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Old 2015-01-01, 05:20   Link #4121
Sarka
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Yeah I'm with Anh Minh on this. He point things out much clearer than I can.
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Old 2015-01-01, 09:39   Link #4122
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Why Sinbad sided with Kouen: Because Kouen is bigger. His assets (several loyal Metal Vessel and Household Vessel users) is (mathematically) bigger than Hakuryuu (a Magi and 2 Metal Vessels). Sinbad playing it smart, it's more of alliance of convenience.

Besides, Hakuryuu is driven by what it seems as blind hatred (declare war when main perpetrator of his suffering is [supposedly] already dead), that makes him loose cannon. You do not work with loose cannon if there's alternatives. Kouen might be ruthless and dangerous, but he is more stable and predictable.

Also, Judar. From what we sees so far, it is probable that Judar has gravely wronged Sinbad in the past, which is probably related with Sinbad's Depravity. From there, we can assume that Sinbad assumes that everything related with Judar= BIG F***IN PROBLEM. DO NOT WANT. Judar allied with Hakuryuu makes Hakuryuu automatically enter Black List.

About Alladin and Alibaba being naive: Well, they always success with idealist ideas in the past (admittedly, to some extent). There's no reason to stopping it now. They can convince Hakuryuu: war averted, can't convince Hakuryuu: at least they tried, and they did notioned that possibilities.
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Old 2015-01-01, 10:38   Link #4123
Sarka
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Sinbad sided with Kouen? I thought he just watch the fight and collect the spoils when dust settle.
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Old 2015-01-01, 10:46   Link #4124
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Sorry, haven't really read the translations recently, only the last two discussion pages.

So I take that Sinbad decides to go neutral?
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Old 2015-01-01, 10:50   Link #4125
Sarka
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Sinbad is an opportunities, a shrewed merchant, diplomat and OP fighter. He will try to rake in the most profit using the least amount of work with almost no risk. He will watch the 2 tigers fight for territory, then collect their pelt, meat, bones and steal their lands.
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Old 2015-01-01, 10:51   Link #4126
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBomber View Post
Why Sinbad sided with Kouen: Because Kouen is bigger. His assets (several loyal Metal Vessel and Household Vessel users) is (mathematically) bigger than Hakuryuu (a Magi and 2 Metal Vessels). Sinbad playing it smart, it's more of alliance of convenience.
That would actually be a reason to side against him. The ideal is to have both sides as evenly matched as possible so they destroy each other with minimal involvement from Sindria.

Quote:
Besides, Hakuryuu is driven by what it seems as blind hatred (declare war when main perpetrator of his suffering is [supposedly] already dead), that makes him loose cannon. You do not work with loose cannon if there's alternatives. Kouen might be ruthless and dangerous, but he is more stable and predictable.
Unimportant. An alliance with either side is doomed to be short-lived anyway. Kouen may be more stable, but he'll still be looking for every opportunity to backstab Sinbad.
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Old 2015-01-01, 10:57   Link #4127
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Unless the story goes crazy again, the dynamic duo will fail, the 2 will fight and Sin will win the whole thing after enjoying his popcorn.

Of course with the way the story goes but to make Haku crazy evil, maybe the duo will triumph just because.
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Old 2015-01-01, 11:26   Link #4128
Sixth
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Originally Posted by Sarka View Post
Unless the story goes crazy again, the dynamic duo will fail, the 2 will fight and Sin will win the whole thing after enjoying his popcorn.

Of course with the way the story goes but to make Haku crazy evil, maybe the duo will triumph just because.
It would be miracle if the duo can come out from the castle alive..because at this moment, Judar and the crazy king are way above than the duo and they have armies...unless Alibaba has been at Lv100 for the whole time.

It would be more amazing if Alibaba and Aladdin got captured and got brainwashed by the crazy king.
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Old 2015-01-01, 11:41   Link #4129
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Originally Posted by RBomber View Post
Why Sinbad sided with Kouen: Because Kouen is bigger. His assets (several loyal Metal Vessel and Household Vessel users) is (mathematically) bigger than Hakuryuu (a Magi and 2 Metal Vessels). Sinbad playing it smart, it's more of alliance of convenience.
Excapt that he knows that Kouen has the full intention of using that power to some day take of sindria and the rest of the world. If anything, Kouen being the more powerful of the two should only encourage sinbad to find a way to take that power away from him. Thus strengthening Haku so he can put up a better fight, or encouraging a solution where the country and its power gets split in half

