Code Geass R2 - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[zalem]

Originally Posted by RedWing

I hate the last part of the ED with Suzaku and Lelouch together. The thought of those two being friends again sickens me. In fact that shot makes them look like they are 'more' than just friends which is more infuriating.

It's CLAMP. That kind of image is something they do all the time. So you shouldn't take it seriously. However, I do think there are definite hints in the episode itself that suggest that a reconciliation might happen.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by RedWing

I hate the last part of the ED with Suzaku and Lelouch together. The thought of those two being friends again sickens me. In fact that shot makes them look like they are 'more' than just friends which is more infuriating.

Could be what someone mentioned a couple of pages back. Shirley's role in this episode was teach about forgiveness. The speech she gave to Suzaku said it all the ending may reflect something to letting go of hate and anger and learning how to forgive in the end. Her death only reinforced that fact. Im not such a good person that i would forgive that easily. Life and loss are very different from person to person some people need anger and resentment to fuel their path in life.

[Ronin Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rahvin

As far as rolo shooting her in the head/slashing her throat goes, couldn't he have been trying to make her suffer a bit, for mentioning nunnally, or not mess up her face, for lelouche's sake?

More likely the former, sadistic little fucker that he is.

[Narzia]

Fantastic episode.

I'm glad Jeremiah changes sides. When he's not snapping and on a rampage, he's actually a pretty cool character. Or pehaps he IS cool when he's on a rampage.
What worries me is the moment lelouch turned of the Gefjun Disturber. Maybe i'm interpreting to much, but that eye-system-rebooting-scene looked almost like his mind is somehow suppressed or manipulated.

[ScudFace]

VV's line about their reason to kill the gods reveals that their goal is not to surpass or become gods themselves. It sounds like they're doing it for the good of humanity. If this is true then leulo and his father might reconcile at the end to fight against the forces of CC(????)

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

couldn't he have been trying to make her suffer a bit

I don't think so. So far, of his kills we've seen they have been (brutally?)efficient. So I don't believe he had the intent to make her suffer. I have feeling, it may be more that he was conflicted. At least subconsciously and he may have hesitated, and made a mess of his kill. He could have shot her in the head easily, when he confronted Lulu the first time with a gun it was pointed at his head so he should be capable of that. I think he hesitated a brief moment, and shot her while being emotionally conflicted. He just wants to keep his brother, so his judgment was clouded (more then usual) and he shot her and ran away without confirming (after all if his aim was off she could have survived if the bullet ricocheted or didn't hit anything too vital... in an abdomen). He probably collapsed against a wall somewhere shortly after having a good long hard think in trying to justify what he just did was good for the sake of keeping his 'brother' around.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying he may cared for Shirley as a friend (he might have, dunno) but he'd be more worried about how lulu will take it.

2am, now to bed.

[Masterkeyes2]

Originally Posted by Narzia

Fantastic episode.

I'm glad Jeremiah changes sides. When he's not snapping and on a rampage, he's actually a pretty cool character. Or pehaps he IS cool when he's on a rampage.
What worries me is the moment lelouch turned of the Gefjun Disturber. Maybe i'm interpreting to much, but that eye-system-rebooting-scene looked almost like his mind is somehow suppressed or manipulated.

I doubt it, they never needed to go that far because V.V. probably believed that Jeremiah's hatred of Zero drove him forward.

One thing I caught that I didn't catch before was how Jeremiah said 'Yes Your Majesty" instead of 'Yes Your Highness" the appropriate way to address the prince. With the former being the way to address the Emperor, it makes me wonder if Jeremiah sees Lelouch as the next ruler of the homeland.

[kari-no-sugata]

Until now, Lelouch has been willing to leave people he cares about in Suzaku's care. While he doesn't like Suzaku anymore, he's still willing to trust Suzaku that much.

Do you think Lelouch will trust Suzaku again, after what happened to Shirley?

I rather doubt it.

In which case, Lelouch is going to be a lot less willing to leave Nunally in Suzaku's care.

[Wintersun]

9 of 10.
episode was quite awesome, though the ending was sad.

i think it wasn't rolo who killed shirly, though it's nice to have 1 more reason to hate this gaytard ;/

Spoiler for on 4chan someone had this theory::

1) Rolo saw Suzaku
2) Rolo used his Geass
3) Rolo attempted to use Shirley's gun to shoot Suzaku
4) Suzaku's "Live" geass overrides Rolo's
5) Geassed Suzaku uses Shirley as a shield
6 ) BAD END

makes sense for me

ah, and about jeremiah, i think he's just acting, i'm pretty sure he's going to backstab lelouch soon

[Yorae_paladin1]

heh that scene with Cornelia throwing a knife on V.V's head boy she isn't taking any chances is she not to say that brat didn't deserve it.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Wintersun

9 of 10.
episode was quite awesome, though the ending was sad.

i think it wasn't rolo who killed shirly, though it's nice to have 1 more reason to hate this gaytard ;/

Spoiler for on 4chan someone had this theory::

1) Rolo saw Suzaku
2) Rolo used his Geass
3) Rolo attempted to use Shirley's gun to shoot Suzaku
4) Suzaku's "Live" geass overrides Rolo's
5) Geassed Suzaku uses Shirley as a shield
6 ) BAD END

makes sense for me

ah, and about jeremiah, i think he's just acting, i'm pretty sure he's going to backstab lelouch soon

Actually that theory doesn't make much sense to me at all. If Rolo saw Suzaku he would have reacted in some visual way. Just a little too convenient that as Shirley mentions Nunally (something that would get her killed) Suzaku shows up. Even then Rolo could have just frozen Suzaku which means we'd have two bodies instead of one. Then after that Suzaku under no circumstances would leave a severely injured friend dying on the ground. That theory doesn't work for me at all.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Could be what someone mentioned a couple of pages back. Shirley's role in this episode was teach about forgiveness. The speech she gave to Suzaku said it all the ending may reflect something to letting go of hate and anger and learning how to forgive in the end. Her death only reinforced that fact. Im not such a good person that i would forgive that easily. Life and loss are very different from person to person some people need anger and resentment to fuel their path in life.

