(L) Mushoku Tensei -Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu- [WN]

[Kaito Yamakage]

Originally Posted by FudgeNouget1

Red Gem...?
Also, I know Rudy didn't cry when he was born but does that necessarily make him a still born? (unless it was mentioned somewhere in the novel)

I think the reason babies have to cry was something out letting out something but since Rudy said "ah ah" or something when he was born, wouldn't that count as having done the function of crying?

Red Gem: it appears in volume 2, chapter 16? Young Lady is 10 years old:

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...Web_Chapter_16

Use search to find Red Gem in that chapter compare to image below then compare to plox.

Spoiler for More volume 16-17+ Heavy Spoilers:

Orsted experiences time loops. In all of the times he's experienced Rudeus Greyrat is dead. He was stillborn, that's why he didn't recognize Rudeus when they first met even though he recognized Eris/Rujierudo.

The other hint at it is when Kishirika looks at him and calls him disgusting though it's still not known if that was because she identified him as a stillborn corpse, his magic power, or some other thing she could see with her eyes. (She does mention the lines "it's that right, where it was a twin and one of them died on birth" which hints that she has come to the conclusion he was a twin and one died on birth or such things is why she thinks he's a walking corpse or something)


The Laplace Factor being the cause for his stillborn death is just my guess, nothing proven. Same as why he ended up being born in that specific body in general.

[Dormouse]

Originally Posted by Kaito Yamakage

Spoiler for More volume 16-17+ Heavy Spoilers:

Orsted experiences time loops. In all of the times he's experienced Rudeus Greyrat is dead. He was stillborn, that's why he didn't recognize Rudeus when they first met even though he recognized Eris/Rujierudo.

The other hint at it is when Kishirika looks at him and calls him disgusting though it's still not known if that was because she identified him as a stillborn corpse, his magic power, or some other thing she could see with her eyes. (She does mention the lines "it's that right, where it was a twin and one of them died on birth" which hints that she has come to the conclusion he was a twin and one died on birth or such things is why she thinks he's a walking corpse or something)


The Laplace Factor being the cause for his stillborn death is just my guess, nothing proven. Same as why he ended up being born in that specific body in general.

Doesn't that mean that

Spoiler:

He really is just some fat guy who stole someone else's life? If it was a stillborn, and then he jumped into the corpse, then isn't there a 'real' Rudeus Greyrat that already died?

[FudgeNouget1]

Originally Posted by Kaito Yamakage

Red Gem: it appears in volume 2, chapter 16? Young Lady is 10 years old:

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...Web_Chapter_16

Use search to find Red Gem in that chapter compare to image below then compare to plox.

Spoiler for More volume 16-17+ Heavy Spoilers:

Orsted experiences time loops. In all of the times he's experienced Rudeus Greyrat is dead. He was stillborn, that's why he didn't recognize Rudeus when they first met even though he recognized Eris/Rujierudo.

The other hint at it is when Kishirika looks at him and calls him disgusting though it's still not known if that was because she identified him as a stillborn corpse, his magic power, or some other thing she could see with her eyes. (She does mention the lines "it's that right, where it was a twin and one of them died on birth" which hints that she has come to the conclusion he was a twin and one died on birth or such things is why she thinks he's a walking corpse or something)


The Laplace Factor being the cause for his stillborn death is just my guess, nothing proven. Same as why he ended up being born in that specific body in general.

oh man, the hidden plot baits. Was the significance of the Red Gem explained?
Also, I'm new to the forum; can you explain what the Laplace Factor is?

[Waxman]

Oh, I though Kishirika called him disgusting because she could see his spirit/otaku body.

[Onizuka-GTO]

actually i think the body is still living because healing magic cannot be used on someone that is already dead.
Therefore, the reason paul and Zenith first child was born stillborn, because it did not have a soul to jump start the body.
Like a pc without the OS, its working fine, just that it can't function without it, hence the baby died.

So Rudeus soul just got installed into the body and hence in reality he's still alive biologically. Hence healing magic still works on him.

[Kaito Yamakage]

Originally Posted by Dormouse

Doesn't that mean that

Spoiler:

He really is just some fat guy who stole someone else's life? If it was a stillborn, and then he jumped into the corpse, then isn't there a 'real' Rudeus Greyrat that already died?

