True Tears - Episode 13 [END] Discussion / Poll

[golthin]

Originally Posted by SnEptUne

Well, of course. Hiromi is just a side character, she doesn't even have a personality! Beside, after Shin got bored, he would probably dump her.

Notice something here, Shin chose Hiromi because he loves her, but the person that made his heart Waver/shiver is Noe. He chose the tender love over the passionate love. He felt obligated for Hiromi because he had been in love with her for so long, while Noe came after it.

Anyway, I would have been fine with either girl, because I liked both. My favorite was shot down so early in the competition. After watching many time for Noe's scenes, I really felt sorry for Noe, If noe had won I would have felt sorry for Hiromi too. I am weird that even when the girl that I am rooting for wins I feel sad for the other girl.

[b0nyb0y]

Originally Posted by vio5555

In some sense the scene of Noe walking away from Shin is supposed to be as powerful as the scene of Shin and Hiromi that follows; a kiss or more later might have tilted the resolution in Hiromi's favor in some sense. That's probably why they show Shin saying stuff as each of the girls is in their own element...

When you put it that way, I kind of see what writers were trying to convey now. I think this is the reason why I feel a bit unsatisfying with the ending: since the writers has gone all the way to break Noe's heart, I at least expect them to show that the break-up was worth being done. That will at least made some justice for Noe to walk away from Shin. Yet we didn't get a chance to see it.

And Noe, though being able to cry again, is all alone now. So when I saw Noe's tears at the end, my heart aches as hell. I know it's part of growing up, and I saw it coming for a long time now, but when I actually get to see the scene, I still couldn't help feeling sad for her. The writers definitely did a good job leaving the sad feelings in audiences' hearts there...

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Yes, I totally agree. This name of the game is "bittersweet" in every sense of the word. This wasn't what some might call a "happy ending", because, well... it isn't really all that happy. That being said, I do think it was an incredibly satisfying ending to the story. The point of the episode was not "yay! Shinichirou and Hiromi finally became a couple!". After all, this is a show about tears. Rather, it was about how Shinichirou's and Noe's relationship had helped them grow up. Shinichirou was now able to understand himself, his dreams, and his feelings, and to chase after his goals without hesitation. Noe was finally able to better understand herself and others, and to grieve properly for all the sadness she's faced (the closing scene was so fitting in so many ways). It was an episode about breaking it off with someone you really care about a lot, so that you can be with the one you really love. "What makes you cry?" indeed. It's a pretty harsh life lesson -- no fairy tale. But that's what it means to grow up.

Since I was the one raising concern about "happy ending" in the previous thread (link), I feel the urge to respond to this a little bit...

When I said "happy ending" in the previous thread, albeit somewhat naive, I wished for all of them to be happy in the end -- whether it's Jun or Hiromi or Noe. But as expected, one episode is too short to see them all being happy as they've just learned their big life lessons. And on second thought, such happy ending might be a bit boring: the bittersweet ending seems to add grown-up tone to the series, which is a lot more fitting anyway.


I guess it'll be easier for me to analyze things once I get to see the subs. It was too early for me to make my previous comment when I haven't understood all the conversations in the episode yet. I was so excited with the series that I jumped ahead of myself there...

[Whitemoon648]

I voted it 10/10 although i was a Shin X Noe ending.

Well The only reason i gave it a 10 was that well almost all of characters redeemed themselves. Especially , I was glad to see Hiromi Redeem herself.

Well it was kind of sad . seeing how Shin was crying as Noe was leaving but i guess everything worked out at the end. And Noe Now has friends which was great to see.

I think the ending was decent. Complete opposite of School days.

[ZODDGUTS]

Well, of course. Hiromi is just a side character, she doesn't even have a personality! Beside, after Shin got bored, he would probably dump her.

Hiromi does have a personality the only reason why early on she was all cold and stiff was because she wanted to keep a distance between herself and Shin. But once the whole truth came out about them not being related and Shin's mom stop being such a bitch towards her she was finally able to be more open. Shin won't dump her both clearly get along very well both have made each other laugh and smile they also enjoy each other's company they really fit well together. So Shin is not just with her because of her good looks but because of her personality that fits well with his.