Well think I brought that up after first seeing the episode. Though you made it sound better . After nearly falling caused the two of them to work together for a common goal and then had a talk where I think for a moment they both were enjoying themselves. Finally talking to Suzaku about how nothing can't be forgiven and the only thing holding him back from that is not wanting to forgive Lelouch. Only hope that her actions in the last episode will eventually lead to something positive.

[amjzz]

Originally Posted by Wintersun

Spoiler for on 4chan someone had this theory::

1) Rolo saw Suzaku
2) Rolo used his Geass
3) Rolo attempted to use Shirley's gun to shoot Suzaku
4) Suzaku's "Live" geass overrides Rolo's
5) Geassed Suzaku uses Shirley as a shield
6 ) BAD END

makes sense for me

ah, and about jeremiah, i think he's just acting, i'm pretty sure he's going to backstab lelouch soon

About the theory: Theres 1 thing that doesnt make sense, if rollo saw suzaku why he didnt just used his geass in suzaku? (after all, rollo geass has a big range). Also, what happened after that? i doubt the order "live" could have saved him in that situation. If rollo saw suzaku he could have used his geass to ran away with shirley...

About jeremiah: I doubt he is acting, in the picture drama things he said that he failed his first mission (protect the queen) and could not save lelouch and nunnally (that was before he discovered that lelouch was zero).

[Wintersun]

Originally Posted by amjzz

About the theory: Theres 1 thing that doesnt make sense, if rollo saw suzaku why he didnt just used his geass in suzaku? (after all, rollo geass has a big range).

well, i guess suzaku is still under zero's geass "LIVE!", so his geass might counter rolo's ? ^^ just a theory ;D

[amjzz]

Originally Posted by Wintersun

well, i guess suzaku is still under zero's geass "LIVE!", so his geass might counter rolo's ? ^^ just a theory ;D

Yup, just edited the post.

I find weird the fact that rollo killed shirley because she said that nunnally was lelouch sister...i mean, its not the first time someone talks about the nunnally/lelouch connection.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by amjzz

About jeremiah: I doubt he is acting, in the picture drama things he said that he failed his first mission (protect the queen) and could not save lelouch and nunnally (that was before he discovered that lelouch was zero).

Yep:
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007...5-dvd-special/

[FlareKnight]

The "Live" command is all about him consciously knowing he's in danger. If he is locked into that geass he's not going to know he's in danger and its not going to activate. Anyways I doubt that the command could override Rolo's ability anyways.

I really wonder how stupid those officers were. If anything happened to Shirley who the Knight of Seven commanded you to protect your toast. Why the heck didn't they chase after her? Just give up thinking "oh well that's that." Those guys are so fired its not even funny. Hardly a punishment though, when Shirley ended up dying.

[Crontica]

This episode was WOW. before shirley could even inform suzaku of critical information BAM Doom ex Machina rains upon her Rollo just sealed his fate with that stupid move, Nunnalies and Rollos survival rates just plummeted

And lol Cornelia didnt even give V.V 5 seconds before she nuked him, Brilliant!
Ninja Sayako 100% confirmed! too bad fan service has infected her ninja abilities (x_X)

oran* Jeremah switching sides was completely unexpected but i guess it completely made sense once the goal was brought to light

Lelouch has not saved kallen and and her guren yet, did she get a replacement or..............


heavy foreshadowing with Euphie and Shirley does this mean that lelouch will turn?

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

The "Live" command is all about him consciously knowing he's in danger. If he is locked into that geass he's not going to know he's in danger and its not going to activate. Anyways I doubt that the command could override Rolo's ability anyways.

I really wonder how stupid those officers were. If anything happened to Shirley who the Knight of Seven commanded you to protect your toast. Why the heck didn't they chase after her? Just give up thinking "oh well that's that." Those guys are so fired its not even funny. Hardly a punishment though, when Shirley ended up dying.

nice spotting that critical error i agree they should be executed

[Var]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Could be what someone mentioned a couple of pages back. Shirley's role in this episode was teach about forgiveness. The speech she gave to Suzaku said it all the ending may reflect something to letting go of hate and anger and learning how to forgive in the end. Her death only reinforced that fact. Im not such a good person that i would forgive that easily. Life and loss are very different from person to person some people need anger and resentment to fuel their path in life.

I think when Shirley confronted Suzaku she inadvertently told him that she had her memories back. He acted surprised and shocked, I doubt he was happy about the revelation as well. It could add fuel to Suzaku thinking Lelouch killed her to silence her, or it could further the opposite that Suzaku killed her by accident on trying to investigate what was happening with her memories, and meeting Rolo.

As for his Geass overriding, Rolo's Geass suspends the users perception of time, Geass themselves (queue Jeremiah's 'geass') are not connected to the flow of time. So I don't think we can say either way, without further information, if the "Live" Geass would trigger if Suzaku was time-stopped by Rolo.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Var

As for his Geass overriding, Rolo's Geass suspends the users perception of time, Geass themselves (queue Jeremiah's 'geass') are not connected to the flow of time. So I don't think we can say either way, without further information, if the "Live" Geass would trigger if Suzaku was time-stopped by Rolo.

I'd say that it likely won't trigger because as we have seen, the live geass is triggered when Suzaku is perceiving himself to be in danger of death or having doubts of living. Since Rolo stops his perception of time, he will not realise he is in danger and so the live command will likely not activate.