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Old 2012-04-20, 12:11   Link #8101
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
You really don't like Kumagawa all that much, do you?
Neh he's a great character, I love him for what he is, but let's not sweep under the carpet his flaws. He's a maginificent bastard but still a bit of a bastard.
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Old 2012-04-20, 12:18   Link #8102
FFXFan13
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Neh he's a great character, I love him for what he is, but let's not sweep under the carpet his flaws. He's a maginificent bastard but still a bit of a bastard.
That's what makes him such a good character though.
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Old 2012-04-20, 12:27   Link #8103
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Medaka HATED Kumagawa until the end of the minus 13 arc, even then after that she kept him around as part of her helping humanity experiment, and showed little more affection to him than Akune until that casual marriage remark. Consistent that AIN'T. Especially considering Kumagawa was more than willing to kill everyone she ever cared about or at least cripple them to a ridiculous degree that they may as well be dead and didn't repent at all.

Such consistent writing that would be.
Heh. The point of Medaka's marriage remark to Kumagawa wasn't "affection", it was respect. Which is one thing Kumagawa has always had the edge over Zen on. Medaka returned Kumagawa's initial "I loved/hated you, now and long ago" because she acknowledged that he is strong (in both character and ability). This is the same justification behind her inviting Kumagawa for her Black Wedding Feast excursion, and the same motive behind her saying she would acknowledge Kumagawa if he had a romantic interest in her. Zenkichi, by comparison, has been seen for most of Medaka's life as someone she needs to protect, and whose independence she only respected because she knew that was important to Zenkichi himself. As a romantic interest, Medaka is lowering herself to meet Zen (even if Zen has a lot of importance to Medaka for non-romantic reasons). However, as for Kumagawa, Medaka genuinely acknowledges him as an equal.
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Old 2012-04-20, 12:28   Link #8104
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
That's what makes him such a good character though.
And I never said he wasn't, I was just pointing out some his flaws which would make Medaka falling in love with him currently not seem very consistent. In the future maybe if there's sufficient character development for both of their characters but not currently.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Heh. The point of Medaka's marriage remark to Kumagawa wasn't "affection", it was respect. Which is one thing Kumagawa has always had the edge over Zen on. Medaka returned Kumagawa's initial "I loved/hated you, now and long ago" because she acknowledged that he is strong (in both character and ability). This is the same justification behind her inviting Kumagawa for her Black Wedding Feast excursion, and the same motive for her acknowledging Kumagawa's romantic interest in her. Zenkichi, by comparison, has been seen for most of Medaka's life as someone she needs to protect, and whose independence she only respected because she knew he wanted to prove himself to her. As a romantic interest, Medaka is lowering herself to meet Zen (even if Zen has a lot of importance to Medaka for non-romantic reasons). However, as for Kumagawa, Medaka genuinely acknowledges him as an equal.
Actually your also missing the point. Medaka was enamoured by Zenkichi's ability to guide people something she see's as a phenomenon, he was doing that for her all along she just didn't need it. It's pretty obvious Medaka enjoys "competing" with Zenkichi more than anyone else, she saw his potential and that was proven right when he was the only person that managed to defeat her but also the only person that truly cared about her. Kumagawa does also kinda care it's just extremely twisted.
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Old 2012-04-20, 13:00   Link #8105
Sol Falling
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Actually your also missing the point. Medaka was enamoured by Zenkichi's ability to guide people something she see's as a phenomenon, he was doing that for her all along she just didn't need it. It's pretty obvious Medaka enjoys "competing" with Zenkichi more than anyone else, she saw his potential and that was proven right when he was the only person that managed to defeat her but also the only person that truly cared about her. Kumagawa does also kinda care it's just extremely twisted.
I don't think Kumagawa's care for Medaka is particularly twisted, he's just used to losing. Accordingly, he hasn't really made a move on Medaka up to now. There's also the issue that it appears to some degree that Kumagawa is considerate of Zen's feelings, so he may not be willing to outright step to the front of the line in contending for Medaka. Because Kumagawa is an "ally of the weak", he wouldn't do something like irreversibly trampling on another person's feelings.

Medaka is obviously dependent on Zen for certain emotional reasons (i.e. she believes things like "He's the only one who would never leave me alone", etc.) but I wouldn't take Medaka's words regarding "competing" with Zen as especially meaningful. Part of Medaka's humility is that she's always respecting and thinking highly of others; you can find similar statements by Medaka about "the strongest person I know", etc. about Akune. Medaka simply enjoys/admires people's independence and strength in general; in a way, Akune and Zenkichi's growth away from their worship and dependence on Medaka is a reflection of what Zenkichi lead for the rest of the entire student body.
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Old 2012-04-20, 14:14   Link #8106
Clarste
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I'm pretty sure Medaka would've casually proposed marriage to any number of people who she respects. Akune, Hinokage, probably Zenkichi of course after his election victory. I wouldn't take the line too seriously as "shipping" between Medaka and Kumagawa.

