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Old 2018-04-14, 16:16   Link #2081
Kazu-kun
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
If she didn't feel anything at all, would she quietly accept her punishment the way she does?
That's only towards Hiro, her darling. The only person she cares about.

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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Also, I really don't like this whole idea that 02 has 0 agency in this.
I don't either. But the fact is people have to learn to walk before they can run. 02 can't ask for forgiveness when she obviously doesn't feel any remorse. She only feels bad about using her darling because he's the only person she cares about. It's a different thing.
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Old 2018-04-14, 16:25   Link #2082
Twi
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I know we don't have much love for Franxx now, but the Doctor is literally the only reason Hiro and the others have had so much freedom. He arranged the beach trip, he stopped them from upping Hiro's medicine dose before the mindwipe, he stopped Nana from reporting to the higher ups about the kids and puberty. Like it or not, he's got something that they need: Power from a position that's largely unchallenged.

Hiro failed to save Zero Two as a child and she failed to save him because both were powerless. But he has that power and he's willing to go under APE's nose. They just have to make it interesting for him.

I don't like it, but... what else do they have?
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Old 2018-04-14, 16:58   Link #2083
Mistyclear
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I wonder when we’re going to know more about Nana and Hachi...their just there...We don’t know anything about them—one moment they seem to care for the kids and the next they don’t. I want to know more about them at the moment. Better than all the teenage drama/soap opera stuff that’s going on.
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Old 2018-04-14, 17:06   Link #2084
Twi
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Well, Nana we know knew the kids from the Garden. She's shown several times she looks out for them, suggesting the partner swap when Hachi brings up Mitsuru being eligible for pruning, and mentioning she thought Hiro could handle piloting with Zero Two until this episode. Hachi, on the other hand, seems to be pretty to the point when he brings up the necessity of letting Hiro pilot with Zero Two in Episode 6 and how he focuses on the mission at hand.

Nana does look out for the kids in her own way, but she really doesn't like Zero Two, while Hachi just wants things done in accordance to the mission. Both are still indoctrinated to Papa, but if anyone makes a turn for the kids sake, it'd be Nana before Hachi.
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Old 2018-04-14, 17:09   Link #2085
Mistyclear
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^And that’s about it after all these episodes...The kids seemed happy to have Nana, but we don’t know how she met them or what her role was prior to the start of the series, and she didn’t seem to hate Zero Two at first, they arrived at Plantation 13 together and she even talked to her normally with a hint of a smile. Hachi on the other hand hasn’t had anything...

Last edited by Mistyclear; 2018-04-14 at 17:45.
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Old 2018-04-14, 17:42   Link #2086
stray
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Nana seems too high strung to turn but who knows.

The show is very nebulous about where its going and has been reluctant to give us much about the world as a whole... I've been close to dropping it for that reason but the soap opera drama within the group has been engaging lately at least.
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Old 2018-04-14, 18:05   Link #2087
Freya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stray View Post
Nana seems too high strung to turn but who knows.

The show is very nebulous about where its going and has been reluctant to give us much about the world as a whole... I've been close to dropping it for that reason but the soap opera drama within the group has been engaging lately at least.
I'm the opposite of you. The group drama has been beyond annoying. Only thing that's been good has been the progression between 02 and Hiro. Sadly that ended thanks to the dweebs of 13 who really don't know what's going on.
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Old 2018-04-14, 18:09   Link #2088
ramlaen
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Ichigo was the spider all along.
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Old 2018-04-14, 18:10   Link #2089
Sakuratsuki
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I don't know if I can really defend the fact of Ichigo doing what she did. Firstly poor Goro and secondly Ichigo has reached for me the highest level of annoyance this episode. I can't really say if this was just her trying to protect Hiro. To me it looked more like a manipulation of the current situation to get herself on the number 1 spot. The confession of hers at the end killed it for me even more. A clear case of I want the D.

02, well where to start. Firstly I want to know where she got that idea from, killing more Klaux = being more human. There was a fast flashback of her when little facing Papa. I wonder if she got brainwashed right there and then. I think this is quite crucial because if her goal was to kill Klaux (turning more human) and that meant that she needed a stamen, I kinda understand why she would feel nothing about her partners. That explains why she wanted to keep fighting and didn't give anything about others and their well being. It's not like the others did give a damnn about what she did (killing her partners). Looking around the end of the episode, they just provided her with a lot of new stamen to just go wild. So it's not like the damnn adults are trying to teach her ''humanity'' to begin with. They want to use her too.

