Code Geass R2 - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Stretch5920]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Dont get me wrong i like Kallen as well very much in fact. But this is a war and sacrificing many troops for the sake of one solider is against my better judgment. If you would ask me on a personal level hell yea i say mix it up with the enemy and get her back but for the good of the long term goal that is not something that should happen often. Lelouch's quick thinking saved them from utter defeat this time out.

I agree with you in general, like I said Diethard wasn't wrong to propose a retreat. But there are other reasons for Lelouch to save Kallen beyond personal, she knows his identity, the guren is their most advanced mech and letting your enemy have it to use and study is not good and Zero abandoning his most loyal and private soldier infront of everyone would be a huge blow to morale.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

For the first point, fair enough, it makes a certain amount of sense.

For the second point, did they need to remove Zangetsu's float system to recharge its energy fillers? If not, a Guren-Zangetsu duo should have been enough to take down Shen Hu fast, even if both were at half-empty. I guess there's no point arguing this point though, what's done is done...

For the third point, fair enough.

Alright, that's good to know I can at least provide something of an informative statement

I don't know, Shen Hu seems like it can kick quite a lot of ass at only 40% of its power, who knows what would have happened had they pushed Li further because if Kallen hadn't ran dry like that he would in his own words have to kill her instead of being able to capture her instead.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Stretch5920

I agree with you in general, like I said Diethard wasn't wrong to propose a retreat. But there are other reasons for Lelouch to save Kallen beyond personal, she knows his identity, the guren is their most advanced mech and letting your enemy have it to use and study is not good and Zero abandoning his most loyal and private soldier infront of everyone would be a huge blow to morale.

Fair enough there are always 2 sides to the same coin. Besides Kallen not waiting long enough to recharge was also a factor in her being captured. But your right Kallen and Guren together are like a token symbol of the BK having both taken would be a huge blow to moral.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Alright, that's good to know I can at least provide something of an informative statement

I don't know, Shen Hu seems like it can quick quite a lot of ass at only 40% of its power, who knows what would have happened had they pushed Li further because if Kallen hadn't ran dry like that he would in his own words have to kill her instead of being able to capture her instead.

True, but considering Kallen herself was able to cause Xingke to vomit blood, Kallen+Todou might just have been enough to cause him to end up killing himself, if the Shen Hu=Tallgeese theory is true. Oh well, it could have worked out either way, I guess....

Also, I LOL'd when Lelouch stated he didn't know how to deal with lolis who are more emotional than logical, but I'm wondering why he didn't just Geass her to announce "I hereby offer amnesty to the Black Knights, and I hereby order the Eunuchs executed for high treason against me". It would have solved quite a lot of the trouble he found himself in....although of course, it's conceivable that Zero's second concubine probably wouldn't appreciate her husband doing that to her friend....

[KiNA]

^ He likes to keep his Geas for the last resort IMHO.

[Chaos2Frozen]

And besides, leaving it to Kaguya seems to be working.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

And besides, leaving it to Kaguya seems to be working.

Im not surprised they are similar in age and she considers Kaguya a friend. Besides Kaguya can use less complicated loli talk to get her to understand.

[demon_god04]

Geassing Tian Zi wouldn't do them much good anyways. It is apparent that the chief eunuchs do not listen to a word she says and run things how they see fit, and they could claim that Tian Zi is being threatened by the Black Knights.

[bladeofdarkness]

Fair enough there are always 2 sides to the same coin. Besides Kallen not waiting long enough to recharge was also a factor in her being captured. But your right Kallen and Guren together are like a token symbol of the BK having both taken would be a huge blow to moral.
Today 07:53

its a blow to moral for a diffrent reason then just the loss of an ace pilot and mecha
soldiers captured by the enemy is always a big moral blow in real life as you can never be sure what could happen to them while held captive
this of course is made infinitly more traumatic when the soldier captured is a woman (just remember what happened with that female soldier who was captured in iraq) as the risk of her being abused goes much higher (much more so when you consider that she is alone) and thinking about that alone is enough reason for concern
while one can say that Xingke is likely a man of honor it doesnt apply to the eunichs and from the looks of it she might end up in their hands
and if she gets handed over to britannia she might not be better off
after all they dont consider captured black knights to be P.O.Ws (gillfort randomly chose to execute hundreds of them just to get zero to show up)
add to that the fact she knows who zero is and she is in a very bad position indeed
zero choosing to risk it all to save her could be seen as a human act more then a stratigic act above all else (i know kallen is not a damsl in distress but still)

[demon_god04]

Well, Lulu can threaten to start mailing them back Tian Zi's body parts if they do anything to Kallen... but I doubt he'd go that far.

[Galerian]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

while one can say that Xingke is likely a man of honor it doesnt apply to the eunichs

I don't think the enoughs will abuse Kallen because she is a woman

As for Kallen, she'll probably be handed to over to the Knights of The Round is Lulu fails to safe her, or simply doesn't find the time do so, with being surrounded and all.
Suzaku, Gino and Anyo are all pretty decent people, some with a little more interest in Kallen than they should have.

So she'll probably be treated ok as far as prison standards go. I do expect her to be hosed down and dressed in some revealing prisonclothes of course.

[Pink-chan]

And so the BK are destined to be held prisoner for at least once including their leader .

