[Manga] Chapter 521 Discussion

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Seven swordsmen of the mist is a group Kishi loves throwing around here and there (although this one doesn't have his sword anymore, heh). Also Zabuza is one of the few sane villains in Naruto, so maybe he can help Kakashi&co figure out how to break Edo Tensei without going through every ninja's emotional problems.

None of this answers my question.

Who care what Kishi likes to throw around?

I doubt the second part, especially when he's under mind control. And it has nothing to do with him fighting Kakashi.

[ronin myael]

well, whatever it is it'll have to wait until january. no manga chapters til then.

[Kafriel]

Who care what Kishi likes to throw around?

It is because they are thrown around that they make an interesting sub-plot, so people care about them.

I doubt the second part, especially when he's under mind control.

He is not a complete zombie yet.

And it has nothing to do with him fighting Kakashi.

He doesn't want to fight, breaking the technique is their common goal, and they have an understanding of each other from their previous engagement.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

It is because they are thrown around that they make an interesting sub-plot, so people care about them.

No, it's because something is genuinely fascinating and has some actual effect on the plot that makes it interesting. The Seven Swordsmen, while a neat idea, has gone absolutely nowhere. What's more, I fail to see what any of this has to do with the Kakashi/Zabuza rematch.

Do you know anything about storytelling?

He is not a complete zombie yet.

You mean he's not under mind control? That's the impression I got from the last panel.

He doesn't want to fight, breaking the technique is their common goal, and they have an understanding of each other from their previous engagement.

So in other words it makes this whole process easier? I thought the point of them fighting the zombies was to have epic battles? This whole Edo Tensei zombie ressurection thing, a terrible idea to begin with, has turned into a fucking mess.

[antjluc]

I wonder when Kabuto used some type of jutsu on Anko was he able to obtain some power from her to reinforce the Edo Tensi?

[ronin myael]

refresh my memory people. i first read about the zabuza storyline some ten years ago so my memory is hazy. but wasn't he a bad guy? he was a wanted criminal in his own village for killing numerous people. he was a bloodthirsty killer so to speak. then how come in his zombie form he begs kakashi to stop them from killing people? was he truly disgusted about the idea of killing or just the fact that he was being made to do it? but then again, he was also a hired assassin who killed for money. so why beg kakashi to stop them? just doesn't make sense to me considering zabuza's nature. is it possible that zombie zabuza is actually more morally sane?

[antjluc]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

refresh my memory people. i first read about the zabuza storyline some ten years ago so my memory is hazy. but wasn't he a bad guy? he was a wanted criminal in his own village for killing numerous people. he was a bloodthirsty killer so to speak. then how come in his zombie form he begs kakashi to stop them from killing people? was he truly disgusted about the idea of killing or just the fact that he was being made to do it? but then again, he was also a hired assassin who killed for money. so why beg kakashi to stop them? just doesn't make sense to me considering zabuza's nature. is it possible that zombie zabuza is actually more morally sane?

He knew he died and he was killing for his own reason whether de facto of the Mist or for money, I believe he doesn't want to be control, but he know he is alive/fighting against his will.

[Kafriel]

I wonder when Kabuto used some type of jutsu on Anko was he able to obtain some power from her to reinforce the Edo Tensi?

That's what I understood from it...

then how come in his zombie form he begs kakashi to stop them from killing people? was he truly disgusted about the idea of killing or just the fact that he was being made to do it? but then again, he was also a hired assassin who killed for money. so why beg kakashi to stop them? just doesn't make sense to me considering zabuza's nature. is it possible that zombie zabuza is actually more morally sane?

I believe it's because he isn't doing it by his own will, who would want to be used as a tool for another man's war anyway?

Do you know anything about storytelling?

As a matter of fact, yes I do. Not that it matters to you anyway.

have some actual effect on the plot that makes them interesting.

Which would be nothing at ALL. Fascinating, that they are, but their contribution to the plot has been near-zero, the only thing ever to happen being Suigetsu following Sasuke, and he is nowhere to be seen atm. Mizukage's bodyguard is one - so what? Kisame was one too - just a brief exchange with Suigetsu, again...and that would be all.

You mean he's not under mind control? That's the impression I got from the last panel.

Emphasis on complete.

I thought the point of them fighting the zombies was to have epic battles?

Um, no? The epic level is for the fights of Madara and Kabuto, and maaaaybe the 100k Zetsulings, the others are just there to fill the pages and make some drama, although that doesn't stop them from having a clever fight or two...but epic ones? For mooks? God forbid.

[antjluc]

I wonder how long we have to wait to see Sasuke spam his EMS...honestly I'm curious to see the Zetsu army fight.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by antjluc

I wonder how long we have to wait to see Sasuke spam his EMS...honestly I'm curious to see the Zetsu army fight.

To me... it will not have any effect, because they will face another army and it will be like any other battle between huge armies (LOTR Style), so the Allies are plot protected and thus, they will win.

The big shots will be the fights between the zombies and the bunch of our well-known heroes.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Remind me again why we should care about Kakashi having a rematch with someone he defeated three years ago?