Quote:
Besides, Hakuryuu is driven by what it seems as blind hatred (declare war when main perpetrator of his suffering is [supposedly] already dead), that makes him loose cannon. You do not work with loose cannon if there's alternatives. Kouen might be ruthless and dangerous, but he is more stable and predictable.
True, but Sinbad doesn't KNOW that Haku has gone nuts. The Haku he knows is the same guy that Alibaba and Aladdin knows and he now knows that Haku is taking . As far as Sinbad knows Haku shouldn't have ambitions for world domination like Kouen does. Kouen may be more stable but Sinbad knows EXACTLY what kouen plans to do with his power. With Kouen he KNOWS that one day he will try to fight with Sindria and Riem... In that sense, backing Haku would be the better choice...

if anything, Sinbad should not side with anyone and just watch them fight it out. Its just not a good idea for him to support Kouen given kouen's ambitions and his past support of Al Theman... heck, Sinbad believes that Al Theman might still be alive; for all he knows Kouen could try restoring Al Theman to power rather than finishing them off.

Quote:
Also, Judar. From what we sees so far, it is probable that Judar has gravely wronged Sinbad in the past, which is probably related with Sinbad's Depravity. From there, we can assume that Sinbad assumes that everything related with Judar= BIG F***IN PROBLEM. DO NOT WANT. Judar allied with Hakuryuu makes Hakuryuu automatically enter Black List.
This is true... but Kouen ALSO worked tih Judar in the past and the whole Kou empire was built up with Judar's aid. Sinbad should also entertain the idea that he might be able to use Aladdin to convince Haku that he should not side with Judar. Again, If anything, Sinbad should either be leaning towards Haku, or not playing favorites at all

Quote:
About Alladin and Alibaba being naive: Well, they always success with idealist ideas in the past (admittedly, to some extent). There's no reason to stopping it now. They can convince Hakuryuu: war averted, can't convince Hakuryuu: at least they tried, and they did notioned that possibilities.
Thing is, it really seems like they should be telling KOUEN to back down and make peace; He is afterall a major source of this whole mess. As someone mentioned earlier, telling Haku about the previous world and solomon will only make him think he had MORE reason to take over Kou and take it from Kouen who was harboring Al Theman for all these years

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Originally Posted by Sarka View Post
Sinbad sided with Kouen? I thought he just watch the fight and collect the spoils when dust settle.
Well that's what it sounded like Sinbad decided to do after the summit. He said that he would cooperate with Kouen claiming that it turns out he is now against Al Theman instead of allied with them... a claim which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Again, as said above, Haku was the one who took the spear to Al Theman; for all he knows, Kouen might try to restore Al Theman's power so he can keep using them for his personal ambtitions
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Old 2015-01-02, 02:06   Link #4130
dazo
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Originally Posted by Sarka View Post
I agree. I have no idea why the author bend over backward to paint Haku and Sinbad into bad guy when they are not. They're not, or shouldn't be. Kouen is clearly worse, yet Ali and Aladdin sided with him. Make no sense why the MCs and even the peace loving sister sided with Kouen. Is the author trying to make him a good guy? O.O
maybe ohtaka want us to think and discuss about this.
or, she have a predilection to the "white rukh".

because, at this point, hakuryuu even with his twisted justice, is the hero of the show.*he crushed al-thamen,killed arba, stopped a genocidal army, and don't like kouen ideology*
meanwhile, alibaba decided to cooperate with kouen, that is a genocidal leader.

but..this series, even with ohtaka influence*she actually like dark themes* , need to have "shonen " construction..so, she need to make hakuryuu a crazy dude, to give some logic to alibaba bs

about hakuei, she have arba blood in her..so, one day...
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
^ wow, now Haku is evil because of PLOT, so he can be excused being douche. Really. Last time I checked, everything in this manga is PLOT driven. As for Sinbad, you need remembered why there were 2 Magi somewhat felt uncomfortable with Sinbad despite that Sinbad is the best king candidate so far.

