2012-06-10, 21:54 | Link #1241 |
Ava courtesy of patchy
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Because the world setting still has some connection with the original E7(scub coral and Eureka herself), although where they plan to bring the connection to is still anyone guess. It's like saying turn A gundam, V gundam, ad ZZ gundam don't deserve to be put in gundam UC timeline because Amuro, bright and the original Gundam cast don't appear, when the director himself(tomino) already said they are.
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2012-06-10, 22:07 | Link #1242 | |
Loves the Experience
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Earth...hopefully
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But with that said, as long as the sequel doesn't mess with the story of the first series whilst telling a new story in its place, I'm all for it. Sequels that tend to expand on previous stories don't really work for me. One reason Gundam fails so much is that it's just the same story over and over again. Natsume's sequels are good, but after the third season, it started to get really old because I felt like his story was completed with that third season. In my opinion, this series does everything a sequel should do. Tell a new story that doesn't mess with the original one, whilst keeping in spirit with the first series. And really, it doesn't have to keep in spirit with the first series that much. As much as I rag on the original E7 series, I do agree with the viewpoint that if you can't feel it in the sequel, then what's the point? But as I have said many times (including in my own blog), while it's different from the first series, it isn't THAT different. For a more literal example, Fate/Zero is completely different from Fate/Stay Night (and no, the fact that it's a prequel instead of a sequel doesn't excuse it from being the same as this anime is to E7), but it doesn't mess with the original series in any way. And that series wasn't even written by the creators. It's from Gen Urobuchi. Okay, Fate/Stay Night has the advantage of being a bad series while E7 wasn't, but that doesn't make much difference to me. For an actual sequel, there's Aquarion Evol. I never saw the original series, but from what I've heard, it was bad, so staying too close to the spirit of the original would have been stupid. The sequel is one of my favorite series of the year and I'm pretty sure that it's goofier than the first series as well. Okay, it's been getting some flak recently, but I still think it's great.
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Last edited by Flawfinder; 2012-06-10 at 22:20. |
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2012-06-10, 22:11 | Link #1243 | |
Seishu's Ace
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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As has been pointed out, what of the many other franchises which have sequels that have no characters in common at all, yet still share a name? We have a show here that's already featured one E7 character (three if you count Nirvash and type theEND) and may feature many more, as it's barely one/third complete. The unrealistic expectations of a direct, linear sequel came from fans, not BONES.
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2012-06-11, 03:15 | Link #1245 | ||
ロック・オン!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nizhny Novgorod, Russia
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What a successor indeed. That's already betrayal in my book - perhaps not to the logic, but to the idea. Quote:
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2012-06-11, 04:05 | Link #1247 | |
Ava courtesy of patchy
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Analogy wise, it's as if you say gundam seed destiny is a bad sequel to the original seed because athrun and cagalli seperated during the time skip due to some plot reason like they just grew apart even though in the original seed, they're implied to be together happily ever after(well, gsd is a bad sequel, but not for that reason). |
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2012-06-11, 04:25 | Link #1248 | |||||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Now of course the lore is tied into this show so far, but not in a really meaningful way yet, though that of course may change and I am waiting patiently for it to come about... However, from what I have seen so far I personally don't feel the show has benefited at all from being a "sequel." The fact that it's trying to tell its own story while relying so little on the older series just goes to show me that this is basically an entirely new anime in its own right. Is it a bad show? Hard for me to say at this juncture. Is it a good sequel? Heck no. It doesn't have to be completely direct, but it should have more tangible connections. That's all I'm saying, and this is very well my opinion on how a sequel should act. I gave my zeta gundam comparison earlier for what I thought was an ideal sequel in my eyes. Quote:
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Now of course if you disliked the original series for some franchise, and you liked the sequel, you're not going to have complaints. I think the issue here is when a fan who loved a series comes to a sequel that doesn't really feel like a sequel, regardless of whether it's more objectively good or bad. Quote:
First all of ZZ gundam actually picks up directly after Zeta Gundam. That's a direct linear sequel. Though in this case, that show was just bad because Tomino decided to change the tone of the series drastically (This wasn't long after Zeta finished airing, so it was definitely felt). Turn a Gundam really isn't a sequel honestly, and there's a lot of dispute about it. If anything its a sequel to many different timelines of Gundam, but it really isn't what I'd think is a UC timeline Gundam. Lastly, I haven't seen Victory Gundam so I can't comment on that. Anyways, as I said to Enzo my question was meant more specifically for Flawanalyst because he said he didn't care bout the original.