Spoiler for Volume 16-17=:

Rudeus Greyrat never existed as a person, Orsted plainly says "Paul Greyrat had two daughters but no son" so it was born, but it never had a "personality" so it's not really a case of taking over... But more like jumping into a lump of flesh and possessing it.

The specific details are still unknown though... the only thing we're sure on is that the person known as Rudeus Greyrat never existed in other histories.


Though I am of the opinion that his "body" is still the same unchanging fat guy similar to Nanahoshi, that would be why when he appears in the "void world" he takes on that form, and ends up feeling that "splintering" effect when he wakes up from the experiences with hitogami.

Those are more guesses on my end though and there's plenty of other possibilities. The experiences there are always referred to as "dreams" after all.


On the red gem end about the only details we've heard about it are that was some mysterious event made of more magic power than any being has (the amount of magic power the teleport incident took couldn't even be cast by Orsted so he refers to it as a natural disaster), and that it was related to the events at the end of volume 2/teleport incident/Nanahoshi's summoning.

As a side note, the red gem itself may have been some kind of magic crystal that spent 3 years gathering magic power and maintaining in order to cast that, but the caster is still unknown. <-- and that one is just another guess on my end.

Basically, it just means there's still lots of details missing and no one really has any clue what's going on...

Plenty of future developments still possible.

[Dormouse]

Originally Posted by Kaito Yamakage

Spoiler for Volume 16-17=:

Rudeus Greyrat never existed as a person, Orsted plainly says "Paul Greyrat had two daughters but no son" so it was born, but it never had a "personality" so it's not really a case of taking over... But more like jumping into a lump of flesh and possessing it.

The specific details are still unknown though... the only thing we're sure on is that the person known as Rudeus Greyrat never existed in other histories.


Though I am of the opinion that his "body" is still the same unchanging fat guy similar to Nanahoshi, that would be why when he appears in the "void world" he takes on that form, and ends up feeling that "splintering" effect when he wakes up from the experiences with hitogami.

Those are more guesses on my end though and there's plenty of other possibilities. The experiences there are always referred to as "dreams" after all.


On the red gem end about the only details we've heard about it are that was some mysterious event made of more magic power than any being has (the amount of magic power the teleport incident took couldn't even be cast by Orsted so he refers to it as a natural disaster), and that it was related to the events at the end of volume 2/teleport incident/Nanahoshi's summoning.

As a side note, the red gem itself may have been some kind of magic crystal that spent 3 years gathering magic power and maintaining in order to cast that, but the caster is still unknown. <-- and that one is just another guess on my end.

Spoiler:

In that case, in this universe a stillborn would probably something that was born without a soul in the first place, rather than a baby with a soul that ended up dying. Were this the case, then I guess souls are given to babies the moment they're born, or a little while before they're born.

I think it's an important distinction though, lol. And what do you "mean" by his "body"? Do you think that it came through as well, and ended up in the void world or something?

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

actually i think the body is still living because healing magic cannot be used on someone that is already dead.
Therefore, the reason paul and Zenith first child was born stillborn, because it did not have a soul to jump start the body.
Like a pc without the OS, its working fine, just that it can't function without it, hence the baby died.

So Rudeus soul just got installed into the body and hence in reality he's still alive biologically. Hence healing magic still works on him.

On the other hand, it could just be that it already had a soul, died, and because the body was still fresh and useable it was 'comatose' and sucked in fat guy's soul or something. Doesn't that happen in some manga?

[DeathMetalBunny]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

actually i think the body is still living because healing magic cannot be used on someone that is already dead.
Therefore, the reason paul and Zenith first child was born stillborn, because it did not have a soul to jump start the body.
Like a pc without the OS, its working fine, just that it can't function without it, hence the baby died.

So Rudeus soul just got installed into the body and hence in reality he's still alive biologically. Hence healing magic still works on him.

That... is actually a pretty damn great explanation. I'm going to go with that until proven otherwise.

[Okashira]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

actually i think the body is still living because healing magic cannot be used on someone that is already dead.
Therefore, the reason paul and Zenith first child was born stillborn, because it did not have a soul to jump start the body.
Like a pc without the OS, its working fine, just that it can't function without it, hence the baby died.

So Rudeus soul just got installed into the body and hence in reality he's still alive biologically. Hence healing magic still works on him.

This. There is absolutely nothing that points out that "the original" son of Paul was ever alive, for what we know Rudy's soul might have already been transfered to sperm

Speaking of, I hope Lala's nature gets touched soon. Tensei or not tensei?


