AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2018-09-10, 10:02   Link #6581
AstroNerdBoy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuhugm View Post
^Japanese immortals suck

Just see all isekai immortal heroines
None of them knows love until meeting the MC
lol
Haha! Which is why Karin will be in the Touta formal battle harem by the time all is said and done.
__________________
--> AstroNerdBoy's Anime and Manga Blog - Come on by to read my blather about anime and manga! 🤪

--> AstroNerdBoy on YouTube! - Where I mostly do gaming videos. Help me hit my subscription goals by subscribing today! 😁

--> AstroNerdBoy on Twitch! - Currently, streaming every Friday night at 9pm ET/6pm PT. Impromptu streams when FGO events are going on. Love to see you there! 😆

AstroNerdBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 11:40   Link #6582
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixth View Post
I feel that most of the immortal in this series doesn't use their lifetime wisely. Despite that they had been living that long, their power level is not impressive.

In one of the chinese manga I have read in the past, the main antagonist has lived like 500,000 years old and he is actually a knowledgeable, strong and almost unbeatable. He always training non-stop and always keep up with the new era and time. so he won't be outdated.
Isn't that opposite? What's the point of becoming strong fighter if practicaly noone can kill you anyway. If there were immortal who has hobby of doing martial arts I can see him/her master them all, but otherwise there is so much other things to do.

If I was immortal, I wouldn't be much stronger then I am now, I would be just be guy who read few thousands more books...
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 12:24   Link #6583
Sixth
Nobita
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Isn't that opposite? What's the point of becoming strong fighter if practicaly noone can kill you anyway. If there were immortal who has hobby of doing martial arts I can see him/her master them all, but otherwise there is so much other things to do.

If I was immortal, I wouldn't be much stronger then I am now, I would be just be guy who read few thousands more books...
That guy has a god complex and he never underestimates his enemy. He is one of the rare types who believe that "a new generation will surpass the old generation" thing so he always comes well-prepared when he facing his enemy.

Also, that guy is a martial artist but at the same time, he learns and does a lot of things with his immortal life. He learned enough to be a great scientist and engineer. He also constructed his own floating fortress in the past and engineering a bio-life form to guard his floating fortress. That is what an Immortal should do. At least try to master in everything instead of doing nothing for thousand years and then got jobbed to a mortal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuhugm View Post
^Japanese immortals suck

Just see all isekai immortal heroines
None of them knows love until meeting the MC
lol
True enough. At least all the Chinese immortal manga that I have read, all those immortal women slept with, at least, hundreds of men in their lifetime. Same goes for the immortal men.
Sixth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 12:38   Link #6584
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Yeah, abnormal guys like that exist (and are boring in fiction), anyway people can master martial arts, graduate from multiple school and travel across world even with normal lifespam, but majority go to work, then go home and watch some tv. Immortal in the end are regular guys who just happen to have much more time to waste. For every immortal who seek perfections there will be hundred who just use it watch all episodes of Guiding light and General hospital instead.

Whether you use your time meaningfully or wastefully doesn't depend on how much time you have... nah that's wrong. Actually less time person have more pressed they are to use it meaningfuly. Your regular immortal would probably procrastinate century before starting learning karate, then he would quit after week just because it's too hard. That's how people are.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 12:43   Link #6585
wuhugm
Confused Shark
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Atlantis
^^
^You would've thought that someone who had lived for centuries has countless life experiences

Even if she never be with a man, at least she had loved someone before, lost someone precious to her, etc