[bladeofdarkness]

Well, Lulu can threaten to start mailing them back Tian Zi's body parts if they do anything to Kallen... but I doubt he'd go that far.

the whole point is that he has no way to know what is or isnt done to her
thats part of the moral blow (when you dont know you start to think the worst)
and hurting Tian Zi is out of the qustion for the same reason (can you really think of any of the black knights following him if he says somthing like that)
plus he needs her for the future

I don't think the enoughs will abuse Kallen because she is a woman

like i said
he cant know and thats the problem

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

its a blow to moral for a diffrent reason then just the loss of an ace pilot and mecha
soldiers captured by the enemy is always a big moral blow in real life as you can never be sure what could happen to them while held captive
this of course is made infinitly more traumatic when the soldier captured is a woman (just remember what happened with that female soldier who was captured in iraq) as the risk of her being abused goes much higher (much more so when you consider that she is alone) and thinking about that alone is enough reason for concern
while one can say that Xingke is likely a man of honor it doesnt apply to the eunichs and from the looks of it she might end up in their hands
and if she gets handed over to britannia she might not be better off
after all they dont consider captured black knights to be P.O.Ws (gillfort randomly chose to execute hundreds of them just to get zero to show up)
add to that the fact she knows who zero is and she is in a very bad position indeed
zero choosing to risk it all to save her could be seen as a human act more then a stratigic act above all else (i know kallen is not a damsl in distress but still)

The eunichs in general piss me off even though their schemes at political power and maneuvering is no different than in reality. Ensuring their own positions by selling out the empress and their country. I usually cant stand people who sell out their country for their own benefit because it effects a lot more people. The empress is too young to understand the political stage and taking advantage of her just makes them worse. In my eyes they are no better than the Emperor of Britannia.

[ApostleOfGod]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The eunichs in general piss me off even though their schemes at political power and maneuvering is no different than in reality. Ensuring their own positions by selling out the empress and their country. I usually cant stand people who sell out their country for their own benefit because it effects a lot more people. The empress is too young to understand the political stage and taking advantage of her just makes them worse. In my eyes they are no better than the Emperor of Britannia.

Exactly.
But the Eunichs are less powerful in the real world, aren't they?
And I don't think they're in a position to use a political pet.

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Also, I LOL'd when Lelouch stated he didn't know how to deal with lolis who are more emotional than logical, but I'm wondering why he didn't just Geass her to announce "I hereby offer amnesty to the Black Knights, and I hereby order the Eunuchs executed for high treason against me". It would have solved quite a lot of the trouble he found himself in....although of course, it's conceivable that Zero's second concubine probably wouldn't appreciate her husband doing that to her friend....

Nevermind simply using Geass at this time, but what would Lelouch really accomplish by Geassing Tian Zi -at this moment-?

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The eunichs in general piss me off even though their schemes at political power and maneuvering is no different than in reality. Ensuring their own positions by selling out the empress and their country. I usually cant stand people who sell out their country for their own benefit because it effects a lot more people. The empress is too young to understand the political stage and taking advantage of her just makes them worse. In my eyes they are no better than the Emperor of Britannia.

I'd say the eunuchs are worst then the Emperor. The Emperor is atleast pretty up front, he makes no attempt to cover the fact that in most of his speeches he has basically said that his nation are full of murderers and theives. The Emperor is like a drawn sword pointed at your throat, you know it's there and can fight it, while the eunuchs are like hidden daggers, you don't know when one will be pressed against your back.

[Galerian]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

like i said
he cant know and thats the problem

I was more referring to their lack of Woman-Abusing equipment WINK WINK!

To be honest though: who would you like to run your country? A bunch of experienced ball-less bastards who care for nothing but their own power, or a young little girl? It pains me to say it; but I'll go for the cadre of eunuchs.

I still don't get why the eunuchs want to sell out their empress. They can do as they please as long as the empress is under their control, hasn't the thought occured to them that Britannia will be doing the exact same thing as they have been doing once they posses the empress; running the country in her name? Brittanian titles can't be all that good, right? Of course little empresses, become adult empresses one day, but I'm sure an experienced bunch of eunuchs can deal with that one way or another.

[Ice_Bullet]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

I'd say the eunuchs are worst then the Emperor. The Emperor is atleast pretty up front, he makes no attempt to cover the fact that in most of his speeches he has basically said that his nation are full of murderers and theives. The Emperor is like a drawn sword pointed at your throat, you know it's there and can fight it, while the eunuchs are like hidden daggers, you don't know when one will be pressed against your back.

true. At least the emperor keeps his word. imagine.. if the emperor were to act like the enunches. backstabbing suzaku after the he gives britinnia zero...hey! that would be awesome

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by ApostleOfGod

Nevermind simply using Geass at this time, but what would Lelouch really accomplish by Geassing Tian Zi -at this moment-?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe have her order her soldiers to round up and summarily execute the Eunuchs?

Of course, that's assuming her soldiers will comply as ordered. Besides, some others have made good points about that.

[Galerian]

In defense of ball-less rulers:

I don't think they are exceptionally traiterous. Sure they round up Xingke, once it appears they dont nee dhim any more. Sounds the logical thing to do with a person who tried to overthrow their rule. The only mistake they are making is the fact that contrary to what they think; they still need him.

They also weren't the ones who started their conflict with the Black Knights. Zero betrayed them first by kidnapping their empress, after they had given him an entire islands for his million people.