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Old 2014-06-12, 20:44   Link #1481
Wandering Soul
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Honestly I don't get the people that complain that this show has lolis. It's not like they are sexualized or anything. The closest we came to any of them being sexualized was the scene where Enju wore a towel to dinner. Other than that the lolis in the show are portrayed no differently from any other character in the show each of them compelling in their own way.

As for the people that complain that this is a LN adaptions I honestly don't know what to say. In a way they are admitting to have given up on this series before even giving it a a chance.
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Old 2014-06-12, 20:52   Link #1482
Dark Paladin X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the one above all View Post
As for the people that complain that this is a LN adaptions I honestly don't know what to say. In a way they are admitting to have given up on this series before even giving it a a chance.
Well, LN-based anime having bad reputations is mostly based out of Sword Art Online, which while it's popular, it's infamously known to have the main characters being marty/mary sue with lots of deus ex machina. Sword Art Online had good premise for the first four episodes until episode 5 and later where the viewers started to notice the flaws of the writing and characterization. People thought that Sword Art Online wasn't really that faithful to the LN adaption, but when people actually started to read the SAO LN, they happen to realize that the LN writing happen to be really terrible and the anime really did stay faithful to the bad writing from the LN. And since then, people automatically assumed that any LN-based anime have the original source material to have bad writing.

Now, I'm not saying that the Black Bullet LN writing happens to be terrible (in fact, I find the characterization, plot, storytelling, and philosophy to be 100x better than the other Dengki Bunko titles Sword Art Online and Mahouka combined). The only problem I have with the light novels, is the heavy use of exposition and foreshadowing (which a lot of that was cut off in the anime adaption).
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Old 2014-06-12, 21:03   Link #1483
Haruyasha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the one above all View Post
Honestly I don't get the people that complain that this show has lolis.
People only complain when they are insecure and have something to hide.

Anyhow, it's nice to see that Kagetane is alive. Something tells me he was the one who bombed Rentarou's kids.
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Old 2014-06-12, 21:23   Link #1484
BaronNoir
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Yes, I don't get the sexualized thing either.

If a 10 years old girl tell she loves Justin Bieber and wants to marry him, would anyone think it's ''sexual'' ?
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Old 2014-06-12, 21:25   Link #1485
False Prophet
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@Fireminer: Hahaha! I could see your reasons! But why not all three of them, who could complement for each other?

"Umm... Father?" Seeing their mothers fell headfirst must be an experience to the boys. However, Rentarou simply brushed it away like nothing.

"Just continue with the cooking. I'll take care of them." Rentarou picked up his wives while their children scrambled to the kitchen to finish their job.

"God, when did you become this heavy?"

---

"Tendo Iaido Art: Art Five, Type Ten!"

The knife inside the boy's hand sliced throught a rain of vegetable and meat. Not a moment of hesitate, the blade always find the right place and just the right force. Everything was neatly chopped and stacked, ready to be delivered to his brothers.

---

"The gas tank is empty? Pah... Time to use this!"

A pink beam blazed out from the boy's gun-like machine. Immidiately, the oil and fat of the beef sizzled and salt crackled on the frying pan.

---

"Oh my, did I just put 101 mg of sugar? It should had been 100 mg."

Like a chemist with his experiment, the boy carefully stirred a boiling pot. From it, a pleasant aroma of thyme and presley filled the room. It made people drool in fantasize about its content.

"FOOD!!"

... As that was exactly how the carnivore that were their mothers did.

"Seriously, I glad that my boys don't inherit their gluttony."

"Did I just heard some foul words?"

"Prepare to die tonight, Rentarou!"

"..."

"Hey, why everyone is glaring at me!"
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Old 2014-06-12, 22:34   Link #1486
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That was a really depressing episode. I hope the bastard who bombed those kids dies a horribly painful death. They're supposed to protect garbage like that? There really is no justice here.

Shit hit the fan really fast there. The monolith collapsed one day earlier than it was supposed to.
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Old 2014-06-12, 23:17   Link #1487
Dark Paladin X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronNoir View Post
Yes, I don't get the sexualized thing either.

If a 10 years old girl tell she loves Justin Bieber and wants to marry him, would anyone think it's ''sexual'' ?
None of the lolis are sexualized in this series. In fact, the author keeps fanservice in a very minimal level.