So 02 clearly had only one goal. If that's so then it's something very sad because looking at the past she had, when she met Hiro and the things that happened after that. Would fall into place. You can say she is crazy or a psychopath. But I would argue that because firstly she is not human and she was aware of it even more after meeting Hiro. And her meeting with Hiro may have been actually a curse instead of a blessing for her.
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Old 2018-04-14, 18:16   Link #2090
firemagnet
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I have a number of thoughts regarding the episode. Twi has already made a large number of valid points, but there were a number of things that stuck out to me.

First was the jarring change in both theme and pacing. One would have expected that there would have been a cooling off period where Zero-Two and Hiro would be able to communicate. Instead, Ichigo takes the opportunity, based both on logical fear and her own emotions, to separate the two and then take Hiro for herself; while it's clear that Ichigo was doing her duty as a leader, it's also quite clear that she's emotionally compromised, opportunistic, and that her command decisions were in no small part due to her selfish desire to have Hiro for herself; Zero-Two has, in her eyes, always been the interloper and now she had the chance to remove said interloper.

However, in separating Hiro and Zero-Two, Ichigo has traded out the linchpin of her squad for a hunch, an assumption based entirely on the idea that since she "loves him just as much and truly cares for him," she can do just as well; we already know from this and the previous episodes that this will end disastrously, with likely fatal consequences for the rest of the team.

The other part was how this episode contrasted with episode 13 to demonstrate how both Hiro and Zero-Two have (or rather haven't) evolved as people. Where episode 13 took from episode 12 to show just how much Hiro influenced Zero-Two and show how all of her actions thus far throughout the series were based on an internal ethos aimed squarely at finding and justifying her place with Hiro, episode 14 capped the arc off by contrasting how they behave now. The results aren't pretty, to say the least. Hiro has matured emotionally, and while he does have his moments, he's also very levelheaded and knows how to pick and choose his battles.

In contrast, Zero-Two has matured intellectually but not emotionally. She knows a hell of a lot more than Hiro or Ichigo, but she doesn't truly understand and--as the previous episode made clear--she's largely aping what Hiro showed her. This is most ably demonstrated by her emotional outbursts, where she participates in fundamentally self-destructive acts until her emotional stress becomes so great that she finally directs the violence outwards, first towards things and then towards others; this is boosted by her upbringing, where we see her being tortured regularly, such that she is fundamentally incapable of trusting or caring for others who haven't previously shown her affection. Hence the reason why she believes that teammates are useless, as most everyone around her has subjected her to some form of violence.............all except for Hiro. As she aptly comments "he's the only thing I have left." In truth, he's the only thing she ever had, period, which explains her laser-like focus on finding and securing him for herself by any means necessary. In fact, it's only with this episode that she finally begins to understand Hiro and really respond to him......and even then only because nothing else works and because she now knows who he is. Of course, events have no contrived to keep them apart, perhaps permanently.

The third thing that struck me was the date. In Hiro's hospital room, we see that in the universe of darling in the franxx, it's presently the beginning of February. Events thus far have largely tracked with the cold opening from episode 1, meaning that within the course of the next few episodes, events will likely conspire to reunite Hiro and Zero-Two again, with Zero-Two having gained a much more human form again thanks to the sacrifice of dozens of stamens. We know, however, that by the end of the series her actions will have her in the Garden under the misletoe tree, surrounded by klaxosaurs just a few months later. It seems that the audience is being set up for a tragedy.

Finally, it's clear that 9 alpha has his own plans; since he mentions humans as an abstract, it's easy to conclude that he's a lot like Zero-Two; that either he has been modified or he himself was never human in the first place. Whatever 9 alpha is planning it isn't good, and it will likely be in direct contravention to the goals of humanity as a whole.
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Old 2018-04-14, 18:26   Link #2091
Sakuratsuki
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It's not like the adults are showing her a good way to interact with people normally..... I mean at the end of the episode they provided her with a batch of Stamen and told her, here ya go and go wild. If there are people who still think that she is to blame for all that (her killing her partners and feeling nothing about it) then I have nothing else to say.
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Old 2018-04-14, 18:33   Link #2092
SeaDoor
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While all this drama is being played out among the main cast, the questions surrounding the motives and methods of the adults remain. The world needs some further fleshing out, IMO. Of course they could be holding it for a surprise moment prior to the last few episodes but who knows at this point.

BTW: Viewing 02's actions in human terms seems off a bit considering how much is being made of her inhumanity.
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Old 2018-04-14, 18:34   Link #2093
firemagnet
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Originally Posted by Sakura_Tsuki View Post
It's not like the adults are showing her a good way to interact with people normally..... I mean at the end of the episode they provided her with a batch of Stamen and told her, here ya go and go wild. If there are people who still think that she is to blame for all that (her killing her partners and feeling nothing about it) then I have nothing else to say.
Keep in mind, this is how she was treated for most of her life; used, tortured, and then allowed to use others without regard for consequences. That doesn't make for an emotionally mature person, and I'm coming from the perspective of dating someone within the last ten years who displayed about the same level of emotional maturity as Zero-Two does. In the case of this person, it literally took laying out the consequences for various actions in order to get her to change, and even then it was a constant battle to manage her, just like with Zero-Two.

