Kuzu no Honkai (noitaminA)

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Oh boy, now we're judging this series based on what other 'better' series deserve the adaptation? And this series is not particularly worthy of an adaptation because some people have already read the source and yet deemed the ANIME unworthy, despite the anime being well executed? And here I thought those complaining about adaptations not being 1:1 to their source were actually bad...

That's a little off if you ask me. I did not actually mean to imply that this series is bad because of how it compares to another series. I was just responding to some statements. Someone said there were better things that could be animated instead, and was accused of wanting some utter absurdity like slave harems. I protested that there were plenty of "better" and that this didn't mean someone was just looking for more harem stuff, that there are actually better dramatic series too. And when the response seemed to continue to imply things about my definition of what constitutes a better story, I decided to name the first dramatic series that came to mind, though there were others I'd thought of, just to show that my idea of a better work did not involve the idiocy in the earlier post. I did not intend to actually measure this series against another. As you said it should be measured on its own.

I do measure it somewhat based on its basic content and series with similar plots, as well as the nature of the conflict and the characters' relationships, and this is where I found it highly unappealing. I've gotten tired of the sort of characters and relationships that some seem to these days consider necessary for a story to be "deep", "serious" or "dramatic".

[DragoonKain3]

Oh... even Mugi has known female Sensei when she was in high school? I'm assuming the Senseis have finished at least their bachelors to be a teacher, so that's minimum 4 years difference. Meaning Mugi has known Sensei since he was in elementary?

So not only has this series has HanaXSensei, it also has MugiXMoca, MugiXFSensei, AND the side characters HiroXAyumi as well as actual childhood friends? No wonder I was feeling osananajimi vibes on HanaXMugi. Despite the author not willing to give any of the real couples any break, at least she understands the childhood friend dynamic... maybe so much so that it actually bleeds into those that aren't even childhood friends. Reminds me a lot of Maruto actually, which incidentally is the next noitamina show following this. XD

And Hana, who are you kidding? The reason why you are being mean to pig-tail girl because pig-tail girl is exactly in the same shoes as you are. Heck, maybe even the reason why you hate her is because you are jealous at how pigtail girl can covey her feelings to Mugi, while you don't have the balls to do it yourself to Sensei.

As a side note, I have no idea why Amazon won't let me rewatch the second episode anymore (I can't really recall names easily so I tend to rewatch to get them). Weird... I definitely did not learn Japanese overnight, so I didn't imagine watching the 2nd episode.

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

As you said it should be measured on its own.

At least you get the main gist of my message, but...

I do measure it somewhat based on its basic content and series with similar plots, as well as the nature of the conflict and the characters' relationships, and this is where I found it highly unappealing. I've gotten tired of the sort of characters and relationships that some seem to these days consider necessary for a story to be "deep", "serious" or "dramatic".

Now this is what I don't get... the only way you can get the bolded part is if you are comparing the manga iteration of this series to other mangas (which I also gleaned from your previous posts). As such, not only are you judging the anime based on what was done in the manga, but you are also comparing the anime based on other mangas with the same plot. I have said before that the former shouldn't be taken into account because the anime has shown it can improve on things, and the latter is an even further reach.

I mean, I get it, you feel so strongly about the manga that you can't help but project it onto the anime. Believe me, I have had the same problem with Orange. I personally have grown an intense hatred of the manga source, and as such after first episode, I have actively avoided the anime thread because my perception is skewed by the it. After the pilot, I didn't voice my frustrations with the anime adaptation precisely because my beef with the plot was with future events I know that is going to happen, but the anime-only watchers would have no idea where my frustrations are coming from.

See what I'm getting at here? We are in the anime discussion of this forum, and while I'm no mod, what should be discussed and judged upon these threads should be anime and anime only. Like of course, I personally don't mind anime-to-source or even anime-to-other-medium comparisons, but when it's like half of the posts, I tend to get a bit triggered since it reminds of other series threads, where the anime is lambasted by what its source did or did not do.

[Stark700]

Episode 2:

Spoiler:

Moca's voice is kinda annoying in this show imo.

Ebato's character chemistry with Hanabi is kinda amusing so far. (I found it more entertaining than Moca and Hanabi at the moment). I can't help but laugh at that karaoke scene though. The atmosphere was a balance of light and dark considering the circumstances.

Didn't take long for Ebato to make her move heh..
Looks like she couldn't control herself.

[moens]

Gosh I can't wait for EP 3 after that ending.

[AB079]

Episode 2 introduced Noriko, for now she's the most pure girl in this series but that happens just because she has a childish way of thinking, waiting for her prince which in this case is Mugi obviously.

And here we go, the cheap lesbian drama is about to begin and with that all the production value will means nothing. Hanabi really is a pathetic character.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Now this is what I don't get... the only way you can get the bolded part is if you are comparing the manga iteration of this series to other mangas (which I also gleaned from your previous posts). As such, not only are you judging the anime based on what was done in the manga, but you are also comparing the anime based on other mangas with the same plot. I have said before that the former shouldn't be taken into account because the anime has shown it can improve on things, and the latter is an even further reach.