Saying Kouen is evil but completely close one eye on Haku and Sinbad because they were influenced by PLOT. If this statement isn't biased, then I really don't know what is it.
-yunan have his own agenda , the guy is trying to pull something ..*he is sinbad magi, but he never tried to be a "magi", and he got the best material-he have issues with the magi and king concept*
- alladin is just a kid without the capacity to think in doing what is necessary*he lacks roots,but he is going to change in a few years *
-judal alway wanted to be with sinbad *in one of the parallel worlds, they are together*
-reim magi only have eyes for reim, she don't care for anything else *never is going to accept sindria*

and, kouen and his ideology has created a lot a suffering in the world *genocidal leader*
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
It would be miracle if the duo can come out from the castle alive..because at this moment, Judar and the crazy king are way above than the duo and they have armies...unless Alibaba has been at Lv100 for the whole time.

It would be more amazing if Alibaba and Aladdin got captured and got brainwashed by the crazy king.
hakuryuu is not going to kill them.. yet...

i suppose that he want to try out solomon wisdom, and maybe talk with alibaba about "decisions" and "balbadd"

*time for hakuryuu to spit on his brother souls, and time to see his father face*

Quote:
Hakuryuu is driven by what it seems as blind hatred (declare war when main perpetrator of his suffering is [supposedly] already dead), that makes him loose cannon. You do not work with loose cannon if there's alternatives. Kouen might be ruthless and dangerous, but he is more stable and predictable.
civil war was unavoidable after arba death...*the alternative is sitting and wait to be killed*
and, he is not "that" crazy..or at least..he is a intelligent calm crazy king*still better than alibaba dad, and the majority of kings *

Quote:
it is probable that Judar has gravely wronged Sinbad in the past, which is probably related with Sinbad's Depravity. From there, we can assume that Sinbad assumes that everything related with Judar= BIG F***IN PROBLEM. DO NOT WANT. Judar allied with Hakuryuu makes Hakuryuu automatically enter Black List.
judal and sinbad have a "special" relationship...they don't really hate each other that much.
Quote:
They can convince Hakuryuu: war averted, can't convince Hakuryuu: at least they tried, and they did notioned that possibilities.
if war is "averted" , then Hakuryuu need to forget about the throne and just wait to be killed.

what nonsense is alibaba going to tell Hakuryuu?
hey man, stop this war!
just kneel to kouen and wait to be killed be part of his household as me !, don't even worry about koeun genocidal ideology, i have balbadd protected!

Quote:
Thing is, it really seems like they should be telling KOUEN to back down and make peace; He is afterall a major source of this whole mess. As someone mentioned earlier, telling Haku about the previous world and solomon will only make him think he had MORE reason to take over Kou and take it from Kouen who was harboring Al Theman for all these years
this
but, kouen have his own ambitions...and as a king vessel, he is going to fight till the bloody end.

about hakuryuu and alma-torran story...
he is not going to give a sh*t about alma-torran tale

..in any case, he already "killed" arba, the one that burned that world
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Last edited by dazo; 2015-01-02 at 11:53.
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Old 2015-01-06, 03:37   Link #4131
hawkeyesvn
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New Sinbad chapter is out. It's Pisti's homeland this time and I can see why she's so easy when it comes to hot guys. Artemyra women all seem to be pretty open-minded about flirting and courting. And Sinbad being Sinbad, he just take it like a boss. This is probably where he had his infamous accident with women.
Spoiler for One big party Tonight!!!!:


Someone get me a ticket to Artemyra, please
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Old 2015-01-16, 03:07   Link #4132
hawkeyesvn
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Chapter 252 is just awesome. Reading Hakuryuu is like giving a big slap to all those Shounen's Talk no jutsu characters. What's wrong with more than one kind of justice, huh ?. Different people have different viewpoint. And Hakuryuu hit the nail about Kouen. How can a guy that let loose a world-destroying organization can be considered a good guy ? It seems like despite his angsty mind, he and Sindbad are the only two people that actually know how to think logically, considering the state of the world.

I'm very interested in what Alibaba gonna do after this. What kind of reason will Ohtaka give him so he can argue back at Hakuryuu? Man, their battle in both ideal and fighting sure will be fun.
Spoiler for Hypocrisy:
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Old 2015-01-16, 06:24   Link #4133
Sixth
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Big slap of what? Hakuryuu is twisting Alibaba's word to his own version. You sounded like Alibaba is doing those "nice things" because he want them to worship him. Alibaba is genuine a nice person here and it was sad to see people trying to downplay his character.

Hakuryuu is just insane. Whatever your reasons were, killing people; especially involved with mass civilians for your own selfish goal is simply wrong. You think Hakuryuu really care about the world being and what Kouen did? He is simply using "Kouen being villain and must be punished" card just to justify his bloodlust.

You know what? Even if he killed Kouen, he will simply find another excuse to execute Sinbad on later.

