AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Retired M-Z > Nanoha/Vivid Franchise

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-03-09, 14:45   Link #1021
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Yeah, but that's not a good thing. Fans have a bad habit of ignoring what they don't like or claim that a fandom preference is 'better.'

If Curren is the official spelling, then that means everyone should spell it that way. If they don't, they're just flat out wrong.
Yep. It's like trying to claim canon discontinuity on Signum's beating at the hands of Cypha xDDD(i've already tried xDU).

Page claimed for good old Signum(and yes, i like to claim pages for her xD).
__________________
May 29 2010-2019

...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 15:52   Link #1022
00-Raiser
Burst Mode
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Age: 37
Send a message via AIM to 00-Raiser
Sure, I'm guilty of some fandom discontinuity myself (Alien 3, Love Never Dies), but I do know that it's silly on my part and it doesn't change that those things happened.
__________________
00-Raiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 15:57   Link #1023
itanshi1
Writer, Jester, MtG nerd
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!
Send a message via AIM to itanshi1 Send a message via MSN to itanshi1
:3 different director, who committed the discontinuity?

Haha sorry, I'm with you on Alien 3
__________________
For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you.

Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.
itanshi1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 16:20   Link #1024
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
Same here for Alien 3. That poor little girl. ;_;
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 17:59   Link #1025
Tiresias
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Yeah, but that's not a good thing. Fans have a bad habit of ignoring what they don't like or claim that a fandom preference is 'better.'

If Curren is the official spelling, then that means everyone should spell it that way. If they don't, they're just flat out wrong.
Raising Heart, Thoma, Midget, Stern the Destructor, Levi the Slasher, "Load" Dearche...and now Curren? GAH! *still nauseous at the idea of sparkling Hucks*

And if we must follow the vehicular themes, wouldn't it mean that we're gonna have to start calling Yuuno "Euno"?
__________________

Last edited by Tiresias; 2011-03-09 at 18:19. Reason: Thoma it is, then...
Tiresias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 18:07   Link #1026
00-Raiser
Burst Mode
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Age: 37
Send a message via AIM to 00-Raiser
It's Thoma, actually.

As for Yuuno, though, official sources do say otherwise: http://www.nanoha.com/archive3/character/yuuno.html

Anyways, I suppose using fan prefered names is okay so long as the person admits that they're incorrect.
__________________
00-Raiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 18:32   Link #1027
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
I hope FORCE didn't get enoug "real robot" like to not show a combined attack, it will be all kinds of awesome to see a Main cast powered Starlight Breaker defeating a Big Bad xD

Nanoha: "The light of everyone's hopes and wishes will bring the miracle that will change destiny ....receive those feelings! DIVINE STARLIGHT BREAKEEEEEER!!!!!"
__________________
May 29 2010-2019

...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 18:49   Link #1028
00-Raiser
Burst Mode
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Age: 37
Send a message via AIM to 00-Raiser
Combo attacks are hardly super robot exclusive. Observe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULD3rQ3wO7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZHbm3IIPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XKN-onmrc

There are real robots perfectly capable of destroying the universe like any super.

Nanoha was always 'real robot' anyways. The magic girls aren't unique, they're standardized military personel.
__________________
00-Raiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 19:09   Link #1029
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Nanoha was always 'real robot' anyways. The magic girls aren't unique, they're standardized military personel.
Except for instances like Super Prototypes and unique models like the Book of Darkness or the Nakajima Sisters, or Sankt Kaiser Vivio. In fact most lost logias count as super weapons. Even the more realistic Huckebein are insainely overpowered xDU.

also i was talking more about an "All your powers combined" kind of attack, everyone's power merged into a single ultimate move.
__________________
May 29 2010-2019

...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 19:15   Link #1030
00-Raiser
Burst Mode
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Age: 37
Send a message via AIM to 00-Raiser
You can have super weapons in real robot contexts too. The basic difference between Real and Super robots is that in real robot shows, the robots are standardized military hardware.
__________________
00-Raiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 19:21   Link #1031
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
Remember this: the show that made "real robot" popular, Mobile Suit Gundam, had more Super Robot tropes in it than most modern real robot shows.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 19:29   Link #1032
00-Raiser
Burst Mode
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Age: 37
Send a message via AIM to 00-Raiser
I know, but the defining difference with Gundam was how the robots were treated. They were just pieces of military hardware like any tank. Whereas Super Robots are treated as, well, Super Heroes rather than soldiers.