Last edited by Clarste; 2012-04-20 at 14:53.
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Old 2012-04-20, 15:01   Link #8107
FFXFan13
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I'm pretty sure Medaka would've casually proposed marriage to any number of people who she respects. Akune, Hinokage, probably Zenkichi of course after his election victory. I wouldn't take the line too seriously as "shipping" between Medaka and Kumagawa.
Not serious shipping, no. But it's a nice gesture of respect, and a sign that the relationship between the two has gotten better.
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Old 2012-04-20, 15:40   Link #8108
Kamuui
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Provide examples than, loads of them.

As for your "excuse", explain this too.

1st Poll

Zen - 554
Munakata - 323

2nd Poll

Zen - 672
Munakata - 807

You can say Zen was treated like a side character and barely had any importance in that arc even though it's flat out untrue.. but Kei wasn't even in that arc period and had a near 500 jump in votes.

EDIT - A lot of these votes would've been based off the MINUS ARC, not the NotEquals arc, think of the timeframe and don't forget that TOC votes themselves are 8 weeks back.

Well, at least Zenkichi, is first among the four best fights of the series (although also be Kumagawa).
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Old 2012-04-20, 16:22   Link #8109
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I'm pretty sure Medaka would've casually proposed marriage to any number of people who she respects. Akune, Hinokage, probably Zenkichi of course after his election victory. I wouldn't take the line too seriously as "shipping" between Medaka and Kumagawa.
Possibly. Rather than Akune or Hinokage, though, the first other candidate I would think of is Miyakonojou. The first factor in Medaka throwing out that statement like that was that she was responding to Kumagawa's confession/statement of romantic interest. This cuts out Hinokage, as the pool should obviously be limited to persons whom think of Medaka a woman, and whom Medaka thinks of as a man.

On a separate aspect, Medaka's statement was explicitly spoken in connection with marriage. This has specific implications which I think are fairly limited to individuals like Kumagawa. The thing is that marriage in Japan has a lot of formal/social implications which don't necessarily have any connection to romanticism; particularly in the case of upper class marriages, which is is most definitely the scenario for Medaka herself. In saying that she would consent to a practically immediate marriage to Kumagawa, Medaka is confessing first of all that she has a trust/confidence in Misogi regarding all of those social conditions. The romantic aspect is secondary (I am not certain Medaka has any determined concept of romanticism), and is suitable to be left for later; the aforementioned "respect" we have been talking is the primary basis for having confidence that that will somehow work out.

The point here I am saying, then, is that this is actually a fairly specific compliment (or a compliment in a fairly specific area) from Medaka to Kumagawa. Certainly Medaka would probably agree to "go out" with Zenkichi or Kouki (after she's thought about various other people's feelings, I guess, if she noticed them). However, on the issue of marriage, I think Medaka's "If it's you, Kumagawa" applies more or less specifically. This is because Kumagawa is one of the rare people actually romantically interested in Medaka who hasn't gone through the whole admiration/idolation "Medaka is perfect/always right" stage. Zenkichi/Kouki may have matured/stepped towards independence, but they have still barely started their lives without her. Any romantic relationship Medaka could have with them would have to be tempered by the fact that they would need to keep some distance so as not to regress that growth. It would need to be proceeded gradually (i.e. through dating/courtship), rather than stepping immediately into such ostentatiously unified/intimate roles as "wife"/"husband". The dynamics of their relationships are highly different from the one Medaka has with Kumagawa, whereby Kumagawa's independence from Medaka has long been established already.

If you ask me, "I'd marry you tomorrow, Kumagawa" says that Medaka wouldn't mind getting closer to Misogi (yes, even that close). This is in contrast to her relationships with Akune and Zenkichi, where the important thing is actually their ability to stand individually. So, as far as shipping material, I think it's fairly favourable for Misogi. In terms of overall possibilities regarding whether the romance in Medaka Box will actually go somewhere, I think Kumagawa is in fact extremely obvious second choice.
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Old 2012-04-20, 17:21   Link #8110
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post

