass and taking names.
The subliminar message being "manly stuff=cool, girly stuff=lame".

Vexx · 2012-10-20, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunset

Isn´t the concept of an action girl inherently sexist?

It promotes/glorifies a girl who does stereotypicaly manly things like kicking ass and taking names.

I'll argue that it isn't *inherently* sexist, but such characters were nearly non-existent until relatively recently. I think Firefly did a relatively good job of showing various women in a variety of physical or social roles of power.

If we drop back to the '60s - you might see 2 or 3 women in a week of television who did much besides wring her hands or scream in a situation. Now you might see 2 or 3 a night.

In anime, you're dealing with a culture with differences in attitudes toward women.

Quote:

The subliminar message being "manly stuff=cool, girly stuff=lame".

There's the error though - you used the word "manly" for violent/shallow/action and the word "girly" for relationship/thinking/feelings

sunset · 2012-10-20, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

you used the word "manly" for violent/shallow/action and the word "girly" for relationship/thinking/feelings

It´s how society usually associates them, isn't it?

Kirarakim · 2012-10-20, 17:58

I am going to have to agree with Vexx: what is sexist is assigning things as traditionally girly or manly.

Well in general I don't like labeling for guys or girls. Hence speaking of anime this is why I really like when characters (male or female) go against traditional gender roles (but this is something different from the female action role.)

An example I am talking about would be Kino is Kino no Tabi who actually doesn't really identify as a woman or a guy but as a traveler.

Then there are series like Rose of Versailles and Utena who explore gender identity as well.

As for male characters I feel the character in my icon (Natsume Takashi) also has characteristics that aren't considered traditionally masculine.

I think we shouldn't pigeonhole in general. Society might deem something as "masculine" or "feminine" but I think it is wrong to label that way.

Triple_R · 2012-10-20, 18:52

Well, there were at least some real life female warriors in history. Joan of Arc, for example.

And there's many female soldiers and police officers today, and I'm sure they at least occasionally have to engage in serious combat, just like male soldiers and police officers have to.

So I don't see why an "Action Girl" would be any more inherently sexist than a female police officer or soldier would be.

willx · 2012-10-20, 18:58

This entire thread makes me think of Najica Blitz Tactics:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/-VqlWUBqRoE

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

asaqe · 2012-10-20, 20:43

US Female soldiers are never put in front line engagements. But the difference between female action girls here and in Japan is the dependency on a male supporting hero. Japan has at least outgrown that

Guernsey · 2012-10-20, 22:06

I believe it has more to do with cultural and gender roles, I am not sure how it is in the East but I know in the West women are often portrayed as the caretakers while men went out and did stuff. It may be outdated now but it still there in some shape or form. Seeing women who kick ass and take names may not be a new thing but the cultural norms and gender roles make it seem so.

Quote:

US Female soldiers are never put in front line engagements. But the difference between female action girls here and in Japan is the dependency on a male supporting hero. Japan has at least outgrown that

Maybe not entirely but at least it is a step in the right direction. Hollywood on the other hand....

Vexx · 2012-10-21, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by asaqe

US Female soldiers are never put in front line engagements. But the difference between female action girls here and in Japan is the dependency on a male supporting hero. Japan has at least outgrown that

Hah!!! You need to talk to pilots and soldiers of the female persuasion. They're IN front line engagements all the time and the whole idea of a "front line" is historically obsolete.

The only combat *assignment* women are excluded from are direct infantry assault roles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Exclusion_Policy

sunset · 2012-10-21, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, there were at least some real life female warriors in history. Joan of Arc, for example.

IIRC, Joan d´Arc was more of a banner carrier.
Memory is sketchy, but she motivated soldiers, she didn´t actually participate in the infantry/cavalry charges.

Queen Boudicca would probably be a better example of a female warrior.

asaqe · 2012-10-21, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Maybe not entirely but at least it is a step in the right direction. Hollywood on the other hand....

That is one of the problems with Hollywood is the near requirement to force a male love interest into the action girl's life. Why can't she be like a Japanese Heroine, happily in an almost lesbian relationship with some other girl

Sheba · 2012-10-21, 11:50

So... It's okay for action boys to have a female love interest, but when an action girl gets to be with a guy, it's not??? Gee...

Guernsey · 2012-10-21, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by asaqe

That is one of the problems with Hollywood is the near requirement to force a male love interest into the action girl's life. Why can't she be like a Japanese Heroine, happily in an almost lesbian relationship with some other girl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

So... It's okay for action boys to have a female love interest, but when an action girl gets to be with a guy, it's not??? Gee...

Values Dissonance maybe?