But in isekai things, the elves and other immortals are just like innocent school girls, you just don't see the "wisdom" acquired from longevity, doesn't make any sense
wuhugm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 12:55   Link #6586
NapoleonDeCheese
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
The immortals who belong to the UQ Holder organization are supposed to be fighters, at least the elite field agents like Karin. I can get why the random underlings working at the inn who don't even get names and Kirie, who is a support member, financer and walking Deus Ex Machina, shouldn't be expected to have intensive training and fighting skill, but members like Karin should be well honed from all that time spent fighting, since that's why they are in those roles in the first place.
NapoleonDeCheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 13:21   Link #6587
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Karin also has most potent immortality. She can zombie through pretty much any enemy. Among all immortals she is least dependant on actual skill. She got some and it's relatively impressive, but there probably wasn't much reason improve.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 13:56   Link #6588
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese View Post
The immortals who belong to the UQ Holder organization are supposed to be fighters, at least the elite field agents like Karin. I can get why the random underlings working at the inn who don't even get names and Kirie, who is a support member, financer and walking Deus Ex Machina, shouldn't be expected to have intensive training and fighting skill, but members like Karin should be well honed from all that time spent fighting, since that's why they are in those roles in the first place.
Karin isn't exactly weak, she's just not at Ala Rubra level. Tenzen12 has a point, she probably felt no need to get really powerful because she's immortal. It's not like she had a great Master and people hunting her down to make her stronger like Eva.
__________________




Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.
Endscape is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 15:12   Link #6589
NapoleonDeCheese
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
By now we've seen there are several powerful enemies who can get around Karin's immortality and find ways to defeat her regardless. Hell, the Mage of the Beginning, the being UQ Holder literally exists to fight (well, among other things) is one of them, and Evangeline knows that well.

I don't really want to believe she never ran into anyone like that before, or that UQ Holder as an organization is inept enough to overlook all those angles when they are supposed to be long lived, seen-it-all prodigies who should know better than to understimate anyone and demand anything but the best from their forces.
NapoleonDeCheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 15:19   Link #6590
XFire
150% done
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
It's not like everyone can get that powerful just by training. There's a clear dividing line between "regular" fighters and the strongest class that goes beyond just the time spent. Unless you either have something that pushes you over that gap or are one of the idiot geniuses you're stuck on the other side regardless of time spent.
__________________
XFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 15:39   Link #6591
Void
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
I've been reading the last few pages, and I feel like being trapped in the Groundhog Day setting.

Word of advice. Don't make even the smallest suggestion that UQ Holder is a sequel to Negima unless you want to trigger someone and waste a few more pages
Void is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 15:53   Link #6592
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese View Post
By now we've seen there are several powerful enemies who can get around Karin's immortality and find ways to defeat her regardless. Hell, the Mage of the Beginning, the being UQ Holder literally exists to fight (well, among other things) is one of them, and Evangeline knows that well.

I don't really want to believe she never ran into anyone like that before, or that UQ Holder as an organization is inept enough to overlook all those angles when they are supposed to be long lived, seen-it-all prodigies who should know better than to understimate anyone and demand anything but the best from their forces.
I don't think it would all that odd if she didn't run into an abundance of enemies like that, and even if she did, that doesn't mean she has to get super strong to fight them when she could just run away.
__________________




Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.
Endscape is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 16:03   Link #6593
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Or just let them beat her until they get annoyed and leave...
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 16:12   Link #6594
NapoleonDeCheese
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I don't think it would all that odd if she didn't run into an abundance of enemies like that, and even if she did, that doesn't mean she has to get super strong to fight them when she could just run away.
One enemy is all that it takes, when that enemy is of a large enough scale.

And often, especially with larger scope villains, 'just running away' means you've just let the bad guy win and others will pay the price (granted, often the organization just doesn't care about the lesser beings who get hurt or killed, our heroes, everybody, but that's a whole different set of issues). Running away and saving your hide is okay when you're just on your own and don't care about others, but when you are part of an allegedly important organization and have responsibilities carrying allegedly important missions for them, just going "well, I couldn't do it so I just ran away" is not good enough.

UQ Holder as a manga, since most of the good guys can't be killed or are very hard to kill, has to substain tension through other things besides mere survival of the cast.
NapoleonDeCheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 16:47   Link #6595
Shippuu
The Insatiable
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese View Post
UQ Holder as a manga, since most of the good guys can't be killed or are very hard to kill, has to substain tension through other things besides mere survival of the cast.
It will never have tension for as long as Kirie, Dana and Chao exist.
I loathe time manipulation so much. It always leaves too many what-ifs and why-didn't-theys and when the author attempts a justification it is always hollow, if he bothers at all. Bringing time into your story is always a stupid idea. It's never worth it.

