Character Discussion - Lelouch

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

But they are still stupid. 8D
Not to mention, disrespectful, the way that most of the times, are being used in the fandom. {See TRC for example, ah}

I have no idea when it comes to TRC, but the stereotypes only annoy me when I encounter blushing, whining uke!Lelouch once again. xD

To each his own though, and enough OT-ness. Unless somehow, Suzaku is being involved with Lelouch's chara in a weird-nogi-way. |D;[/FONT][/B]

Well... Lelouch is uke when it comes to the girls, and totally seme when it comes to Suzaku, so it's not OT. xD
I mean... it describes his character very well! xD

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I have no idea when it comes to TRC, but the stereotypes only annoy me when I encounter blushing, whining uke!Lelouch once again. xD

Good for you. Stay away. 8D

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Well... Lelouch is uke when it comes to the girls, and totally seme when it comes to Suzaku, so it's not OT. xD
I mean... it describes his character very well! xD

Hmm, well, again, to each his own. I am stopping here, cause this might get...peculiar. 8)

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Good for you. Stay away. 8D

O_O
That bad? xD

Hmm, well, again, to each his own. I am stopping here, cause this might get...peculiar. 8)

Hey! You can't make me curious and then just... stop. xD

[yvj]

Uke....Seme?

I could have sworn Lelouch already explained his sexual preference

Spoiler for This is how we do:

P.S. The last few posts have been epic Lulz

Spoiler for This thread:

P. P. S Lelouch beats Light 7 times out of ten IMO. Lelouch at ZR showed his MAX brain powah! with stuff like

The Volcano Surprise
We've got .0000000000001 seconds to stop that Frejia
Fun with videotape and Schniezel

I don't Light has done anything near as impressive.

[snowdevil_crow]

Lol, Lelouch the pimp. XD

Mah, I think uke-Lelouch is hot... but at the same time it sort of makes more sense for him to be seme. I mean, I can see him being bottom or whatever, and maybe even willingly allowing someone like, say, Suzaku have control over him in bed (back when they were all buddy-buddy). And if we get into the SuzaLulu hatesex bits, I'd say Suzaku definitely tops him there. And CC would top him more often than not, too, I think.

However, with anyone else, I think he would prefer to be in control. And I think the other girls would let him --- Shirley and Kallen and Euphie (though I think Euphie would totally be the initiater... >_>), and such. ... maybe not Milly. And Suzaku would let him top often, I think, because Suzaku's a masochist. And of course Rolo would let him. And.

Wait, why are we even talking about this?

Also, Light vs Lelouch --- I think Light has more impressive Xanatos Roulettes (or whatever the term is), but I think Lelouch is better at battle strategy. Light was all about the mindgames and outwitting people. Lelouch does that too, sometimes, but the real reason he stands out is because of his skills at battle strategy.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

Also, Light vs Lelouch --- I think Light has more impressive Xanatos Roulettes (or whatever the term is), but I think Lelouch is better at battle strategy. Light was all about the mindgames and outwitting people. Lelouch does that too, sometimes, but the real reason he stands out is because of his skills at battle strategy.

Hey, don't forget that Light is on an almost olympic level in swimming, we all saw his habilities at the end of the series in that pool.

About the chess game, Lelouch wins. Flawless victory. Light never played chess in the series. We don't even know if he knows how to play. Even if he knows, i want Lelouch to win.

[Chaos Zangetsu]

I think if Light did know how to play Chess that they would be pretty equal in that they could probaly map out where each other would move for like 10 moves ahead so that Chess game would be pretty epic, I would want to see that, especially being a great chess player myself. I myself royally wasted everyone in middle school in Chess and I am girfted(says on my diagnosis too... should see what I got on the ACT in high school ) That being said, that's a reason why I love Death Note and Code Geass.

[snowdevil_crow]

I suck so badly at chess. And any game involving strategy. But I love Code Geass and Death Note nonetheless! XD

But yeah, we don't even know if Light knows how to play chess, so. Yeah. xD

[iBeast]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Hey, don't forget that Light is on an almost olympic level in swimming, we all saw his habilities at the end of the series in that pool.

About the chess game, Lelouch wins. Flawless victory. Light never played chess in the series. We don't even know if he knows how to play. Even if he knows, i want Lelouch to win.

Light doesn't swim. You mean the tennis game?

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by iBeast

Light doesn't swim. You mean the tennis game?

No, he means swimming. Google "Death Note swimming lessons" to get the meaning.