If you ask me, "I'd marry you tomorrow, Kumagawa" says that Medaka wouldn't mind getting closer to Misogi (yes, even that close). This is in contrast to her relationships with Akune and Zenkichi, where the important thing is actually their ability to stand individually. So, as far as shipping material, I think it's fairly favourable for Misogi. In terms of overall possibilities regarding whether the romance in Medaka Box will actually go somewhere, I think Kumagawa is in fact extremely obvious second choice.
Not really Medaka was more than willing to marry Electric dude. Basically anyone that wanted to marry her she probably would have that said that to. Why are we bringing random shipping into this crap.
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Old 2012-04-20, 17:23   Link #8111
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Not really Medaka was more than willing to marry Electric dude. Basically anyone that wanted to marry her she probably would have that said that to. Why are we bringing random shipping into this crap.
Harsh dude.
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Old 2012-04-20, 17:26   Link #8112
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
Harsh dude.
Harsh but true, her precise reasoning with him was he saw her as a woman. That could damn near apply to practically anyone that really wanted to be with her. Really though it's bad characterization Medaka's far too willing to propose marriage to random people not even most manga characters are that quick to do that. It's just extremely weird.
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Old 2012-04-20, 17:26   Link #8113
Log
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 
 
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Possibly. Rather than Akune or Hinokage, though, the first other candidate I would think of is Miyakonojou. The first factor in Medaka throwing out that statement like that was that she was responding to Kumagawa's confession/statement of romantic interest. This cuts out Hinokage, as the pool should obviously be limited to persons whom think of Medaka a woman, and whom Medaka thinks of as a man.

On a separate aspect, Medaka's statement was explicitly spoken in connection with marriage. This has specific implications which I think are fairly limited to individuals like Kumagawa. The thing is that marriage in Japan has a lot of formal/social implications which don't necessarily have any connection to romanticism; particularly in the case of upper class marriages, which is is most definitely the scenario for Medaka herself. In saying that she would consent to a practically immediate marriage to Kumagawa, Medaka is confessing first of all that she has a trust/confidence in Misogi regarding all of those social conditions. The romantic aspect is secondary (I am not certain Medaka has any determined concept of romanticism), and is suitable to be left for later; the aforementioned "respect" we have been talking is the primary basis for having confidence that that will somehow work out.

The point here I am saying, then, is that this is actually a fairly specific compliment (or a compliment in a fairly specific area) from Medaka to Kumagawa. Certainly Medaka would probably agree to "go out" with Zenkichi or Kouki (after she's thought about various other people's feelings, I guess, if she noticed them). However, on the issue of marriage, I think Medaka's "If it's you, Kumagawa" applies more or less specifically. This is because Kumagawa is one of the rare people actually romantically interested in Medaka who hasn't gone through the whole admiration/idolation "Medaka is perfect/always right" stage. Zenkichi/Kouki may have matured/stepped towards independence, but they have still barely started their lives without her. Any romantic relationship Medaka could have with them would have to be tempered by the fact that they would need to keep some distance so as not to regress that growth. It would need to be proceeded gradually (i.e. through dating/courtship), rather than stepping immediately into such ostentatiously unified/intimate roles as "wife"/"husband". The dynamics of their relationships are highly different from the one Medaka has with Kumagawa, whereby Kumagawa's independence from Medaka has long been established already.

If you ask me, "I'd marry you tomorrow, Kumagawa" says that Medaka wouldn't mind getting closer to Misogi (yes, even that close). This is in contrast to her relationships with Akune and Zenkichi, where the important thing is actually their ability to stand individually. So, as far as shipping material, I think it's fairly favourable for Misogi. In terms of overall possibilities regarding whether the romance in Medaka Box will actually go somewhere, I think Kumagawa is in fact extremely obvious second choice.
I don't get why your analysing it so seriously. It was just a casual statement from Medaka to Kumagawa. I really doubt Medaka Box will actually go that far in romance. For one thing Zenkichi fans (believe it or not) will rage and Medaka would just gain more haters if she actually hooked up with Kumagawa. Hell depending on how it's written even Kumagawa might lose popularity. It's far better to just stick with being a parody/battle manga then go that far into the romance territory.
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Old 2012-04-20, 18:38   Link #8114
suikostar
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Possibly. Rather than Akune or Hinokage, though, the first other candidate I would think of is Miyakonojou. The first factor in Medaka throwing out that statement like that was that she was responding to Kumagawa's confession/statement of romantic interest. This cuts out Hinokage, as the pool should obviously be limited to persons whom think of Medaka a woman, and whom Medaka thinks of as a man.

On a separate aspect, Medaka's statement was explicitly spoken in connection with marriage. This has specific implications which I think are fairly limited to individuals like Kumagawa. The thing is that marriage in Japan has a lot of formal/social implications which don't necessarily have any connection to romanticism; particularly in the case of upper class marriages, which is is most definitely the scenario for Medaka herself. In saying that she would consent to a practically immediate marriage to Kumagawa, Medaka is confessing first of all that she has a trust/confidence in Misogi regarding all of those social conditions. The romantic aspect is secondary (I am not certain Medaka has any determined concept of romanticism), and is suitable to be left for later; the aforementioned "respect" we have been talking is the primary basis for having confidence that that will somehow work out.