The same reason you'd like chocolate over vanilla. No genuine reason. It's all down to personal taste. I suppose some just find it interesting what rematch will be like. Others respect the level of depth and care he shows to even the most minor fights and characters. Why you find it inetersting will depnd on what you're looking for. Kafriel likes it because he like the Seven Swordsmen in the Mist and thinks this might be relevant to the overall plot. Not enitrely unfounded since the last fight that everyone at first believed would simply be fodder bashing, turned out to reveal a flaw in the Zombie jutsu that will obviously prove to be important, and, against all expectations, a victory for the good guys.

Also. Did anyone seriously lol when Zabuza said "Except for me..."

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Remind me again why we should care about Kakashi having a rematch with someone he defeated three years ago?

Honestly though, this was a relatively inoffensive chapter.

It's quite simple really. Kishimoto wanted to show us the...whatever you want to call the final panel image...the "conversion" (?), as Kabuto upp'd the ante, and changes the Edo Tensei. But, Kishimoto did not want to use any of the unknown zombies, or the emotionally relavent zombies (Asuma, Dan, Neji's dad, etc). So, he used a zombie that would know a main character, be able to communicate with a main character, and someone that the audience would be able to see a difference in after the "conversion" (by comparing how the character acted before and after the "conversion").

[antjluc]

Originally Posted by Haak

Also. Did anyone seriously lol when Zabuza said "Except for me..."

LMFAO i was crying Zabuza made a funny...hilarious lol.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

refresh my memory people. i first read about the zabuza storyline some ten years ago so my memory is hazy. but wasn't he a bad guy? he was a wanted criminal in his own village for killing numerous people. he was a bloodthirsty killer so to speak. then how come in his zombie form he begs kakashi to stop them from killing people? was he truly disgusted about the idea of killing or just the fact that he was being made to do it? but then again, he was also a hired assassin who killed for money. so why beg kakashi to stop them? just doesn't make sense to me considering zabuza's nature. is it possible that zombie zabuza is actually more morally sane?

-Its probably because he made peace with himself all those years ago thanks to Naruto's first steps in Narutoism. Zabuza was one of those villains that made it clear to all those around him and those that followed him that he did not care for them. Unlike those of Orochimaru and Madara's lot, Zabuza never used any trickery/manipulation to gain his followers. However, the fact that Naruto was able to bring him to tears over Haku's death (something which he claimed as irrelevant), indicated that really he was not able to kill his heart as much as he would have thought. Since he was brought back to life at the time of his death, it is possible that his mindset reflects his state from that very moment so he appears more morally sound than before.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Haak

Also. Did anyone seriously lol when Zabuza said "Except for me..."

Zabuza's casual attitude in general was funny

I also liked it when he took the time--while in the middle of battle-- to ask freaked-out Sakura if Naruto was doing alright and she replied "Um...yeah"

BTW, I think we're all guessing none of those Zetsus Neji's group attacked was killed, right?

[Kafriel]

^ Yeah, undead army must be followed by undead or very resilient flora, otherwise it would be a waste of chakra.

[DeDe]

We should be getting a a spoiler and chapter next week as usual. Shueisha always ships early because of the break. At least that is how it has always worked. We always got a leaked chapter before Christmas.

Next week should be the infamous cliffhanger chapter. So things should look bad for the Alliance. The zombies will likely now own. The Zetsu army will cream Div 2 and 5 in order to establish they are a threat. And Kishi will setup the next zombie fights. We haven't even seen Div 4 or 1 yet.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I also liked it when he took the time--while in the middle of battle-- to ask freaked-out Sakura if Naruto was doing alright and she replied "Um...yeah"

I find it interesting than neither of them asked about Sasuke. But then I remembered that they think he is dead. Sasuke didn't wake up until later.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

refresh my memory people. i first read about the zabuza storyline some ten years ago so my memory is hazy. but wasn't he a bad guy? he was a wanted criminal in his own village for killing numerous people. he was a bloodthirsty killer so to speak. then how come in his zombie form he begs kakashi to stop them from killing people? was he truly disgusted about the idea of killing or just the fact that he was being made to do it? but then again, he was also a hired assassin who killed for money. so why beg kakashi to stop them? just doesn't make sense to me considering zabuza's nature. is it possible that zombie zabuza is actually more morally sane?

I think you have forgotten the fact that Zabuza was the first brainwashed guy by Naruto...
He became quiet sentimental and sensitive during his last moments of life...


Besides I don't think that he likes the idea of being forced to do something against his will... and he is not payed anymore

[Jaiven]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Seven swordsmen of the mist is a group Kishi loves throwing around here and there (although this one doesn't have his sword anymore, heh). Also Zabuza is one of the few sane villains in Naruto, so maybe he can help Kakashi&co figure out how to break Edo Tensei without going through every ninja's emotional problems.

I agree. zabuza and haku will help kakashi find a way to break the edo tensei. But i dont think the other two ninjas will follow.

if that doesnt happen, kakashi will definitely find some clues on how the edo tensei works.

[Fran~]

You guys are missing one point... Kabuto just release the Killing-mode... there is no choice for them to even talk, they now are killing machines. Which i think is way more clever than some lame chat...

this must be a fight fair and square.