It already ruined Negima, its mindboggling Ken continues to use it so heavily.
Shippuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 16:54   Link #6596
bhl88
Otaku Apprentice
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Unseen Horizon
Send a message via MSN to bhl88 Send a message via Yahoo to bhl88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuhugm View Post
^Japanese immortals suck

Just see all isekai immortal heroines
None of them knows love until meeting the MC
lol
Or
They knew love.... after long years, they didn't care anymore.
Then the MC got it back
__________________
OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3
bhl88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 17:10   Link #6597
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese View Post
One enemy is all that it takes, when that enemy is of a large enough scale.

And often, especially with larger scope villains, 'just running away' means you've just let the bad guy win and others will pay the price (granted, often the organization just doesn't care about the lesser beings who get hurt or killed, our heroes, everybody, but that's a whole different set of issues). Running away and saving your hide is okay when you're just on your own and don't care about others, but when you are part of an allegedly important organization and have responsibilities carrying allegedly important missions for them, just going "well, I couldn't do it so I just ran away" is not good enough.

UQ Holder as a manga, since most of the good guys can't be killed or are very hard to kill, has to substain tension through other things besides mere survival of the cast.
Against such "large scope villains" you need use big guns and Karin simply isn't one. She is still asset regardless. If "allegedly important organisation" sent their agent onto mission he/she can't handle it's failure of organisation alone and agent is simply one who pay for it first.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 17:10   Link #6598
NapoleonDeCheese
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
It will never have tension for as long as Kirie, Dana and Chao exist.
I loathe time manipulation so much. It always leaves too many what-ifs and why-didn't-theys and when the author attempts a justification it is always hollow, if he bothers at all. Bringing time into your story is always a stupid idea. It's never worth it.

It already ruined Negima, its mindboggling Ken continues to use it so heavily.
Chao's time travel was very limited, at least.

During Mahorafest it only could take you a very short time back, and even when it's useful for long spans of time it depends on very narrow windows of access to it, that was, whenever the World Tree was feeling like doing it.

The literal only time in all of Negima where it felt like a Deus Ex Machina was at the very end, and by then all of the narrative had unraveled already anyway.

Quote:
Against such "large scope villains" you need use big guns and Karin simply isn't one.
... in pretty much any manga the literally unkillable trained fighter with a sharp mind and literal centuries of experience would and should be a big gun. That she isn't here is mostly a matter of bad writing over plot believability, especially when the 'big guns' who should be handling most of the really big stuff seen so far, for 150 chapters, have mostly been doing jack and spit off panel. Heck, the overpowered character who has done the most for the team (Dana) is not even an actual part of the team, which is all sorts of terrible structure in what concerns to the narrative and the inner lore of the concept.
NapoleonDeCheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 17:32   Link #6599
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese View Post
One enemy is all that it takes, when that enemy is of a large enough scale.
Why would it? Assuming she did meet an enemy like that, that's no guarantee she'll take that as motivation to increase her skills

Quote:
And often, especially with larger scope villains, 'just running away' means you've just let the bad guy win and others will pay the price
What makes you think she was fighting that sort of big shot enemy before now?

Quote:
Running away and saving your hide is okay when you're just on your own and don't care about others, but when you are part of an allegedly important organization and have responsibilities carrying allegedly important missions for them, just going "well, I couldn't do it so I just ran away" is not good enough.
Honestly, I think she was probably just fine with the skills she has now before. It's certainly not odd or unthinkable that she didn't really seek to push herself to new heights. Not everyone has that interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese View Post
... in pretty much any manga the literally unkillable trained fighter with a sharp mind and literal centuries of experience would and should be a big gun.
You're making assumptions here. There's nothing to say that she's been spending all those years fighting, or if she did that she was fighting really powerful people she couldn't handle with her immortality and her current skills.
__________________




Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.
Endscape is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-10, 17:36   Link #6600
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Centuries experience of what? Fighting every few decades some mobs? How that makes anyone big gun? That she isn't op is perfectly reasonable, she did not need be supreme fighter to deal with majority of threats, because her immortality and just joining organization will not make anyone walking nuke. It's your expectation that is unrealistic, not writing.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, comedy, harem, mother-con, negima, sequel, time travel, waiting for love

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.