And that's the point I want to make here. How many 10-year-olds you know of have romantic fantasies have romantic fantasies with their older brothers or sisters because the said young sibling is so emotionally attached to his/her older sibling? How many 10-year-olds have fantasies of growing up to be something that s/he will never have a chance of becoming? And how many 10-year-olds have curiosity of the world around him/her? This is a typical mental development for a 10-year-old and Enju happens to perfectly fit that mental development (minus the fact that Enju happens to be very emotionally fragile). It's expected for Enju to have silly romantic fantasies with Rentaro because she's so emotionally attached to him (it also doesn't help to note that Rentaro serves as an older brother type figure to Enju).
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Old 2014-06-12, 23:30   Link #1488
Enternal
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The people I was arguing with before argued:

"And I seriously felt nothing for that class of dead lolis, they were just creepy fetish fuel whose only purpose was to ultimately be stuffed into the fridge for “drama”."
"Yeah, you’re right. That’s exactly what they are. And this is why they’re all girls, because while we might feel somewhat bad if boys faced the same fate, we have to be as calculated and efficient as possible in our tragedies!"
"…so if those girls were actually anything besides creepy wish-fulfillment it might’ve been possible to feel bad about what happened to them."

So when you have someone who argued like that, forget it. There's no more point in arguing. Doesn't matter whether they're boys or girls. When they get blown up like that, it's scary.

@ Dark Paladinx X
Although to be honest, I did feel a bit irked that both Enju and Tina's future wishes was to marry Rentarou. If it was these 2 only, then it's fine but it was a bit worrisome when 3 more lolis declare they want to court him. While it was funny at first, when I thought about it, it felt like obviously they're pandering the loli lovers. BUT that never stopped me to feel grotesque at the scene where the children were blown up. That was not funny no matter the semantics that some bloggers are complaining about.
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Old 2014-06-13, 00:19   Link #1489
Xero8420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
The people I was arguing with before argued:

"And I seriously felt nothing for that class of dead lolis, they were just creepy fetish fuel whose only purpose was to ultimately be stuffed into the fridge for “drama”."
"Yeah, you’re right. That’s exactly what they are. And this is why they’re all girls, because while we might feel somewhat bad if boys faced the same fate, we have to be as calculated and efficient as possible in our tragedies!"
"…so if those girls were actually anything besides creepy wish-fulfillment it might’ve been possible to feel bad about what happened to them."

So when you have someone who argued like that, forget it. There's no more point in arguing. Doesn't matter whether they're boys or girls. When they get blown up like that, it's scary.

@ Dark Paladinx X
Although to be honest, I did feel a bit irked that both Enju and Tina's future wishes was to marry Rentarou. If it was these 2 only, then it's fine but it was a bit worrisome when 3 more lolis declare they want to court him. While it was funny at first, when I thought about it, it felt like obviously they're pandering the loli lovers. BUT that never stopped me to feel grotesque at the scene where the children were blown up. That was not funny no matter the semantics that some bloggers are complaining about.
I'm offended of the word 'creepy'. It's inappropriate and hurtful, because they aren't look creepy at all. Red eyes alone hardy make them a boogeymen.

And being calculative is worse.
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Old 2014-06-13, 01:12   Link #1490
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronNoir View Post
Yes, I don't get the sexualized thing either.

If a 10 years old girl tell she loves Justin Bieber and wants to marry him, would anyone think it's ''sexual'' ?
The show in itself isn't particularly lewd in my opinion for any character to begin with.
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Old 2014-06-13, 02:08   Link #1491
Dengar
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After having watched the episode I felt like skimming through all the 10 or so pages that have been written since then. God this is terrible. Even I'm having trouble holding in the wish to see Rentarou kill those bastards.

Doing the right thing isn't always the most satisfying thing is it?

Too bad killing them or letting them all die won't achieve anything. They'll just die thinking they were killed by some kind of raging lunatic who sides with monsters. That wouldn't be a victory at all. It would make Rentarou just like those million other villains who are thinking they're doing the right thing. (Mithos Yggdrassil from Tales of Symphonia comes to mind)
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Old 2014-06-13, 03:24   Link #1492
Breimoon
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"what, you want to kill some gastreas? Here.come"leave the.lolis there while forcefully enlists the loli killing mob in the army and puts them in first line against invasionnby gastrea.
"Have fun,by the way desertion is punished by.death "
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Old 2014-06-13, 03:54   Link #1493
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
The people I was arguing with before argued:

"And I seriously felt nothing for that class of dead lolis, they were just creepy fetish fuel whose only purpose was to ultimately be stuffed into the fridge for “drama”."
"Yeah, you’re right. That’s exactly what they are. And this is why they’re all girls, because while we might feel somewhat bad if boys faced the same fate, we have to be as calculated and efficient as possible in our tragedies!"
"…so if those girls were actually anything besides creepy wish-fulfillment it might’ve been possible to feel bad about what happened to them."
There are two factors to it, the way I see it.