[Code Geass]

Originally Posted by yvj

Uke....Seme?

I could have sworn Lelouch already explained his sexual preference

Spoiler for This is how we do:

P.S. The last few posts have been epic Lulz

Spoiler for This thread:

P. P. S Lelouch beats Light 7 times out of ten IMO. Lelouch at ZR showed his MAX brain powah! with stuff like

The Volcano Surprise
We've got .0000000000001 seconds to stop that Frejia
Fun with videotape and Schniezel

I don't Light has done anything near as impressive.

I have to agree. Lelouch is so much better and WAY more skilled than Light.

[snowdevil_crow]

Light's swimming lesson is the most epic thing ever.

But Lulu can FLYYYYYYYYY~

[Kid Ying]

I disagree, i think Light eating potatoes is even more epic. This and Mikami breaking the olympic record of jump just by writing names.

But Light swimming lessons still are incredible. UN DEUX TROIS.

[snowdevil_crow]

DON'T FORGET TO BREATHE *wheeze*



The potato chips thing was pretty epic, too.

I only wish Light had been willing to crossdress, like Lelouch. I might have liked him more XD

[Nogitsune]

Since I feel that the novels' grasp on the characters - despite them not being canon, exactly - can be incredibly amazing, I decided to share some of the awesomeness I found in Stage 1. I thought it described Lelouch's reaction and feelings incredibly well, and Levy agreed that other people might enjoy this, as well, so... I'll just take what I quoted to my awesome soulmate and post it here.
About when Lelouch found his dead mother:

Spoiler:

"I learned that death was not a beautiful thing. (...)
I loved her so much. She loved me so much.
But when I saw the corpse full of holes, I thought...

How dirty.

I vomited.
It wasn't because of the smell of blood, or intestines, but the ugliness of my own heart.
I vomited and vomited, and I took it out on everyone around me. Maybe because I was so violent, they made me take something and I was put to sleep.
When I woke up, my sister had closed her eyes and rejected the world, too.
I won't forgive him.
More than the people who did that to my mother, I couldn't forgive him. (...)

And then I started to think...
One day, I'll make you feel the pain I felt.
(...) As long as you geriatric life continues, suffer. Scream.
I don't care if it's right or wrong.
I decided that this is going to happen."

- Stage 1, "Shadow" (p. 89/90)

I think it's amazing, because Lelouch also states that he wanted to take everything away from his father, not simply kill him, and it shows his immense hatred that people often overlook in favour of his more noble goal of changing the world. It shows how hurt Lelouch was, how he has some serious issues, and how he's neither a devil nor a saint.
It's not "canon", but it fits my perception of Lelouch amazingly well, the throwing up part included, and I just had to post it here.
There's also something cute about mini Lelouch not wanting Suzaku as his knight because "a knight isn't a friend". It puts me into the worst fangirl mood.

[snowdevil_crow]

That is an awesome snippet. *_* Thanks for posting it, I think it's very IC for him, too.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by yvj

Uke....Seme?

I could have sworn Lelouch already explained his sexual preference

Spoiler for This is how we do:

P.S. The last few posts have been epic Lulz

Spoiler for This thread:

P. P. S Lelouch beats Light 7 times out of ten IMO. Lelouch at ZR showed his MAX brain powah! with stuff like

The Volcano Surprise
We've got .0000000000001 seconds to stop that Frejia
Fun with videotape and Schniezel

I don't Light has done anything near as impressive.

What the hell are you talking about?

Zero Requiem is the type of thing only a complete imbecile would do.

I mean to make himself look more evil than Charles he would have to kill people in the numbers that the Axis did in World War II.

Lelouch becomes a benevolent ruler, fostering change, and peace
or
Lelouch kills millions in the hopes that peace will come

Yeah

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

What the hell are you talking about?

Zero Requiem is the type of thing only a complete imbecile would do.

I mean to make himself look more evil than Charles he would have to kill people in the numbers that the Axis did in World War II.

Lelouch becomes a benevolent ruler, fostering change, and peace
or
Lelouch kills millions in the hopes that peace will come

Yeah

Why is it stupid? It has worked in many medias of fiction before. Ever read "Watchmen"? Ozymandias did the same thing (and he was just as brutal as Lelouch... XD), then you have Treize Khushrenada doing something similar in Gundam Wing. Heck there are a bunch of anime where something similar was used.