From an Earthly perspective, sure, Nanoha mages would be seen as more 'super robot'ish, but to Mid Childa, mages are an everyday thing.
__________________
00-Raiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 19:39   Link #1033
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
You can have super weapons in real robot contexts too. The basic difference between Real and Super robots is that in real robot shows, the robots are standardized military hardware.
I thinked the main difference is that Real robot actually try to explain how the mecha works, having limited supplies, interchangeable parts and the like. while super Robot just make a brief explanation(with some sort of mistical/spiritual connection) stablishing that the will of the pilot also have something to do with the robot's efficiency and just go with it.

SRW is interesting because it mixes the two concepts with real robots(Gespenst and the lion series, for example), Ace models(Weissritter) and just plain evident Super Robots(Soulgain, The Choukijin), with a few that mix aspects from both concepts(Alt Eisen, seriously).

S1 and A's feel more like Super while StrikerS put the orientation more to Real Robots and FORCE is apparenbtly trying to cimient what StrikerS has started, it's still soon to state for sure if super robot tropes will return but for now we have runnin out ammo, flawed prototypes, aces slaughtered and "magic" stopped being a matter or will and guts to become simple "fuel".
__________________
May 29 2010-2019

...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 19:50   Link #1034
00-Raiser
Burst Mode
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Age: 37
Send a message via AIM to 00-Raiser
Not necessarily. While real robot shows do tend to be more hard sci-fi and supers more soft sci-fi, supers do explain things, like with Photon Energy or Getter Rays. Likewise, reals can be just as vauge about how stuff works.

In OG, at least, super robots like the Grungust and the SRX aren't true supers since they're still factory produced. They're just called super robots in series. Stuff like Ryukouoh (magical chinese animal mecha) and Compatible Kaiser (extradimensional, beefed up in grandpa's basement) are more true super robots.

S1 and A's are definitely more like traditional 'super' magic girl animes with the focus being on a few individuals. Then StrikerS made things be more formal and procedural, with focus on working within a system. That's certainly more like a 'real' magic girl.

Anyways, the point is that even if Nanoha has become more 'real', it doesn't mean it can't still utilize the 'super' elements from the first two seasons.

Though perhaps the true shift is the 'hardening' of the sci-fi elements.
__________________
00-Raiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 20:00   Link #1035
Justin_Brett
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
I'd say you're very wrong about the girls not being unique, Raiser. If it takes personally being trained by Nanoha and Fate to learn their moves, they're arguably in a class of their own. And Hayate, well, nothing she does is really 'real'.

That isn't to say Real Robots can't have ridiculous weapons to them too, though. I've been playing J lately, and the Layzner's strongest attack is to glow really bright and ram into the enemy at top speed. You also got the Justice and Freedom Gundams, which are pretty self-explanatory.

Also, Getter Rays are not well-defined at all. That's their point.
Justin_Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 20:07   Link #1036
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
That isn't to say Real Robots can't have ridiculous weapons to them too, though. I've been playing J lately, and the Layzner's strongest attack is to glow really bright and ram into the enemy at top speed. You also got the Justice and Freedom Gundams, which are pretty self-explanatory.
Also don't forget Gundam WING, on the first half of the series all five gundams were ridiculously powerfull to the point that they apparently had the power to make regular mecha blow up just by appearing in front of them xDU.