Plus why would he get bored of her? She's already learning the splits for him their both are gonna have lots of fun together in Hiromi's apartment. Noe is too pure and innocent to do anything like that. Hiromi has been rather aggresive towards Shin, she took off her clothes in front of him, he's seen her nearly naked in the beggining of the series obviously Hiromi "accidently" left the bathroom door unlock for shin to enter then that kiss that she gave him and the drinking cup scene in this episode while Shin was still holding it + the splits she learned equals a girl willing to do anything to get her man and to make sure she keeps him.

Shin cleary made the right choice and won't ever get bored of her.

[Luapman]

I know my first post was definitely knee-jerk, not out of some Noe fanboyism, but rather seeing another example of how Japanese script writers rarely get a romance "right".

Shin picked the safe, juvenile relationship rather than a complex, mature relationship with either of the two other girls. There is a lot to be said here to explain this point and I will try to be concise and orderly.

First and foremost partners in a romantic relationship should be friends. Friendship is what sustains a love relationship, in fact this is so important that partners should always consider themselves friends first and lovers second. Now, one can care about and have affection for someone without being a friend and this can commonly be seen in familial love. So where is the friendship with Hiromi? There is clearly establed friendship with Aiko and he and Noe certainly developed a friendship, but in 13 episodes I never once saw anything between him and Hiromi that resembled friendship.

Secondly, true romantic love is something that makes one more than what they are. Shin loves Hiromi but all that affection makes him do is flounder, never growing or changing, becoming more than he is. A more "whole" person if you will. Accepting someone wholly for who they are is not really a good thing, that is known as enabling and leads to co-dependent relationships which are horrid travesties. Enter Noe into Shin's life and look at the lengths he begins to go through to grow and mature because of her. A relationship with Noe would mean continued growth as a person, with Hiromi he gets to stay where he is maturity-wise. One is "safe" the other isn't.

Mostly I think the outcome of True Tears is indicative of how Japanese culture views romantic relationships. It is a rare occasion when a main male character of a romance makes the risky but potentially more fulfilling choice of who to be with. I thought this series was going to but I was disappointed. It seems KgNE will remain my top romance anime still.

So with those important factors of a mature romantic relationship the score is as follows:
Friendship:
Aiko: Yes
Hiromi: No
Noe: Yes
Self-Betterment:
Aiko: No
Hiromi: No
Noe: Yes

Even Aiko was a better choice than Hiromi if Shin was looking for REAL love.

[MUAHAHAHAHAHA]

Spoiler:

Disappointed that Noe is not the one that Shin chose.I kind of foresee that but i did not want to believe it.Still,i won't be biased in judging this show just because i didn't get to watch the pairing that i wanted.But the writers could at least do some justice to Noe.Poor girl.

[NoOneKnowS]

Originally Posted by Luapman

I know my first post was definitely knee-jerk, not out of some Noe fanboyism, but rather seeing another example of how Japanese script writers rarely get a romance "right".

Shin picked the safe, juvenile relationship rather than a complex, mature relationship with either of the two other girls. There is a lot to be said here to explain this point and I will try to be concise and orderly.

First and foremost partners in a romantic relationship should be friends. Friendship is what sustains a love relationship, in fact this is so important that partners should always consider themselves friends first and lovers second. Now, one can care about and have affection for someone without being a friend and this can commonly be seen in familial love. So where is the friendship with Hiromi? There is clearly establed friendship with Aiko and he and Noe certainly developed a friendship, but in 13 episodes I never once saw anything between him and Hiromi that resembled friendship.

Secondly, true romantic love is something that makes one more than what they are. Shin loves Hiromi but all that affection makes him do is flounder, never growing or changing, becoming more than he is. A more "whole" person if you will. Accepting someone wholly for who they are is not really a good thing, that is known as enabling and leads to co-dependent relationships which are horrid travesties. Enter Noe into Shin's life and look at the lengths he begins to go through to grow and mature because of her. A relationship with Noe would mean continued growth as a person, with Hiromi he gets to stay where he is maturity-wise. One is "safe" the other isn't.

Mostly I think the outcome of True Tears is indicative of how Japanese culture views romantic relationships. It is a rare occasion when a main male character of a romance makes the risky but potentially more fulfilling choice of who to be with. I thought this series was going to but I was disappointed. It seems KgNE will remain my top romance anime still.

So with those important factors of a mature romantic relationship the score is as follows:
Friendship:
Aiko: Yes
Hiromi: No
Noe: Yes
Self-Betterment:
Aiko: No
Hiromi: No
Noe: Yes

Even Aiko was a better choice than Hiromi if Shin was looking for REAL love.