1) It is an undeniable truth that over the last years, there have been countless lolis added to shows simply in order to have a loli in it. Even if it made no sense whatsoever storywise, adding a loli satisfies a significant share of the potential market. There are people who are annoyed by that, and I need to plead guilty - I've been part of this crowd myself.

2) MANY blogs have changed purpose. In the past, they were ways to express what they enjoyed about their hobby... they wanted to link up with other fans to discuss the shows they loved themselves. However, over time, things changed. Now the focus is less about the shows and more about the blogger. They feel the need to express THEMSELVES, and anime/LNs are only a secondary means to an end anymore.

Generally, their love of anime has mostly dissipated. So, they think they gain recognition and stature if they rip into shows they don't enjoy anymore. This is a proof of being a true veteran, and no mere "fanboy". However, for anime fans, reading blogs with a strongly negative connotation is unpleasant. If you go to a blog aggregator to read about shows you're interested in (in other words: like), you will soon learn that certain blogs are fundamentally negative to all but only a select few shows. Once you recognize their names, you will grow more and more reluctant to go there. So, the fans recede from there. And who remains? Other negative self-promoting bloggers and their crowd, reinforcing each other. They tend to enjoy the takedown of shows which are mirroring their own efforts, and so, the "cesspools" echo-chambers came to be.

My only recommendation would be: Ignore them. In my experience, trying to argue with them and their echo chamber is an exercise in futility. Even if you succeed, in the end they will start to stop approving your comments (interestingly, the worst blogs require moderation) or to outright edit and falsify the content of earlier exchanges.

Instead, stay on those boards where people still roam who enjoy shows. They're getting more rare, but they still do exist
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Old 2014-06-13, 05:53   Link #1494
Xero8420
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Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
There are two factors to it, the way I see it.

1) It is an undeniable truth that over the last years, there have been countless lolis added to shows simply in order to have a loli in it. Even if it made no sense whatsoever storywise, adding a loli satisfies a significant share of the potential market. There are people who are annoyed by that, and I need to plead guilty - I've been part of this crowd myself.

2) MANY blogs have changed purpose. In the past, they were ways to express what they enjoyed about their hobby... they wanted to link up with other fans to discuss the shows they loved themselves. However, over time, things changed. Now the focus is less about the shows and more about the blogger. They feel the need to express THEMSELVES, and anime/LNs are only a secondary means to an end anymore.

Generally, their love of anime has mostly dissipated. So, they think they gain recognition and stature if they rip into shows they don't enjoy anymore. This is a proof of being a true veteran, and no mere "fanboy". However, for anime fans, reading blogs with a strongly negative connotation is unpleasant. If you go to a blog aggregator to read about shows you're interested in (in other words: like), you will soon learn that certain blogs are fundamentally negative to all but only a select few shows. Once you recognize their names, you will grow more and more reluctant to go there. So, the fans recede from there. And who remains? Other negative self-promoting bloggers and their crowd, reinforcing each other. They tend to enjoy the takedown of shows which are mirroring their own efforts, and so, the "cesspools" echo-chambers came to be.

My only recommendation would be: Ignore them. In my experience, trying to argue with them and their echo chamber is an exercise in futility. Even if you succeed, in the end they will start to stop approving your comments (interestingly, the worst blogs require moderation) or to outright edit and falsify the content of earlier exchanges.

Instead, stay on those boards where people still roam who enjoy shows. They're getting more rare, but they still do exist
Nowadays, some blogs even dare to include things they don't like to express their hates and loathes with extreme prejudice. If they don't like it, what's the point to put it into blog? I don't get the purpose of doing so beside getting more social recognition. I wonder when that trend began?

People in internet these days... are very obsessed of self-entitlement and social status, taking their freedom of speech for granted till they unknowingly turning themselves into a horde of obnoxious potheads. But it doesn't mean I'm not one of them either. I used to be one, until I felt an urge to break such a negative habit due to my psychological distress in the past. And I'm guilty of what I've done.

I've seen one blog that did an astounshingly moronic job in such specialty. Whoa, that was the most horrendous among most of the bloggers I ever seen in that blog.
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Old 2014-06-13, 06:04   Link #1495
Dark Paladin X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
There are two factors to it, the way I see it.