Last edited by Sixth; 2015-01-16 at 07:27.
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Old 2015-01-16, 06:49   Link #4134
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Originally Posted by hawkeyesvn View Post
Chapter 252 is just awesome. Reading Hakuryuu is like giving a big slap to all those Shounen's Talk no jutsu characters. What's wrong with more than one kind of justice, huh ?. Different people have different viewpoint. And Hakuryuu hit the nail about Kouen. How can a guy that let loose a world-destroying organization can be considered a good guy ? It seems like despite his angsty mind, he and Sindbad are the only two people that actually know how to think logically, considering the state of the world.

I'm very interested in what Alibaba gonna do after this. What kind of reason will Ohtaka give him so he can argue back at Hakuryuu? Man, their battle in both ideal and fighting sure will be fun.
Spoiler for Hypocrisy:
If you can truly sympathise with Hakuryuu right now, you're insane. Hakuryuu is twisted and broken now, his justice serves only to make himself feel like he's in the right and is the only thing that's giving him a reason to live. Hakuryuu is far from thinking logically right now. He's just twisting things to his own convenience.

No doubt Alibaba is naive, at times annoying, and always optimistic. But in the end, what's wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with trying to find goodness within despair. As long as he knows where to draw the line between redemption and truly evil, and Alibaba's journey is showing his growth from a boy into a man.
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Old 2015-01-16, 08:22   Link #4135
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Well i can say Hakuryuu is riding crazy train with full speed now but that doesnt change if his arguments is right or not , Alibaba was just pressing him and putting salt on his wounds but he just used that to kill him which may be wrong even so what Alibaba did isnt right .

Lets talk about Kouen which is practically Hitler of Magi but Hakuryuu doesnt care about that much he just want to kill him and using that for his own merrits . Its funny how people are siding with Kouen i mean if Nazis lived would you guys cheer for them , Hakuryuu may be crazy but his argument about Kouen isnt wrong at all .

What alibaba is offering Hakuryuu is death now matter how you look at it since when black ruth person looses his resolve he dies anyway no matter what if Hakuryuu cant succeed he will die there is no going back for him .

Hakuryuu is standing against a Dictator like Kouen while even the main character accepts to become a slave and bribed , yes Hakuryuu doesnt give a shit about Kouen being a Dictator and he is controlling people with his djinn but doesnt Kouen does the same ?

So if you control people by slavery and force its ok but if you change it to a djinn you are evil ? No both these ways are evil there is no doupt , Hakuryuu is evil too so does Kouen .

Last edited by arthand; 2015-01-16 at 09:33.
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Old 2015-01-16, 11:01   Link #4136
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Kouen would clearly be stalin if you bring real world ideologies into play, as his empire as the entire standardize everything mentality of communism.

Hakuryuu would be be close to hitler, as he has the purge everyone of a certain group mentality (aka kouen faction/family/everyone he knows) as well as the whole mind rape charisma.

neither is good but Hakuryuu is clearly worse in more respects to modern day moralism. There is very little justification for mass mind raping and as Judar points out in the manga it's just a excuse so he can kill things, Haku's not actually doing it for the greater good or anything.
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Old 2015-01-16, 11:02   Link #4137
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Originally Posted by Apoptosis View Post
No doubt Alibaba is naive, at times annoying, and always optimistic. But in the end, what's wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with trying to find goodness within despair. As long as he knows where to draw the line between redemption and truly evil, and Alibaba's journey is showing his growth from a boy into a man.
Of course it's completely wrong. You cannot tell others what they need to do while don't actually understand a tiny thing about their circumstances and justify it's for the sake of universal good. That's exactly what Hakuryuu called: "Hypocrisy". Not only that, it's also very dangerous. See what Solomon've done. It's also out of goodness. That's what happen when some "kind-hearted guy" pretends to be the leader without standing of others' feeling. Those like that are complete failure.
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Old 2015-01-16, 12:18   Link #4138
dazo
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Originally Posted by hawkeyesvn View Post
Chapter 252 is just awesome. Reading Hakuryuu is like giving a big slap to all those Shounen's Talk no jutsu characters. What's wrong with more than one kind of justice, huh ?. Different people have different viewpoint. And Hakuryuu hit the nail about Kouen. How can a guy that let loose a world-destroying organization can be considered a good guy ? It seems like despite his angsty mind, he and Sindbad are the only two people that actually know how to think logically, considering the state of the world.