Um....Shin; Hiromi; Noe are just middle/high-school students. Complex as their character may be; in the end. They're all just kids undergoing adulthood. I don't really think each of them really knows the meaning of "true love" but at least its safe to say; Shin is indeed inlove w/ Hiromi. At the moment yeah yeah; Shin is w/ Hiromi blah blah; but don't forget that it might turn to true love in the end. Lets just say; Shin and Hiromi badly wanted to be w/ each other m'kay. And now they're together. Lets just be happy cause they all got what they wanted. Shin got Hiromi; and vice versa. Noe finally getting her "tears" back. Jun finally admitting his feelings. Aiko finally moving forward and forgetting about shin. And Nobuse being a man facing his own love issues alone w/out the help/support of Shin.

[oompa loompa]

well, im glad its shin x hiromi. because, shin is boring, and so is hiromi ! i mean that in a good way ( as strange as it sounds ) as far as im concerned, i used to be all for hiromi, but the winner of this has gotta be aiko , i mean shes gonna get nobuse right? nobuse > 10 x shin any day

[Pellissier]

While I understand that trying to stop the shipping at this point of time is rather useless, can we please try not to bring the discussed matters to personal grounds?

Using confrontational methods doesn't make your points stronger, and even less of a result you'll obtain by attacking (subtly or blatantly) someone else. raidragon, you can try to illustrate your point again, if you can manage to keep personal judgements out. Please stay focused on the series' only, when commenting someone else's opinions.

Of course, this goes for everyone.

Originally Posted by Luapman

P.S.: If you aren't successfully married and/or haven't studied psychology on a college level please do not bother trying to refute this. :P

I'd like this kind of approach to be avoided. You see, I did study psychology on a college level so am I allowed to reply? If not I wasn't? (or at least, not in a credible way?) Sorry, but this is not how AnimeSuki works, it is meant to be a place where everyone can gather their opinion in a peaceful manner, and with no fears of being flamed.
My wish is to encourage people in contributing here by giving their two cents, but putting things in such confrontational ways actually is discouraging, as a matter of facts.

For those reasons, I removed that line from your post, as it wasn't adding any weight and was only possibly there to attract flames.

[grey_moon]

Very enjoyable show. The ending was how I thought it would be apart from the Noe breakup. Wow the depths of his feelings for Hiromi must be so great if breaking up with Noe is that painful.

Well they do say that love is illogical and TT shows it in a very well done way. As pointed out many times it was Noe who inspired him to draw, but now we find she inspired him to dance as well. I guess that is why Hiromi acted so put out each time she saw Noe influence in the two main things of Shin's life.

I wish we got more of a hint to why Shin loves Hiromi so much, but I guess love is one of the greatest plot devices ever

All in all I'm very happy with this ending.

Shin got the best of both worlds, ie the girl he loves and someone to inspire him (I hope he remains friends with Noe)

Ai and Nobu seem to be getting on well.

Jun was able to keep his deviant tenancies under control.

Hiromi did the splits

Finally Noe seems able to move on and make friends with her peers. When she was looking at the writing on the ground I just wanted to give her a big hug!

At first I was a little put out by Noe not crying, but then if I take the point about the heart wavering, it just shows that Noe's heart has never wavered...

Still can't wrap my head around Shin's mum and Hiromi, so I've put in down to insane jealous mother syndrome (I can't remember who pointed that one out )

Again a very good show.

[monir]

A quick post after watching the episode.

Originally Posted by grey_moon

At first I was a little put out by Noe not crying, but then if I take the point about the heart wavering, it just shows that Noe's heart has never wavered...

Watch the ending theme all the way through.

Still can't wrap my head around Shin's mum and Hiromi, so I've put in down to insane jealous mother syndrome (I can't remember who pointed that one out )

Memememememe me.. No really, the past event had been drawn parallel to the present trio. We can have an educated guess about how things transpired by looking at Shin+Hiromi+Noe trio. What really went wrong in the past was what Shin's dad said, "he wavered." I still need to watch the sub.

[arkxkra]

Spoiler for :

nice episode, nice ending.

Shin's mother telling Hiromi waiting is need alot endurance. Don't tell me Shin parent has same experiece as Shin now? Shin like Hiromi but at the sametime Noe is important to him, that was painful.