1) It is an undeniable truth that over the last years, there have been countless lolis added to shows simply in order to have a loli in it. Even if it made no sense whatsoever storywise, adding a loli satisfies a significant share of the potential market. There are people who are annoyed by that, and I need to plead guilty - I've been part of this crowd myself.

2) MANY blogs have changed purpose. In the past, they were ways to express what they enjoyed about their hobby... they wanted to link up with other fans to discuss the shows they loved themselves. However, over time, things changed. Now the focus is less about the shows and more about the blogger. They feel the need to express THEMSELVES, and anime/LNs are only a secondary means to an end anymore.

Generally, their love of anime has mostly dissipated. So, they think they gain recognition and stature if they rip into shows they don't enjoy anymore. This is a proof of being a true veteran, and no mere "fanboy". However, for anime fans, reading blogs with a strongly negative connotation is unpleasant. If you go to a blog aggregator to read about shows you're interested in (in other words: like), you will soon learn that certain blogs are fundamentally negative to all but only a select few shows. Once you recognize their names, you will grow more and more reluctant to go there. So, the fans recede from there. And who remains? Other negative self-promoting bloggers and their crowd, reinforcing each other. They tend to enjoy the takedown of shows which are mirroring their own efforts, and so, the "cesspools" echo-chambers came to be.

My only recommendation would be: Ignore them. In my experience, trying to argue with them and their echo chamber is an exercise in futility. Even if you succeed, in the end they will start to stop approving your comments (interestingly, the worst blogs require moderation) or to outright edit and falsify the content of earlier exchanges.

Instead, stay on those boards where people still roam who enjoy shows. They're getting more rare, but they still do exist
1) About the loli point, I did noticed that there are more anime that has at least one loli in the show just for the lolicon pandering. At the same time, most of the lolis I normally come aren't portrayed sexually (well, maybe except Ro-Kyu-Bu!, but that's a different story). It also doesn't help to note the fact that Japan, ironically enough, is really harsh when to comes pornographic portrayal of underage characters in mass media.

You also need to understand that the word "loli" have a strong sexual connotation originating from the word "lolicon," which means sexual attraction towards prepubescent girls. Nowadays, with moe coming along, "loli" is used as a shorten word to describe any cute prepubescent or prepubescent looking girl regardless if they are sexualized or not (note the subjectivity of "cute"). Thus being said, the word "loli" still has a negative connotation within the western anime base due to the fact that western anime fans are more openly feminist than Japanese anime fans, and the fact that lolis are often associated with pedophilia. Apparently, this is also one of the reasons why lolicon works are rarely licensed in the U.S. and anime that have lolis in them are rarely dubbed nowadays (with the exception of companies like Sentai Filmworks, who picked up this series, where they are known to be incredibly good at dubbing lolis).

As a fan of cute characters and a anime/video gamer myself (yes, I love cute characters not just lolis, but also certain cute Pokemon and some of the yordle champions, Fizz, Annie, and Kog'Maw in League of Legends), Black Bullet is definitely loli-pandering. However, the author never intends to portray this to be a lolicon work as a central theme. In fact, it's the situation where Enju is hitting on the main male lead rather than the other way around like most lolicon works. The lolicon stuff in Black Bullet is often portrayed for comedic purposes in a very dark serious setting. The biggest appeal to Black Bullet, is the fact that it has loli suffering, and the left leaning politics and philosophical views.

2) As a blogger myself, I'll say that most of stuff we bloggers say about is subjective, or based of our opinions. Yes, we write about shows that we like and we criticize shows that we don't like, but when bloggers often write about when it comes to fictional works are often subjective. If we want to portray our views objectively, we often try to find statistics and data like streaming views, popularity rankings, surveys, and polls etc. to prove our point (although the last two are often skewed to be used as objective data because most of them are often sampled in a small group of people). Heck, I even personally followed people in Twitter who hate this anime and/or don't like dubs at all with me being an English dub fan when it comes to anime and video games (although I had someone who blocked me in Twitter over bitching about me talking about and retweet stuff relating to Black Bullet).

Speaking of English dubs and such, I was planning to post my ideas for the English dub using Youtube clips that contain voice samples from other anime and video games so you guys can get a better understanding of what the character may sound like if Black Bullet gets a dub. However, I need to get approval from the mods themselves because I afraid posting clips (particularly Youtube clips that contain scenes from an anime) may be a copyright infringement and get me banned for posting unofficial content. One of my ideas was Christine Marie Cabanos voicing Enju-chan. I hope you guys don't mind even though the chances of Black Bullet getting a dub is relatively low. But just to let you know that people in the Internet should take their opinion and other people's opinions subjectively unless you can back your opinion up with objective data.
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Old 2014-06-13, 06:14   Link #1496
KholdStare
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Calm down on the circlejerk.