You're accusing a guy who knows very little about the manga of complaining about the manga.

I'm not judging the anime based on the manga's content. The initial premise has been set in the first episode, establishing the general character relations and conflict. A conflict that has been done several times before and like I said the only major difference I've seen is that the two have almost-sex whenever they get the chance. I hadn't read the manga when I posted most of what I posted. I was going 100% based on the premise that's been established in the very first episode, without any knowledge of further plot except for the fact that others have said the things that bother me will continue. I agree with you about comparing the manga content before it becomes animated. I myself have gotten a little mad a few times at people over such things. But I wasn't going based on manga content and was only comparing what seemed to be standard content from the first episode in comparison to anime/manga/LNs with similar plots, in which again it looks at least for now like the only difference is going to be that the pair have sex (or almost) long before anyone develops feelings for each other. I'd just as quickly point out if I saw a series that seemed to be another IS clone except the girls have casual sex with the harem king from the get-go, if that much could be inferred from the aired material.

As for the current episode, I must admit it must be an odd feeling for Hana during that consultation. Her "love" frankly seems quite shallow and selfish, so to meet someone whose idea of "love" makes hers look deep would probably be very confusing. Still, I have to say I now have another item that I can't like. I'm find with love triangles, even love squares, but dodecahedrons just get on my nerves. We now have a lesbian who's crazy about Hana, a childhood friend jonesing for Mugi, Hana and Mugi are after their teachers, and at the same time Hana and Mugi are screwing around while their teachers go after one another? Unrequited love is a great source of conflict and emotion (though I strongly prefer stories where people's either find their feelings returned or find something better by the end), but just how many fruitless loves do you need to have in a single story? I just hope Moka and Ecchan don't have any secret admirers.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Please remove Moca from the series. Her voice is nails on blackboard tier annoying.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by AB079

Episode 2 introduced Noriko, for now she's the most pure girl in this series but that happens just because she has a childish way of thinking, waiting for her prince which in this case is Mugi obviously.

And here we go, the cheap lesbian drama is about to begin and with that all the production value will means nothing. Hanabi really is a pathetic character.

I prefer this lesbian drama over what will be the last part of the show so I think it's fine.

And lol noriko this episode. I feel like she doesn't belong in this show with her pureness.

[bastek66]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

Please remove Moca from the series. Her voice is nails on blackboard tier annoying.

Her voice as Timpopopo-ching was great, though

[serenade_beta]

Spoiler for ep2:

Ohoh, now we get the yuri character.
Go Ecchan. I'm voting for you.

[blitz1/2]

Need a imouto character....

[Harry Dresden]

Episode 2

Okay I am 100% on board. This show continues to be real as all hell. Ecchan's reactions to her feelings and stuff is pretty much textbook.

Its interesting too because with Hanabi and Ecchan, this episode essentially splits viewers in half.

Viewers with an all-inclusive worldview will have a suspicion almost straight away that Ecchan might have a crush on Hanabi, empathizing with her through the episode. The only doubt that might rise is from the fact that anime usually shies away from same gender relationships. However Ecchan's reaction to Hanabi's "hug" pretty much sheds away any doubt in terms of how Ecchan might feel.

Viewers with a heteronormative view on other hand will align with Hanabi more than Ecchan and will be blindsided by what happened. They will do the same mistake as Hanabi in assuming that them being of same gender somehow alters the meaning of interactions or reactions - hell, its pretty much what Hanabi says straight to Ecchan's face when she lets her in - "oh its no problem because we are both girls" and stuff.

I can't wait to see where this go. I can only expect tragedy because this so far has dealt with relationships in very realistic tone(and because tragedy is synonymous with any sort of same sex attraction in anime), I just hope Ecchan comes out unscathed from this, because that last line of her's about wanting to die is very worrisome. The "I want to die" is chilling because suicidal thoughts ARE horrifyingly frequent part of teenagers realizing their orientation, mainly because usually in their psyche being attracted to same sex gets associated with a wrongdoing(or more exactly feeling like there's something wrong with them) and thus guilt, fear of rejection, etc.

Then again, if to be honest, from the tone so far, I don't expect anyone to get a true "happy ending" in this show. The only question is how deep the rabbit hole of toxic relationships will go before someone takes the plunge off the cliff or something.

[novalysis]

Kuzu no Honaki is burning trainwreck careening into the abyss. But even though it's going to probably end in tragedy all around, I can't help but keep watching the train speed on to it's doom. This is probably going to be the most divisive and controversial show of the season, if it hasn't yet.

[Arya]

mmm, good episode. Letting aside the loli, that I could have been fine without, the show is handling the characters in a compelling way. I'm liking especially Hanabi, so far she doesn't seem to conform to any standard stereotype characters you usually get. I almost liked all her reactions during the episode.