It's completely obvious that the red gem is going to get explained when more red gems start popping up, and if as Nanahoshi suspects and is by "someone" other than Hitogami & Orsted, that's probably "end game" material and won't be explained in a long while.

[Kaito Yamakage]

Originally Posted by Dormouse

Spoiler:

In that case, in this universe a stillborn would probably something that was born without a soul in the first place, rather than a baby with a soul that ended up dying. Were this the case, then I guess souls are given to babies the moment they're born, or a little while before they're born.

I think it's an important distinction though, lol. And what do you "mean" by his "body"? Do you think that it came through as well, and ended up in the void world or something?

The void world is a place that exists and doesn't exist, no one has a way to get there, but they "pass through" when teleporting/transferring, etc... It's nothingness, mu.

There's one way said to get there and it's not a path that can be used currently, so any more detail on that is unknown.


This is why I still go with the matrix concept... There was never any "isekai" in the first place, they''re all actually in a top secret VRMMO/matrix world. And Rudeus is Neo. The real evil is the God of our world who has trapped all of the superficial gods/otherworldly people into the other matrix like world. Lol.

^ Completely made up.

[Dormouse]

Originally Posted by Okashira

This. There is absolutely nothing that points out that "the original" son of Paul was ever alive, for what we know Rudy's soul might have already been transfered to sperm

So you're suggesting

#1:
MC soul enters sperm → in utero growth period → birth = timeline where 'Rudeus Greyrat' never died in the first place

over

#2: True Rudeus' soul enters body → in utero growth period → in utero death → MC's soul enters before body dies → birth = timeline where the original soul left, but whose body was taken over by MC because it was useable

and

#3: In utero growth period (soulless) → MC's soul enters, whereas in other timelines nothing did → birth = timeline where the body was bestowed a soul and hence lived

If you're wondering why I'm fussing over such a minor detail, it's because it spells the difference between MC deserving that family and everything else he got, and the MC scavenging these scraps of happiness from someone else who left them behind on the dinner table.

[Kerfirou]

Originally Posted by Dormouse

What part of 'extender' don't you understand? It was made because salt was expensive, so they needed a filler. It's like hazelnut for chocolate.

And he's not Thai or Vietnamese. I've never heard of Japanese people eating fish sauce. And yes, it sounds like it'd be harder getting the right fish and fermenting it the right way than doing so for soy beans.

Ah, so that's what you mean. Sorry, I read too fast. But I don't think Sushi and/or sashimi with just some salt combined with other thing will be quite right. Soy sauce just has that delicious nutty and umami overtone, you know?

I think his reaction to that salt sauce will be the same as to the rice.

[Okashira]

Originally Posted by Dormouse

If you're wondering why I'm fussing over such a minor detail, it's because it spells the difference between MC deserving that family and everything else he got, and the MC scavenging these scraps of happiness from someone else who left them behind on the dinner table.

This was actually brought up at one point (I think that it was when Orsted mentioned that whenever he is "born", he kills the soul of the host); inso far, everything points out to Rudeus existence being "natural" and not having "displaced" other soul (using Krishina's dialog to deny this lacks impact, as she corrected her stand on that very same meeting. One of the reasons she made that statement was because his "MP" was beyond what a single person has, it wasn't an argument about "nature of the soul").

Of course that conclusion didn't came from who reincarnated Rudeus, so it can be debatable, but considering the style of writing on the story so far, bottom line is that the "positive option" is the most likely.

The reason of why Rudy can't use Fighting spirit / Battle aura, is because the "known method" of mastering it is first "manifest it", then "identifying the flow" and then "calling it forth consciously". Rudy has learned fine control of the flow of his magic since early age thanks to his training; there it was "no time" for his flow to "develop naturally" and develop characteristics outside his knowledge, he basically had complete control of his growth, and that's why he doest have any "innate talent"; everything that he has is the product of grinding and his usage logic; if something goes beyond that, he can't do it.

Speaking of, couldn't he use battle aura it in the future?

[Dormouse]

Originally Posted by Kerfirou

Ah, so that's what you mean. Sorry, I read too fast. But I don't think Sushi and/or sashimi with just some salt combined with other thing will be quite right. Soy sauce just has that delicious nutty and umami overtone, you know?

I think his reaction to that salt sauce will be the same as to the rice.

