2013-05-01, 16:33 | Link #6861 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
I agree saying Kira is responsible for Shinn's family being killed due to no way Calamity being on the ground could have blasted Shinn's family. But, if the producers wanted to make us think Kira wasn't at fault, they should have had the shot being aimed at Forbidden so while Freedom's shot was the one that killed the Asuka family, it was due to Forbidden deflecting Freedom's shot.
|
2013-05-01, 19:02 | Link #6863 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
|
Quote:
And there was no point to remove the Freedom from that scene to "keeps jesus yamatos hands clean" hes still a killer and have always been since he entered the war, though he tries to keep his hands as clean as possible now, but is willing to dirty it further if necessary and does recognize people will die, regardless of what he does. The differences in all 3 scenes are completely irrevelent, as long as the Asuka family dies, and Shinn gets traumatized by their deaths |
|
2013-05-01, 19:13 | Link #6864 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
|
Quote:
It is pretty much as a drunk driver that hit himself that hits another driver, however, it isn't the driver that ends up killing his family. It ends up being someone else in between or someone out of the loop. For you are pretty much saying it that you blame Kira for just being there, is simply what it amounts to. Without Kira, Orb wouldn't have been able to stall EA for that long before leaving. Orb forces would have been decimated far faster, that Orb simply wouldn't have enough time to counter. It is simply unreasonable for Shinn to blame Kira for everything, even for war base situations. That is still taking it way too far. It like someone blaming you for not getting into a car accident and end pinning it on you for it without any reason and you didn't even crash into them. Last edited by Cherudim Arche; 2013-05-01 at 20:44. |
|
2013-05-01, 20:39 | Link #6866 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
|
It isn't unreasonable.
We can do could or what ifs all day. The fact of the matter is what DID happen that that is Kira's battle ended up getting Shinn's family killed. It wasn't intentional but that's what ended up happening. So Shinn being angry is fine as his family is dead due to that. Could they have died anyway? Maybe. We will never know but what we DO know is that they died due to what happened. |
2013-05-01, 20:52 | Link #6867 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-05-01, 21:03 | Link #6868 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Especially since Shinn never is angry at Freedom. Nor does he ever even seem to know Freedom was there. All he knew was the official Zaft story of Freedom being a legendary suit that fought for them in the war. He didn't even know what it looked like until told after the battle that that odd Gundam that crashed their battle was Freedom.
Instead he's made at Orb. And not for a reason he could legitimately be angry at them like them helping EA twice already and breaking their neutrality, or because they deliberately dragged the battle on to send AA into space and form the TSA (because Shinn has no knowledge of either of this) but simply because he's mad they couldn't magically not get invaded when the entire world went to hell. And he takes it out on Cagalli, who had no control over the situation back then. |
2013-05-01, 21:12 | Link #6869 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
|
It isn't circumstantial. If it was than why was the Freedom shown flying around after Shinn finds his family? It is not a coincidence. It was put there because Shinn's family was killed by a stray or reflected shot in that battle. We also didn't see any battleships firing or them being shown right before or after his family died while the Freedom was shown.
You're confusing me with the other poster. So I will ignore your personal attacks against me. To make it clear to you I didn't say it was ONLY Kira's fault. However he did play a part in it as we know his resistance got Shinn's family killed. Could Shinn's family still have died if Kira wasn't there? Maybe. However, it's just that - maybe. What we do know is that Kira being there and fighting did get his family killed. Kira shouldn't be sorry or feel bad over it as he didn't mean to get Shinn's family killed, however Shinn is still justified in being angry since at the end of the day his family is still dead. |
2013-05-01, 21:17 | Link #6870 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
|
Quote:
Last edited by Cherudim Arche; 2013-05-01 at 21:36. |
|
2013-05-01, 21:41 | Link #6872 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
|
I don't think it in the flashback. It shows that they are under attack, but it isn't specific beyond that. It is very ambiguous when it comes scene. If they had more pilot accounts from Orb and EA, then maybe they can say. The issue is that there isn't other witness that can prove Shinn's statement by either debunking it or to see it is true.
|
2013-05-01, 23:04 | Link #6874 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
|
Shinn DOESN'T use the Freedom as a scapegoat. Hell, he has forgotten about the Freedom by Destiny. Also, Kira has no way of predicting where the hits of his shots will land if they're reflected by the enemy. He also dodged a lot of attacks and had a lot of his attacks dodged too.
Shinn instead blames ORB over the Freedom which he's right to and he sure as heck doesn't like the Feds either considering he doesn't mind fighting them and works with ZAFT. |
2013-05-01, 23:48 | Link #6875 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Well technically it was in one of the many recaps. But the scene as a whole was shorter. And again, they showed Freedom in the first ep of remaster, so they obviously didn't remove it as a retcon. They just shortened it and Freedom getting removed was a coincidence.
|
2013-05-01, 23:55 | Link #6876 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
|
The changes in the remastered episode of Seed doesn't really give the feel that either was responsible since they added in the scene of Shinn's family giving an idea of the timeline of the events. So it's likely just coincidental that they were shown in the scene and mostly just used as motivation for Shinn to give him his start.
__________________
|
2013-05-02, 00:02 | Link #6877 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
You know this arguement is pointless. There's no way to officially confirm who fired the shot. Sure it looks like Kira might have but does it matter? It NEVER comes up again.
The only character it would have mattered too didn't notice or see. Kira himself didn't notice or see. So in the end even if he killed them accidentally, nobody would ever know. And since Shinn ends up hating Kira anyway for unreleated reasons, it's truely pointless in the end. |
2013-05-02, 00:11 | Link #6878 | |
2LMES
Join Date: May 2012
Location: a comet that goes zooom!!!
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2013-05-02, 00:12 | Link #6879 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-05-02, 00:21 | Link #6880 | |
2LMES
Join Date: May 2012
Location: a comet that goes zooom!!!
|
Quote:
Spoiler:
it was the fashion police who shot that beam
__________________
|
|
Tags |
mecha, seed it and weep |
|
|