You don't have to agree with the methods, because I sure as hell don't, but it doesn't make it any less effective, and it sure doesn't make it stupid since it has been used many a time before.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Why is it stupid? It has worked in many medias of fiction before. Ever read "Watchmen"? Ozymandias did the same thing (and he was just as brutal as Lelouch... XD), then you have Treize Khushrenada doing something similar in Gundam Wing. Heck there are a bunch of anime where something similar was used.

You don't have to agree with the methods, because I sure as hell don't, but it doesn't make it any less effective, and it sure doesn't make it stupid since it has been used many a time before.

How many other works of fiction employ an idea does not make an idea viable. "If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." (forgive me, but I've forgotten who said this).

The fact is that the turn-myself-into-the-absolute-hate-target-and-end-all-hate-forever-with-my-death idea is not realistic. It is an awesome idea and speaks to the nobility and determination of a character in that they are willing to destroy their own image (and usually life as well) in favor of bettering the world, but it would not realistically create the sort of situation that is shown at the end of the series.

The idea that one man/boy's death can erase decades, centuries, millenia worth of culturally imbedded differences and hatred is simply not a realisitc outcome. People will be glad he is dead, but thy will not forget that they still hate country/religion/person 'X'.

Beyond that, the clean slate concept where everyone is somehow forgiven for everything they ever did in the past is also horribly immature. If life has a reset button then why should anyone put forth any effort in something? If someone else can die to get me off the hook, then where is my incentive to better myself?

If by some miracle, enough of the current generation of people got the message to stop all conflicts in their lifetime, it would still not guarantee anything for future generations. The blood the previous generation spilled to give their children peace, will also introduce the danger of complacency and entitlement. If they don't have to act and think, they become ignorant. Ignorance leads to fear of the unknown and foreign. Fear leads to anger, anger to hate, and I'll stop there because I'm starting to quote Yoda (unintentionally), but you know where this goes. It is called a 'chain of hatred' for a reason.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

How many other works of fiction employ an idea does not make an idea viable. "If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." (forgive me, but I've forgotten who said this)}

I'd say that phrase cuts both ways here, ironically enough.

The fact is that the turn-myself-into-the-absolute-hate-target-and-end-all-hate-forever-with-my-death idea is not realistic. It is an awesome idea and speaks to the nobility and determination of a character in that they are willing to destroy their own image (and usually life as well) in favor of bettering the world, but it would not realistically create the sort of situation that is shown at the end of the series.

Does it have to be realistic? The world of Code Geass is not and has never been entirely realistic. I don't know why do you expect it to have 100% realistic results when this isn't the place for it. I don't even think Watchmen's outcome, whether you go by the movie or comic version, would work in our own reality either. The same thing goes for 00's ending or almost anything else you might want to bring up.

I think the value of an idea is not just how logical it is, by itself or when applied to the real world, but how much thematic sense it has, especially in the context of this particular fictional world and its characters, which in my opinion is plenty. There are many valid, formal, philosophical criticisms, but I think that's missing the point of the story and of Lelouch's character.

If many works of fiction employ an unrealistic idea, I don't think the problem lies in its inherent lack of realism, unless you lose all suspension of disbelief and try to be cynical about the entire matter, which is possible but rather...wasteful maybe?

The idea that one man/boy's death can erase decades, centuries, millenia worth of culturally imbedded differences and hatred is simply not a realisitc outcome. People will be glad he is dead, but thy will not forget that they still hate country/religion/person 'X'.

In addition to what I mentioned before, I don't think this means that all hatred from all times past, present or future was forever erased even if there was some relief from it due to Lelouch's death.

I think the point was to create a better world, not a perfect one, and even if hatred remains after the fact, this much was accomplished and the world is more peaceful, at least for the time being. The world is exhausted from war and a new set of leaders is in place, which is a better starting point and should allow for new ways to channel conflicts on a global scale. I think of it as a transitional period more than a permanent state of peace, but sometimes real improvements do come from such periods, even if things degenerate later on.

Beyond that, the clean slate concept where everyone is somehow forgiven for everything they ever did in the past is also horribly immature. If life has a reset button then why should anyone put forth any effort in something? IfB˜±B ×.ne else can die to get me off the hook, then where is my incentive to better myself?

This is, of course, a philosophical question that only truly matters if you try to apply theoncept by itself outside of its context. Which, again, I don't think was meant to be the point. I mean, going by that measure, then entire religions should be reduced to nothingness yet they still exist. I'm not a believer and this isn't the place for such talk, but I realize the same idea is nothing new. That's all.