Sheba · 2012-10-21, 12:19

More like double standards to me.

sunset · 2012-10-21, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

So... It's okay for action boys to have a female love interest, but when an action girl gets to be with a guy, it's not??? Gee...

Theory #1:
I think people are affraid a male love interest may ruin the whole female empowerment thing.

If the action girl falls for a guy, they fear she´ll love her independence and sideline her own quest/interest/agenda for the sake of loverboy.

Theory #2
They just may not be too keen about heterosexual relationships.

Theory #3
[Insert your own theory here.]

willx · 2012-10-21, 16:31

Lara Croft is THE North American "Action Girl" .. And she always has love interests.. Who usually betray her.. and/or die..

At least she's not always showing her panties off though.. There was another episode of Najica "Fanservice" Blitz Tactics where every time someone jumped into a prone position or were knocked out or shot, the camera would be facing their crotch/butt 100% of the time.. I gotta find that one.. I hated that show.. and my friend LOVED it..

sunset · 2012-10-21, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by willx

Lara Croft is THE North American "Action Girl" .. And she always has love interests.. Who usually betray her.. and/or die...

I don´t think I´ve ever seen a Lara Croft love interest, at least not in the games.
Maybe that pretty boy in Angel of Darkness?
Dunno, if they existed they were quite unremarkable for me to completely forget them.

aohige · 2012-10-22, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunset

IIRC, Joan d´Arc was more of a banner carrier.
Memory is sketchy, but she motivated soldiers, she didn´t actually participate in the infantry/cavalry charges.

Queen Boudicca would probably be a better example of a female warrior.

How about that female sniper in WW2 Russia, that sniped and killed like... what, 200 nazi soldiers?

2012-10-20, 17:58	Link #66
Kirarakim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	I am going to have to agree with Vexx: what is sexist is assigning things as traditionally girly or manly. Well in general I don't like labeling for guys or girls. Hence speaking of anime this is why I really like when characters (male or female) go against traditional gender roles (but this is something different from the female action role.) An example I am talking about would be Kino is Kino no Tabi who actually doesn't really identify as a woman or a guy but as a traveler. Then there are series like Rose of Versailles and Utena who explore gender identity as well. As for male characters I feel the character in my icon (Natsume Takashi) also has characteristics that aren't considered traditionally masculine. I think we shouldn't pigeonhole in general. Society might deem something as "masculine" or "feminine" but I think it is wrong to label that way. __________________ Twitter MAL

2012-10-20, 18:52	Link #67
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Well, there were at least some real life female warriors in history. Joan of Arc, for example. And there's many female soldiers and police officers today, and I'm sure they at least occasionally have to engage in serious combat, just like male soldiers and police officers have to. So I don't see why an "Action Girl" would be any more inherently sexist than a female police officer or soldier would be. __________________

2012-10-20, 20:43	Link #69
asaqe Augumented Paranoia Join Date: Nov 2003	US Female soldiers are never put in front line engagements. But the difference between female action girls here and in Japan is the dependency on a male supporting hero. Japan has at least outgrown that __________________ Old McDonald had a farm...Eyey Eyey O...And on his farm he had a Khzithak...Eyey Eyey O...With a ARHHFAHHAAAAAAAAARRRGIIIAAA HELP AAAUUU HELP! IT'S GNAWING OFF MY...

2012-10-21, 11:50	Link #74
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	So... It's okay for action boys to have a female love interest, but when an action girl gets to be with a guy, it's not??? Gee... __________________

2012-10-20, 03:50	Link #62
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	About the skeptical people who thinks that such women cannot possibly exist in real life, I'll point out to: Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, who refused to evacuate to Canada and decided to stay with her people during the Blitz. Also Geneviève de Galard.

2012-10-20, 14:33	Link #63
sunset Twilight Impersonator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: a zoo	Isn´t the concept of an action girl inherently sexist? It promotes/glorifies a girl who does stereotypicaly manly things like kicking ass and taking names. The subliminar message being "manly stuff=cool, girly stuff=lame".

2012-10-20, 18:58	Link #68
willx Nyaaan~~ Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	This entire thread makes me think of Najica Blitz Tactics: YouTube https://youtu.be/-VqlWUBqRoE Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

2012-10-21, 12:19	Link #76
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	More like double standards to me.

2012-10-21, 16:31	Link #78
willx Nyaaan~~ Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	Lara Croft is THE North American "Action Girl" .. And she always has love interests.. Who usually betray her.. and/or die.. At least she's not always showing her panties off though.. There was another episode of Najica "Fanservice" Blitz Tactics where every time someone jumped into a prone position or were knocked out or shot, the camera would be facing their crotch/butt 100% of the time.. I gotta find that one.. I hated that show.. and my friend LOVED it..