For AIko, seem very happy with Nobuse now, not bad. And Jun go to other place(and have a kid behind) who is that kid? Or i think too much. Shin continue his drawing. Noe finally found some friend.

And finally, Noe can collect the tears, once again tears, that was a good actually, hope she will find her hapiness. The last part was really beautiful, the tear fly on the sky .

Series end now, going to miss it .

[raidragon]

well, i'm sorry for that^^.....but yeah, his P.S. kind of make me feel irritated after i finish eps 13^^.......but overall.. i give only 8/10 ....weird ending scene...and not an appropriate time to insert the opening song^^

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by monir

Watch the ending theme all the way through.

Arrrrggghhh I just got struck in the heart with a spear! Oh noes sniffle sniffle sniffle

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Still can't wrap my head around Shin's mum and Hiromi, so I've put in down to insane jealous mother syndrome (I can't remember who pointed that one out )

At the end, quite like you, I wasn't really able to discern all that lies in Shin mother's past. If anything, a couple of interactions from this episode (specifically: Shin with his father, Hiromi with Shin's mother), gave me some clues to build a theory I will keep as valid for myself, in absence of an universally undeniable truth.

Shin's father when young was in love with and loved by both Shin's mother and Hiromi's mother. He chose Shin's mother at the end, but never made things clear with the other. This caused Shin mother's grudge towards Hiromi, and her lying to her about her husband possibly having had a relationship with Hiromi's mother, out of pure spite.

In the present days, if we label Shin's father as Shin, Shin's mother as Hiromi and Hiromi's mother as Noe, the story is quite the same. Shin was committing the same mistake his father did, but at the end he managed to be decisive and chose, clearing up things. It was an hard choice, but he had to, otherwise his family could have been cursed by the same spell his own family had, constituted by cold, bad mood and growing tensions. Not always you can have triggers to unlock such situations (in the series, the unlocking trigger was the contemporary Shin's being too late and Hiromi's disappearance in episode 8), and it's possible that they can drag ahead forever.

Clearing things up avoided a total parallelism with the elders' story. It still was a parallelism, but with a different (better) path in the end.

I also give a whole new meaning to the opening song, and especially to its title. So the reflections were referred to the two trios ?
Who knows, but in this anime mainly made of subtlety and light appearing yet heavy weighing elements, we need to take whatever it's given

edit: I see that mr.Kakkoii (monir) had the same thoughts I had. Before ep.13, we were both slightly uncertain on how to judge this whole Shin's family issue, but it seems we've come to independent yet similar conclusions. ^^

[Luapman]

@Pellissier: sry. the "P.S." was so we didn't have to deal with refutation of solid and established maxims of a mature relationship. I in no way wanted to discourage opinions about the characters' choices in the series. Only that Shin's choice was a poor one considering the circumstances and that his choice was a very good representation of how Japan prefers romantic choices.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Luapman

Only that Shin's choice was a poor one considering the circumstances and that his choice was a very good representation of how Japan prefers romantic choices.

I have a hard time trying to define (pigeon hole) what is considered romantic. Mainly it is in the eye of the beholder, but also my ideal relationship is so far off the base of what I guess could be considered the Hollywood idea of romance... But that aside, when I look at Shin's choice of Hiromi compared to Noe, it pains me to say that he made what I think is the right choice.

I much prefer Noe over Hiromi just because I prefer a relationship where each member of the partnership inspires the other to live life and grow together.

With Hiromi I didn't get much of that feeling apart from the need to be protected and the need to protect (Hiromi lost, and Shin wanting to wipe away her tears {I kinda think that is protecting}).

In the short time he was with Noe he imho grew so much as a person. The Shin of epi 1 was I am afraid to say a soon to be emo teen, but he was saved by chickens of all the things

I do think Noe got the shorter end of the stick in that partnership, but from the end of epi 13 which I missed the first time around, the relationship did set her free. Noe finding friends I think was something she would have done given half the chance as I do believe that people are not all mindless fork wielding mobs who stake and burn all that does not conform to the norm. Noe is sweet and pure, and only a little weird with the cockroach song

So why do i feel that Hiromi is a better choice? Well Shin is emotion driven and his idea of love is Hiromi, so for him to pick Noe would be a lie and that would go against the whole True XXX aspect of this story.