I'm very interested in what Alibaba gonna do after this. What kind of reason will Ohtaka give him so he can argue back at Hakuryuu? Man, their battle in both ideal and fighting sure will be fun.
Spoiler for Hypocrisy:
this
ohtaka has made a very interesting speech for this chapter.

now, that alibaba shady ways has been showed, i suppose that he is going to run and think about his action for a few chapters...which is good thing, because the civil arc look very promising! and i don't to see his bs speech weakening kouen!

but, in the immediate future, i think that Hakuryuu want to try "solomon wisdom", because he yelled that he is going to kill aliababa (according to the imperial edict) for trying to stop the war, and support kouen (because kouen is never going to stop the war) with aladin and judar watching.

-the ideals battle need to be with kouen, alibaba bs got owned in this chapter.

Quote:
You know what? Even if he killed Kouen, he will simply find another excuse to execute Sinbad on later.
assuming that sinbad is not going to kill, mindf*ck Hakuryuu first ...or that Hakuryuu is even able to reach sinbad shadow

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroForever View Post
Kouen would clearly be stalin if you bring real world ideologies into play, as his empire as the entire standardize everything mentality of communism.

Hakuryuu would be be close to hitler, as he has the purge everyone of a certain group mentality (aka kouen faction/family/everyone he knows) as well as the whole mind rape charisma.

neither is good but Hakuryuu is clearly worse in more respects to modern day moralism. There is very little justification for mass mind raping and as Judar points out in the manga it's just a excuse so he can kill things, Haku's not actually doing it for the greater good or anything.
actually, till now, kouen is the worse for today standard, a genocidal leader(genocide and slavery)..

Hakuryuu that is just "differently sane]" *hitler? are you sure? *

he has only minf*cked a 300-500 soldier(that were working for a genocidal ruler- criminals/kouen have a monster division too) and killed arba, a hot crazy girl that was trying to burn the world ...again (he is quite a hero)


*the "purge"- he is in war against a much more powerful rival, not against civilians / kouen have the 80 of the empire - that he is going to do ..is "liberate " balbadd from war criminals,usurpers and stop the caste system*



and, till now, the whole "lets burn the world" is just a expression(for now)....Hakuryuu need the different s forces help(allies, like in this chapter where he offered aliababa his throne) to crush kouen
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If you can truly sympathise with Hakuryuu right now, you're insane. Hakuryuu is twisted and broken now, his justice serves only to make himself feel like he's in the right and is the only thing that's giving him a reason to live. Hakuryuu is far from thinking logically right now. He's just twisting things to his own convenience.
that is that make him a interesting character, and all persons twist thing for their own benefices, and in this manga, this include sinbad, kouen and even alibaba*in magi you can also sympathize with al-thamen...because, everything is gray here*

and, he have truths in his twisted way, and actually is changing the world (not like the other dude , that want to protect balbadd citizen, but is happy with the idea of they living like 3 class persons with an active slavery system- and actually join to the warmongering country that is going to bring more pain to other cities)

the issues here is that ohtaka decided to make him a edgy lord, when there was no reason for that movement.

ohh well, sinbad is going to crush him
Quote:
No doubt Alibaba is naive, at times annoying, and always optimistic. But in the end, what's wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with trying to find goodness within despair. As long as he knows where to draw the line between redemption and truly evil, and Alibaba's journey is showing his growth from a boy into a man.
you want a journey of boy into a man, check sinbad spin-off *artemyra *

alibaba is not that naive, this chapter showed how he use good intention to change other and create his own world *and how he actually choose his word swith caution*

but he still lack commons sense and a tactical mind...any country ruled by a person like him is going to burn, bringing a lot of pain to the world.
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Old 2015-01-16, 13:31   Link #4139
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by dazo View Post
alibaba is not that naive, this chapter showed how he use good intention to change other and create his own world *and how he actually choose his word swith caution*
Thing is, even if Alibaba's methods are questionable, his intentions are genuinely good. Hakuryuu, on the other hand, doesn't care about anything. And he's not even honest about it. All that shit about his own justice and his own world and whatnot is a lie. Just a excuse to justify what he really wants: destruction.

So, all in all, he's like 500% worse than Alibaba.
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Old 2015-01-16, 13:33   Link #4140
Redhazard
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Honestly, even though the author decided to make Hakuryuu crazy, it doesn't really change the fact that he has a point. More than one even.

Damn good ones at that.
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