My point wasn't that he should just use salt on sashimi lol. It was that the original soy sauce came about incredibly easily, so as long as he isn't too picky about how it comes out, he can just mix salt, soy beans, wheat and some mould lol.

As long as he plays around with the proportions and the type of mould, he'll eventually end up with something resembling his desired taste. Well, the problem is obtaining the soy beans though...

/srsdiscussion

EDIT: Also unrelated, but I'm surprised noone has told me off yet for my antics on the rego page lol.

EDIT: Maybe he can't use touki because he's a sissy that hates fighting, trololol. Neither Laplaces could use touki either, right?

[kazzuya]

I think the reason that Rudy can't use Fighting spirit is because his body and Soul are not completely in equilibrium because he is not the original owner of the body.

[Nihgthawk]

Originally Posted by kazzuya

I think the reason that Rudy can't use Fighting spirit is because his body and Soul are not completely in equilibrium because he is not the original owner of the body.

Think Captain Ginyu in Goku's body after the body switch. He can use the body and even access the energy but is not able to bring out all of its capabilities thou with time he could have accessed at least all of the power but not all of the techniques.

[Riz]

Spoiler for women talks:

Inside the bedroom on the second floor of Rudeus' house.
On top of the big bed, three women were sitting face-to-face to another, having nothing other than the nightgowns they were wearing.
"Then, we will begin the Greyrat house's 26th regular meeting. Applause."
In response to the white short cut haired woman's words, the blue haired woman was clapping her hands.
The red haired woman followed the applause with a serious face while sitting in seiza.[3]
Simplified for one person, to the woman it felt like only a few years have passed, but, to put it into words, there was a need to be careful or else the master of Rudeus' house will become as angry as a great demon god.[4]

this is Rudy's idea right? he make his wifes got influenze(?) right?.


also,
does eris also working for household in 'Rudo Mercenaries' in the future with aisha and her(Eris)'s pets?

[Kaito Yamakage]

Originally Posted by Riz

Spoiler for women talks:

Inside the bedroom on the second floor of Rudeus' house.
On top of the big bed, three women were sitting face-to-face to another, having nothing other than the nightgowns they were wearing.
"Then, we will begin the Greyrat house's 26th regular meeting. Applause."
In response to the white short cut haired woman's words, the blue haired woman was clapping her hands.
The red haired woman followed the applause with a serious face while sitting in seiza.[3]
Simplified for one person, to the woman it felt like only a few years have passed, but, to put it into words, there was a need to be careful or else the master of Rudeus' house will become as angry as a great demon god.[4]

this is Rudy's idea right? he make his wifes got influenze(?) right?.


also,
does eris also working for household in 'Rudo Mercenaries' in the future with aisha and her(Eris)'s pets?

You might think that, but it was originally

Spoiler for spoiler:

started by Sylphy talking to Roxy and discussing things about Rudeus like the days they would "share" him and other things. Then after Eris it came it turned into a drinking party.

Eris is pregnant right now and the Rudo Mercs are new so it's still unknown.

Around that time the main plox had a "Men's Drinking Party" chapter as well, with Zanoba, Cliff, and Rudeus. The Girls version was like a side story at the same time.

[PuddingGod]

Originally Posted by Okashira

The reason of why Rudy can't use Fighting spirit / Battle aura, is because the "known method" of mastering it is first "manifest it", then "identifying the flow" and then "calling it forth consciously". Rudy has learned fine control of the flow of his magic since early age thanks to his training; there it was "no time" for his flow to "develop naturally" and develop characteristics outside his knowledge, he basically had complete control of his growth, and that's why he doest have any "innate talent"; everything that he has is the product of grinding and his usage logic; if something goes beyond that, he can't do it.

This makes the most sense.

[Riz]

Originally Posted by Kaito Yamakage

You might think that, but it was originally

Spoiler for spoiler:

started by Sylphy talking to Roxy and discussing things about Rudeus like the days they would "share" him and other things. Then after Eris it came it turned into a drinking party.

Eris is pregnant right now and the Rudo Mercs are new so it's still unknown.

Around that time the main plox had a "Men's Drinking Party" chapter as well, with Zanoba, Cliff, and Rudeus. The Girls version was like a side story at the same time.

no, I mean the meeting it self was Rudy influenze right? cuz he always propost to do dat in the past..

so~~
if Eris doesnt pregnant, she'll became VP Rudo Mercs ?

also, Kaito, someone seem messin around with WN 106-107....