The point here I am saying, then, is that this is actually a fairly specific compliment (or a compliment in a fairly specific area) from Medaka to Kumagawa. Certainly Medaka would probably agree to "go out" with Zenkichi or Kouki (after she's thought about various other people's feelings, I guess, if she noticed them). However, on the issue of marriage, I think Medaka's "If it's you, Kumagawa" applies more or less specifically. This is because Kumagawa is one of the rare people actually romantically interested in Medaka who hasn't gone through the whole admiration/idolation "Medaka is perfect/always right" stage. Zenkichi/Kouki may have matured/stepped towards independence, but they have still barely started their lives without her. Any romantic relationship Medaka could have with them would have to be tempered by the fact that they would need to keep some distance so as not to regress that growth. It would need to be proceeded gradually (i.e. through dating/courtship), rather than stepping immediately into such ostentatiously unified/intimate roles as "wife"/"husband". The dynamics of their relationships are highly different from the one Medaka has with Kumagawa, whereby Kumagawa's independence from Medaka has long been established already.

If you ask me, "I'd marry you tomorrow, Kumagawa" says that Medaka wouldn't mind getting closer to Misogi (yes, even that close). This is in contrast to her relationships with Akune and Zenkichi, where the important thing is actually their ability to stand individually. So, as far as shipping material, I think it's fairly favourable for Misogi. In terms of overall possibilities regarding whether the romance in Medaka Box will actually go somewhere, I think Kumagawa is in fact extremely obvious second choice.
Wrong, at least in my opinion. Take the suroundings when Medaka said that she would marry Kumagawa.She was about to be married to one of those EXTREME weirdos, and be4 that she says "If it's you, Kumagawa", so that was probably an implication on what lv Kumagawa was and on what those 5 suitors.
"If it's you, Kumagawa." and I'd marry you tomorrow, Kumagawa" make a clear statement if you take into account the current situation and what was happening.

Also remember the dark scene behind Medaka when she said she woul marry him. Such things can mean a lot in a manga. About Zenkichi bein graduated from Medaka, there was actually no need for that, he was by her side because he loves her, in last arc he showed that his love was true and behaved as mature as it could have been done.
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Old 2012-04-20, 19:25   Link #8115
FFXFan13
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Originally Posted by suikostar View Post
Wrong, at least in my opinion. Take the suroundings when Medaka said that she would marry Kumagawa.She was about to be married to one of those EXTREME weirdos, and be4 that she says "If it's you, Kumagawa", so that was probably an implication on what lv Kumagawa was and on what those 5 suitors.
"If it's you, Kumagawa." and I'd marry you tomorrow, Kumagawa" make a clear statement if you take into account the current situation and what was happening.

Also remember the dark scene behind Medaka when she said she woul marry him. Such things can mean a lot in a manga. About Zenkichi bein graduated from Medaka, there was actually no need for that, he was by her side because he loves her, in last arc he showed that his love was true and behaved as mature as it could have been done.
Well, in the end all it comes down to is, some people want to see it as ship teasing, some people don't. There are perfectly logical arguments for both sides, so it's better to agree to disagree then claim one side is "wrong".
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Old 2012-04-20, 19:38   Link #8116
kenjtr
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I want an arc where girls who loves zenkichi fights and the one who becomes winner got right to confess lol By the way i am pretty sure medakas sister loves zenkichi which can turn into a pretty sad situation in the future .
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Old 2012-04-20, 19:46   Link #8117
FFXFan13
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I... Can't tell if you're being serious or not
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Old 2012-04-20, 21:15   Link #8118
Valid
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people talking about the anime ONLY being 12 episodes when there has not been an OFFICIAL confirmation as of now, well we jus have to wait for the episode to reach 12 to make any judgements........... anyway great chapter this week, thanks to cxc scans for their hard work on this chapter
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Old 2012-04-20, 21:36   Link #8119
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anyway great chapter this week, thanks to cxc scans for their hard work on this chapter
While the pictures of Ajimu were pretty cool, the rest of the chapter was just kinda "meh" to me

But my sympathies do go out to whoever translated Ajimu's skills, that must have been hell to do...
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Old 2012-04-20, 21:59   Link #8120
bumbayker
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As I thought Zenkichi would take notice of their disappearance and follow them. Now it begs the question to how he'll figure out where their location is and how he'll get there.

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But my sympathies do go out to whoever translated Ajimu's skills, that must have been hell to do...
I don't think translating the skills was the hard part. Compressing 100 skills and have them fit each page is more difficult IMO. CXC did a good job editing and making it readable..
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