The boy is also interesting, he is starting to be caring, as much as their situation let him be.

while I can't really connect with them when they mourn for their own one-sided situation, on the other hand I'm starting to warm up to them.

Not much to say about Ecchan yet. She has been barely introduced.

About the music teacher, the boy's crush, well, maybe I jumped to the wrong conclusions (basing them from the generic frequent negative posts) expecting her to be a bitch, but I can't see her as a bad person. Or at least, hearing her playing gave me the exact opposite impression. I mean, the piece is beautiful. Surely it also may be part of her spider net, if she will have any

Anyhow, I'd hope for the adults to stay away from any real involvement with the kids. But I know very likely it's a vain hope.

[SPARTAN 119]

Well this has certainly escalated quickly. It seems like Mugi and Hanabi are like a pivot point around which unrequited attractions and disfunctional relationships form. In general, as far as the pairings are concerned, I suspected pretty much from the get-go that Ecchan was attracted to Hanabi.

Overall, I'm enjoying this series so far. As someone who has felt similar frustrations in the past, I can sympathize with a the characters of this series.

With regard to the whole possibilities for the ending, I'd say it's still up in the air whether any of these couples will end up together- I'd say the most unlikely to succeed are Mugi and Hanabi's teacher crushes, given the more realistic tone of the series. Teacher-student relationships are generally frowned upon, even if the student involved is of legal age.

As for the others, I'm not sure. For all we know at this point, it could go with the "none of above" route- which would probably be the most realistic- most relationships in high school do not end up continuing past that, at least from my experience. I doubt the anime will go this far, but if they were real people, I would not be surprised if, ten years down the road, all of them are dating someone they met after graduating high school, or else not in a relationship at all at the moment.

[Yamada II]

Episode 2

So they've introduced all the characters and their roles too. Noriko is Mugi's childhood friend and is in love with him. Ecchan is Hanabi's only friend and is in love with her. But neither Mugi nor Hanabi think of their girl in that way. Unlike Mugi and Hanabi, Noriko and Ecchan are open about their feelings, though Ecchan didn't exactly want to be open but she couldn't control herself and ended up kissing Hanabi. She couldn't keep her lust in check and we ended up getting some girl on girl action. Both Ecchan and Noriko think that one of the couple is using the other but they don't know that they're using each other, although not for the reasons they might think.

The part of Hanabi giving love advice was nicely done. That girl was taking romance so lightly. For her it was all about the looks and less about everything else. For Hanabi it's the whole package and not one spec. That girl also had it easy since she had two choices and wasn't severely in love with them so giving up on one wouldn't hurt her much. Hanabi couldn't empathize since she doesn't have two options and because her take on love is entirely different.

The problem here is that it's trying to be funny but is failing at it. The comedy is sucking because we have Mugi and Hanabi with their depressing voices. They have this depressed voice which makes any attempt at comedy by them fall flat. I don't mean "depressed" in a bad way; it's just that the voice acting really isn't doing well with the comedy scenes.

The execution of things is looking good. Things are interesting enough so far. Plus the OP and ED along with those visuals are pretty neat. Though the yuri might seal the deal here for me...

[Ulin]

Originally Posted by Yamada II

Episode 2

The problem here is that it's trying to be funny but is failing at it. The comedy is sucking because we have Mugi and Hanabi with their depressing voices. They have this depressed voice which makes any attempt at comedy by them fall flat. I don't mean "depressed" in a bad way; it's just that the voice acting really isn't doing well with the comedy scenes.

Oddly enough, I don't think that scene were supposed to be funny. I thought it was mainly to show how different are the problems the two girls were facing. One is much more shallow and their takes on romance are completely opposites...

I didn't expect the yuri to be so fast, and now I can't wait until next ep to watch Hana's reaction I really like how Ecchan is portrayed, but I guess I can't root for her

[HandofFate]

for filling a void, the two act very much like a real couple.
i thought the series from the desciprtion was going to be 100% angst and just the two longing for the teachers in a deep pit, but the characterization of the two is more dimensional than that.

The two acting possessive of eachother even though its not who they really want is pretty amusing

[Kanon]

The story is turning out to be more complicated than I thought it would be.

Ecchan is in love with Hanabi who is in love with male Sensei who is in love with female sensei. On the other hand, you have Moca who is in love with Mugi who is in love with female sensei who may or may not be in love with male sensei. And Hanabi is apparently going to be used as a sex (in a manner of speaking) toy by both Ecchan and Mugi. Talk about a mess.

What was the karaoke song Hana sung? I know it's the OP of an anime, but I just can't remember which. Pretty sure it's a shounen, I'm thinking Naruto... in which case, I'm wondering if there is any relation.

[Yamada II]

Originally Posted by Ulin

Oddly enough, I don't think that scene were supposed to be funny. I thought it was mainly to show how different are the problems the two girls were facing. One is much more shallow and their takes on romance are completely opposites...

Oh I wasn't talking about that scene trying to be funny. It ended up being not that clear, but I was talking about the comedy in general and how they're failing at that.