[Sorrow-K]

The technical execution of this series was outstanding, but, geez, I grew to be so indifferent to these characters by the end. It's hard to be emotionally invested in the drama when you can't sympathize with the characters at all, and this is probably why I struggled with this series so much.

I loved the way this anime approached everything, and the directing from Nishimura Junji was great. I can't wait to see what P.A. Works does next, but I'd hope whatever it is, it has more sympathetic characters than this. This ultimately gets a "meh" from me.

[MercFH]

Spoiler:

Really Enjoyed the overall ending. Aiko got the shaft she was my original pic. but meh she got a good ending either way

Hiromi really grew as a character alot, while she seemed kinda mean she was just troubled. I mean she wanted Shin nearby and I admired that. Shin however was kinda unsure about everything so it made it alot harder for hiromi. Hiromi was def the right pic because she had loved him since childhood.

Noe I didnt really like BUT felt kinda sorry for her, afterall she did kinda get the shaft at the end. I didn't really know if i felt "conclusive" about her ending

Shins dad played a bigger role than people think and he was just a pimp.

overall AWESOME series. I do wish they would've at least KISSED at the end ahah. btw hiromi+glasses....too kawaii

[b0nyb0y]

Now that I have a chance to see the subs, my feeling toward the ep. is much better. As many people said, just about every conversation in the ep. had so much depth that you're blown away...

I like it how Jun came clean with Hiromi and Shin this ep. Though on the rooftop he said he couldn't forgive Shin when he 'shooed' Shin away, he definitely did it just to let Shin go and officially broke the contract they had. He also let Hiromi go, while not forgetting to tell her that it's not her fault. In a way of doing so, he broke himself free from the mess he created so that he can start all anew (which is nicely illustrated with the red cloth flying up to the sky). Though the scene itself was quite understated, symbolically it was simply a beautiful scene...

And though Hiromi was quite insecure last time, this episode she found a courage to let Shin resolve the relationship in any way he wants, and she'll accept it. That's yet another sign of her emotional growth, which is what I'm glad to see. And it actually paid off, since they finally got together.

A couple of episodes ago I predicted that the Shin-Hiromi arc will come to a full circle during the dance, since it was during the festival that they started developing feelings for each other. Instead, the plot came to a full circle on this bamboo pathway. Very very fitting indeed.

As I said earlier, Noe is the catalyst that stirs the changes in other characters. Without her, all the main characters would probably have stayed in their emotional deadlocks. As such, she's definitely an angel that showed all other characters the way. And what Shin realizes during the dance was this probably this fact. He came to realize that he just went with the flows all along. Whether it's about his love for Hiromi, his drawing, or his dance. He just accepts what ever given to him. Can't get to Hiromi? I guess I'll just give up and look at her from afar. Noe wanted me to draw? I'll just draw it because she wants it. The dance I do always got me compared with my father? I don't love it but I'll just do it because it's what I'm supposed to do being born into this family; I'll always live under my father's shadow. Yet through interactions with Noe, he starts to follow his own heart. He now finds the courage to reach out for Hiromi. He drew the story because he wants her to see it (not because of just Noe wanting him to draw). And he finds the reason to dance on his own, not just to fufill the duty.

So, when you have such a good memorable time with this person, yet you have to break her heart, it'll pain you more than anything. The fact that Shin already developed some feelings (whether it's romantic or not) for Noe doesn't help either. So Shin has to face with the situation where he both got his heart broken and feeling extremely guilty at the same time (and rightly so). I think Noe knows this. That's why she didn't let Shin walk her back, and just said not to worry about her. In short, I believe Shin's breakdown was mostly from the sadness of hurting Noe, who is definitely a precious person to him.

What I really like was the conversation they had before Noe heading back. On the surface, it may seem that Noe just talked about her leg. But as they still talked with the word "flying", we can see deeper meaning than that. In a way, Noe said to Shin that, though she can't fly yet, but once she has her heart healed, she'll definitely be able to fly for sure. What she said was to imply both her physical and mental states. Again, it's symbolism, yet beautifully executed again.

All in all, I guess I have to take my words back about Shin not doing anything much this episode. From a second look, he's improved quite a bit. And there's no helping it that Shin didn't get to help Noe back on her feet even when they broke up. She has always been strong from the very beginning, so it probably is fine that it was Noe herself who walked away from the break-up without tears, and it was Shin himself who has to kneel down and cry.