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2012-06-11, 05:10 | Link #1250 | ||
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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2012-06-11, 06:46 | Link #1251 | |
ロック・オン!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nizhny Novgorod, Russia
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It's a subjective thing on the level of feelings so I didn't let it get in the way of my giving this show a chance and I'm bringing this up now only because of everything else that rubs me in the wrong way about AO. Last edited by Daniel Lind; 2012-06-11 at 07:04. |
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2012-06-11, 08:41 | Link #1253 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2012
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However it never shied away from showing the realities of the world, and that love can't save everyone. It didn't save Ray and Charles, it didn't save that black girl, it didn't save all those people. Half of Renton's growth is accepting the harsh realities of the world. This includes all those sacrifices people had to make just so Eureka and Renton could end up together. Just because the show didn't focus on that bad shit to an extreme and didn't have Renton not accepting the bad shit that happened near the end doesn't mean it didn't happen. Really all this comes back to you whining that this is not Eureka 7 Destiny, the people behind this already stated that the sequel is not gonna carry over the same themes as the previous series and there's no written rule that states that a sequel has to follow the same themes as the original. |
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2012-06-11, 08:53 | Link #1255 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Which is the point. Your lovey dovey love conquers all ending didn't happened without thousands of innocent people dying in the process. The series was more of a coming of age story with Renton realizing the harsh realities of the world that it was about it's romance. There's meaning to Talho's words when Renton sorties out with the Nirvash one final time when she saids "He's surpassed us" at the end of the series.
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2012-06-11, 09:30 | Link #1256 |
Loves the Experience
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Earth...hopefully
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Oh right, I forgot about Fullmetal Alchemist. Aside from that series though, while I like stuff like Darker than Black, it had a bunch of wasted potential, even if they did sell well.
And yes, I get that if the sequel is an improvement on the original (this series isn't. I just like what it's doing more than the first one), then people won't complain too much. That's just a difference in opinion, but I've made it clear I'm open to sequels as long as it contains the criteria I mentioned earlier.
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2012-06-11, 11:20 | Link #1257 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2012
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2012-06-11, 11:39 | Link #1258 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
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2012-06-11, 16:28 | Link #1259 |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
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One interesting point to consider is since there have been staff changes (the writer is different right?), you can in fact consider it a different type of sequel altogether. If a different author writes a sequel to a book it probably won't be accepted by many fans. I'm waiting till the whole series is done before I come to any conclusions (I may like it and be fine with it as a 'spiritual successor' if nothing more...or I may hate it and pretend it doesn't exist, the original E7 however, still does!).
It's kind of the reason I'm not watching the series yet, I'd rather not be disappointed in real time week by week. I'd rather know if it's good (by your reactions) by the end, and ultimately judge it myself later when all the cards are on the table. My appreciation for AO, should it exist, would be shown with cold hard cash (I'd buy the dvds).
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2012-06-11, 16:54 | Link #1260 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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On a different note, I do wish people would stop using "that's what happens in real life" to defend things such as Renton and Eureka not being together, as if it's a blanket defense for any problem people might have with the series. This is not real life. This is a fictional story, a narrative, and these often have rules, conventions, etc that are different from reality - ones that can and should be played with, bent and broken on occasion, but others that it's generally a better idea to adhere to. And just saying "it's just what happens in real life, deal with it" doesn't necessarily excuse the breaking of certain of these conventions. I won't get into that more since it's a different subject, but as it applies to this show (even though it's still too early to know what the writers have done with this, so take this as a hypothetical), I can perfectly understand why people would be upset at Renton and Eureka having had their happy ending undone, if that is what happened. You see, you may not want emotionally-based criticism, but this is a TV anime, not, say, a college dissertation. People are going to, as they well should, have complaints about how a sequel "feels," especially if they had an emotional connection to the original. Don't automatically disparage that. As far as I'm concerned, breaking up Eurenton would be/is a very bad move. Many people became, or at least it was clearly the original show's intention for them to become, highly invested in that relationship: we watched them go through a ton of hard and painful times together, as well as some good ones, and that's what the eventual payoff of their happy ending feel so well-earned and satisfying. To take that conclusion, with all the time and care and buildup it took, and just casually decide to discard that, and offscreen for that matter, I find quite disrespectful. And in a way, it's a bigger 4th wall breaker than Elena could ever be, since it makes it seem like the writers are saying "We don't have any other ideas for this but we want money so we'll just go for the cheap drama of splitting up the main pair who got together in the last installment" (this is something Hollywood sequels have always been disappointingly fond of, as well). Well, reading over this I think this post makes me sound a lot more upset than I am I don't mean to sound that harsh on AO. I still look forward to it every week, and do enjoy it for the most part. I was pretty bummed about the seeming splitting of Eurenton at the beginning, but I've had time to cope and now I'm mostly just not digging the direction these past few episodes have taken, while waiting and having faith that it'll get better for me. Although, if Renton and Eureka really were apart, and don't get back together by the end of AO and thus re-establish their happy ending, then I'll be really annoyed. Last edited by Xagzan; 2012-06-11 at 17:12. |
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harem, mecha, romance, science fiction, shounen |
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