Actually, Zero-Two is frankly the most realistic depiction of a character with a similar background that i've seen in a long time; neglected, harmed, trust issues, emotionally immature, constantly needing reassurance or support, laserlike focus on goals that accomplish emotional or physical security, and a viciously destructive attitude both to themselves and the people who care about them.

Edit:

Holy crud I just realized something. At 00:44 in episode 14, Hiro says "you were there, waiting for me, under that tree." Judging by the opening scene, we can infer that not only was Zero-Two fully aware that Hiro was likely her darling all along, but that after they had their memories wiped, she kept waiting for him under that mistletoe tree, come rain or shine. We see her again, waiting for him, in the cold opening of episode 1. Just think about that for a moment...

Last edited by firemagnet; 2018-04-14 at 18:57.
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Old 2018-04-14, 19:00   Link #2094
Kanon
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That... was not what I expected to happen after last week's really fantastic episode. That was pretty ugly all around.

Even though it frustrated me because it would have likely solved everything, I could understand why Ichigo refused to let Zero Two meet with Hiro. As far as she knew, Zero Two had been manipulating Hiro all along and had just attempted to kill him like she killed all those stamens. Of course she wouldn't want to let her near him after this. However, her actions at the end of the episode were plain wrong. Preventing Hiro from trying to patch things up with Zero Two and using this opportunity to try to land him was really low and selfish.

Zero Two is of course far from innocent either. She's been playing Hiro like a fiddle from the start. She's regretting her actions now, but she cares only about him and gives no fuck about her teammates, treating them like trash and going as far as beating them up when things didn't go her way. I find her easier to forgive because of the horrible life she's had, but she was definitely in the wrong as well.

In short, both girls were at their worst in this ep.

I want to say one thing that nobody seems to have brought up: I thought it was terrible writing that Hiro just so happened to have escaped his room to go see Zero Two right when Zero Two was allowed to visit him by the others. That's some real awful timing, huh? I don't like using that term, but that reeked of forced drama.
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Old 2018-04-14, 19:06   Link #2095
kampfer91
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Ichigo being manipulated by the 9 and her own feeling ( or her thirst for the D ) trying to snatch Hiro for herself , she is not the only one who being reckless here .

What if the 9 is lying to her ( partly ) ? What the saurification do to a human anyways ?

And what so important about the Grand Crate ( the next battle location ) ? What APE is seeking there ? May be it is a Klaxxosaur nesting ground ?

Hiro gonna need more helps to stop 02 from her current self-loathing .
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Old 2018-04-14, 19:14   Link #2096
erneiz_hyde
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I just remembered who 02 reminds me of. Lucy from Elfen Lied. Can't believe it took me this long to realize that, but it has been more than a decade ago
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Old 2018-04-14, 19:26   Link #2097
Twi
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I want to say one thing that nobody seems to have brought up: I thought it was terrible writing that Hiro just so happened to have escaped his room to go see Zero Two right when Zero Two was allowed to visit him by the others. That's some real awful timing, huh? I don't like using that term, but that reeked of forced drama.
It seemed obvious to me though. I mean, we see him planning to escape the moment before Ichigo came in. Then when he asked she leave the knife, I was like "and there's how he's getting out". The moment that Miku said that it was quiet, I knew he was gone. What I didn't expect was for Zero Two to kick all of them around after they decided to give her a chance. I expected her to jump out of the window and track him down before they could.
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Old 2018-04-14, 19:52   Link #2098
Mangonel
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God dammit ichigo

Edit: I figured out why this episode frustrated me so much, after last eps reveals its basically given me emotional blue balls. All that setup for a heart to heart just to have it denied.
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Old 2018-04-14, 20:34   Link #2099
kampfer91
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Only Goro and Kokoro know what up with 02 and give the right solution but bad timing ,Ichigo just have to make it worse .
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Old 2018-04-14, 21:11   Link #2100
firemagnet
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Originally Posted by Mangonel View Post
God dammit ichigo

Edit: I figured out why this episode frustrated me so much, after last eps reveals its basically given me emotional blue balls. All that setup for a heart to heart just to have it denied.
Same. I was expecting a glorious heart to heart between the two, and then Ichigo gets in the way....and then gets rejected by the end of the episode.
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