Yeah, it's not impossible to bring super robot tropes back in a more realistic setting but while in StrikerS they were the famous aces with the collective power to obliterate an army(i'm not making this up the manga states that xDU), here in FORCE they get reduced to a bunch of generic soldiers slected to test flawed equipement xDU.
__________________
May 29 2010-2019

...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-09, 20:09   Link #1037
00-Raiser
Burst Mode
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Age: 37
Send a message via AIM to 00-Raiser
I meant 'unique' in the sense that they weren't the only one who had magic powers. We thought they were at first, but then we learn there's a whole intergalactic society where most common folk can use magic.

Within the context of that society, the Aces certainly are special, but their base abilities are common. Ie., the Gundam being a robot isn't special because there are plenty of robots around. The Gundam being more powerful than all those other robots (until the Gelgoog shows up) does make it stand out, though.
__________________
00-Raiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-10, 02:26   Link #1038
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not much of a mecha expert, but aren't the various super robot universes also filled with many robots, and the only thing that makes the super robot 'super' is that it has unique capabilities that set it far apart from the usual?
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-10, 03:13   Link #1039
Tempy
Σ(。д°(o--(ಠ益ಠ )
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hotsprings Resort
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not much of a mecha expert, but aren't the various super robot universes also filled with many robots, and the only thing that makes the super robot 'super' is that it has unique capabilities that set it far apart from the usual?
It is true that in mecha shows, the protagonist's (or more) mecha is unique from the mooks and the common robot. However, not all mecha are Super.

In a universe such as Gundam, the Real Robot aspect kicks in. Gundam is a Real Robot, as its superiority / power is based on technology; its weapon is battleship-class firepower, giving the pilot heavy firepower on a small, compact scale, and its beam saber was vastly superior to any other melee weapon at the time. Later on, the enemy's technology development caught up to the RX-78's level, so battles became a contest of pilot skill. Anyone can hop in; it's how good they are that makes the difference.

In contrast, a Super Robot's power comes partially technology, but also from the pilot's own will. An example would be Gurren Lagann, whose power level increased from hotblood and rage. No matter how far technology develops, a Super Robot's strength can and will grow beyond next-gen stuff by sheer willpower from its pilot. In other words, a unique pilot for a unique robot.

TL;DR : Real robots use tech. Super robots thrive on HOTBLOOD.

Though, it can hit a point where real and super mesh together into a single indistinguishable setting, kinda like tech and magic. The Nanoha series seems to such a case--though it leans heavily on the super side later on in the series--a combination of high tech and Befriending that instills a fear of pink lasers in everyone. The writer loves SRW, after all. An example of Real is the cartridge system. In A's, we start off already knowing that Nanoha and Fate are crazy powerful... and they get their butts whipped by the Wolkenritter. Upon acquiring a piece of uncommon but not uniquely rare upgrade, they gain equal footing.

Cut to StrikerS and wtf they're so powerful how did this happen?! Hard work and willpower. Now the Aces are so powerful that gathering them all together in one spot threatens the time-space continuum and necessitates limiters for everyone.
__________________

Last edited by Tempy; 2011-03-10 at 03:27. Reason: What time is it? 3:30am? Brain is fried.
Tempy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-10, 03:55   Link #1040
LoweGear
Secret Society BLANKET
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
Nitpick:

Not all mecha with willpower-derived performance are Supers though. The Lambda Driver in FMP is a most blatant example, yet no one labels the Arbalest or the Laevatein as "Super". And Dai-Guard is a mecha as down-to-earth as it gets (duct tape man, duct tape), and yet it's considered a "Super Robot" despite the fact that it'll logically lose to just about a whole gamut of reals in a technology and power contest. It all comes down to the treatment of the mecha in-universe really, though even that tend to blur the line between the two.
__________________

Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.

Last edited by LoweGear; 2011-03-10 at 04:53.
LoweGear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
manga, nanoha force

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.