While I agree that fanservice is kept to a minimum and 10 year olds saying they want to marry someone is not "sexualizing them", I feel that Enju is sexualized. Before we go further let's get the definition here, shall we?

Sexualization (or sexualisation) is to make something sexual in character or quality, or to become aware of sexuality, especially in relation to men and women.

1) ...to make something sexual in character or quality? Yes, Enju keeps saying those things every night.
2) ...to become aware of sexuality? Oh yeah Enju does.
3) ...especially in relation to men and women? Yep.

People said that it's expected for Enju to have silly romantic fantasies with Rentaro because she's so emotionally attached to him. And I agree, if Enju was maybe...14+, and if those are private fantasy thoughts. Romantic fantasies at this age involve kissing and going on dates. Romantic fantasies expressed by Enju in the series are nothing short of sexualizing her. Simply put, I don't see 10 year olds saying this shit, so when a writer makes them act more sexual than typical, then the writer is obviously sexualizing said characters.

Of course, this doesn't stop me from enjoying the series, but I feel Enju is sexualized. The girls in the class weren't sexualized. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions but stating my own.
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Old 2014-06-13, 06:20   Link #1497
Xero8420
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Speaking of sexualization, I just don't get how did they [bloggers] got that from. I mean, for me, it's normal for young girls to have a romantic fantasies on someone they like (safer to say this than 'love') and be emotionally attached, not too physically attached. I don't see how a young girl 'sexualized' in such ways. Unless it's to a point of having a desire to make love.

Speaking of which, kindly define 'sexualized'.
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Old 2014-06-13, 06:20   Link #1498
Mentar
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Hm?

Note sure if I was among the people you wanted to address, but I have no problem with Enju at all, I find her adorable! She is so outspoken and honest with herself and others, it is truly endearing. She got her final badge of honor in my eyes when - even though she was badly traumatized last episode, she was able to literally grit her teeth and get on with things. Incredibly impressive.

No, Black Bullet is a show in which "lolis" are used (and unfortunately abused) the "right" way. I have no problem accepting certain weird things (like lolis being super-powered) if it is used to base a storyline on.

And just before things spin out of control the wrong way: I'm not saying the majority or even all anime bloggers walk the "the star is me" cesspool walk. But I feel that many formerly "normal" blogs have degenerated this way.
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Old 2014-06-13, 06:22   Link #1499
Xero8420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Hm?

Note sure if I was among the people you wanted to address, but I have no problem with Enju at all, I find her adorable! She is so outspoken and honest with herself and others, it is truly endearing. She got her final badge of honor in my eyes when - even though she was badly traumatized last episode, she was able to literally grit her teeth and get on with things. Incredibly impressive.

No, Black Bullet is a show in which "lolis" are used (and unfortunately abused) the "right" way. I have no problem accepting certain weird things (like lolis being super-powered) if it is used to base a storyline on.

And just before things spin out of control the wrong way: I'm not saying the majority or even all anime bloggers walk the "the star is me" cesspool walk. But I feel that many formerly "normal" blogs have degenerated this way.
I wonder when that began?

If you roughly know it, could you PM me?
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Old 2014-06-13, 10:53   Link #1500
zero7090
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Join Date: Jul 2007
This really leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I enjoyed my noodle while watching the red wedding but couldnt swallow my burger watching this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Craxuan View Post
If humanity can fight against the Gastrea with conventional weapons and tactics, then the Gastrea-infected people (we're not even talking about children) will be given the same treatment as 'zombies', or 'almost-zombies'. The government will even sanction the rule to kill them on sight - after all, keeping humanity clean from the monster's taint is important, not to mention that the risks are ridiculously high. If anyone of the CC becomes Gastrea for too long, they have the potential of evolving into a level 5 Gastrea.
.
a somewhat wrong comparison.

First of all, we dont know when will the "almost-zombie" change into zombie, but for those children, we did. Secondly, there is no medicine to delay the time for "almost-zombie" change into zombie, but for those children we did.
Just think about how less scary zombie movies are when the bitten people need to wait 14 years to be turned into zombie. They might even remove zombie film from horror gerne.

A more apt comparison would be AIDS.
AIDS infected child can spread the virus, killing people, but under modern knowledge we can stop the spreading of AIDS if the procedures are followed. And do we see people round up AIDS patients and shoot them?

btw: if anyone is unfamiliar with how evil some people can be

Spoiler for picture from unicef:
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