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Old 2017-12-19, 14:10   Link #6041
4th Dimension
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And you have a third group. Me.

I love Negima, and would love to see more of it. But I don't want to read a series where tge characters I love are bad guys for no reason, and contrary to their characterization.

So if I can't get a PROPER continuation in a non-crapsack continuity, I would REALLY like for UQ to do it's own thing and actually give us more wierd immortals and their abilities and problems. And bringing in cameo or two from old Negima crew, from those that realistically are still alive would be fine with me too. But UQ REALLY needs ti find it's own conflict. And they kinda allready have it. What with Fate meaning to give everyone immortality.

But nooo. We have to reuse both the fightstle AND the antagonist FOR REASONS.
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Old 2017-12-19, 14:58   Link #6042
NAJ P. Jackson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Dimension View Post
And you have a third group. Me.

I love Negima, and would love to see more of it. But I don't want to read a series where tge characters I love are bad guys for no reason, and contrary to their characterization.

So if I can't get a PROPER continuation in a non-crapsack continuity, I would REALLY like for UQ to do it's own thing and actually give us more wierd immortals and their abilities and problems. And bringing in cameo or two from old Negima crew, from those that realistically are still alive would be fine with me too. But UQ REALLY needs ti find it's own conflict. And they kinda allready have it. What with Fate meaning to give everyone immortality.

But nooo. We have to reuse both the fightstle AND the antagonist FOR REASONS.
There is no third group. You fall in line with the group who thinks UQ Holder should do it's own thing and not reuse old Negima characters.
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Old 2017-12-19, 23:38   Link #6043
Oberstein
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UQ HOLDER suffers same fate like YU-GI-OH ARC-V they became victims of badly attempt of series assimilation for sake to deconstruct legacy series only end up to ruining the current series itself.
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Old 2017-12-20, 04:44   Link #6044
4th Dimension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson View Post
There is no third group. You fall in line with the group who thinks UQ Holder should do it's own thing and not reuse old Negima characters.
I think you misunderstood me, or I did not explain myself properly.
I do NOT mind the reuse of Negima characters. In fact I said basically that in my comment. I mind the twisting of the beloved characters into a pretzel just to make them into bad guys. I would not mind if Negi, and whoever actually had immortality or is ridiculously old to still pop up from time to time as people in power and such, and give is a call back or two, or an awesome moment or two from them.
And as such, I am not part of the camp that has been, I'm sorry about this, whining about there being a Negima flashback and such lately. That was perfectly cool to me. I would agree that this might not be the right place to put the Negima ending, but given the actual ending of Negima, I'm glad we finally got it.

But while I'm totally fine with Negima characters popping up where they should (and Incho, and various semi and full supernatural beings/girls definitelly should pop up some time) in the end of it all UQ needs to stand on it's OWN two feet. And it will NEVER be able to do that if both the MC powers and the antagonist and her dragon have been borrowed from Negima. And both were needed to be twisted, Negi and his group MUCH more, to make the square peg fit the round hole.

I hope now it's understandable why I, and those like me are the centrist option. We just want for UQ to do it's own thing, to run on it's own legs without having to rely on poorly made crutches made by chopping up and nastily gluing together characters we liked.
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Old 2017-12-21, 08:46   Link #6045
silenceblade
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I feel the are many inconsistency in this UQ Holder (mainly the time travel part). Touta travelled in the past and met Eva, but the timeline they are in was altered by Chao. There are numerous immortals and secret societies in the world, yet rather than relying on them, the Crimson Wing forced Negi to carry the fate of the magical world. Negi had no interest in saving the magical world (it was the Crimson Wing's responsibility after all), so why was it automatic that Negi (when he should have walked his own path) would save the magical world?

Everyone feared the Mage of the Beginning as the most powerful class of wizard in existence, yet she was unable to accomplish her goals even once? The only thing I know for certain is that "the white of mars" is essential to the magical world.
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Old 2017-12-21, 10:05   Link #6046
4th Dimension
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Well the central conceit of UQ Holder's timeline is that the divergence point is the day Asuna was sealed. In Negima Chao travels brings her back after her sleep, and this causes the divergence with the UQ timeline where that doesn't happen.

So pretty much anything we see in the UQ past before the divergence point, we have to assume happened in Negima too.

Which are bits of retcon I don't particularly care for since it's a way to retroactively make changes to Negi/Nagi/Eva relationship triangle. And UQ also tries to strengthen the Negi/Eva link far more than it was in Negima.

As for Ialda, yeah, not a fan of reusing her too as antagonist. In Negima her role made sense. She was the mistress of the Magical world and it's closest thing to God there, which kinda explained why and how come noone from that side could do anything against her and it had to fall to Terrans. Also her plan was actually not bad IF there was no other alternative to the imminent Magical World collapse. So she was a well intentioned extremist at best/worst.

Here? There is NO indication that there is ANY clear, present and IMMINENT danger that would require the death and destruction her group is willing to sow. Pretty much everyone agrees that there are injustices, but they are the type of thing that happened before and will happen more in future.
So the only explanation is that she was driven mad by the dead.
Which makes Negi mind controlled into "evil" by a crazy person with no proper goal.
Which also makes annoying and painfull to read any rant by Cutlass or member of their faction about how they are going to "save" the world.
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Old 2017-12-21, 11:08   Link #6047
Oberstein
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Anyway perhaps it's a good things anime adaptation turned BADLY so it can give Ken a good beatdown why he should stop mixed up Negima and UQ holder. (Hopefully)
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Old 2017-12-21, 11:10   Link #6048
Sixth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxis View Post
Anyway perhaps it's a good things anime adaptation turned BADLY so it can give Ken a good beatdown why he should stop mixed up Negima and UQ holder. (Hopefully)
Ken Akamatsu's curse is absolute.
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Old 2017-12-21, 12:24   Link #6049
Void
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxis View Post
Anyway perhaps it's a good things anime adaptation turned BADLY so it can give Ken a good beatdown why he should stop mixed up Negima and UQ holder. (Hopefully)
Implying a badly adapted animation where the author's only involvement is in the name has anything to do with the original product setting.

Ha! You wished.
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Old 2017-12-21, 12:55   Link #6050
Oberstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knighto View Post
Implying a badly adapted animation where the author's only involvement is in the name has anything to do with the original product setting.

Ha! You wished.
Did you admitted this is bad too? i was under impression you were cool with Negima 2.0.
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Old 2017-12-21, 13:25   Link #6051
NapoleonDeCheese
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Originally Posted by Knighto View Post
a badly adapted animation where the author's only involvement is in the name
No, it has been stated several times Akamatsu was supposed to have more creative input this time around.

I wish fans stopped making excuses for him all the time and admit that, while all other parties involved have had their own share of faults too, he's not the always absolutely flawless party while everyone in the world of manga and anime apparently complots against his vision.

The fact the 'the whole of Class 3-A shows up for a gratuitous display of mostly useless gimmicks in the climax until the situation is solved by a Deus Ex Machina' resolution keeps repeating in the anime by Xebec, Shaft and JC Staff, besides Negima Neo, where the only constant between all of them is Akamatsu Ken himself, should tell us something.
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Old 2017-12-21, 14:06   Link #6052
Void
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxis View Post
Did you admitted this is bad too? i was under impression you were cool with Negima 2.0.
Yeah, I'm totally okay. In fact, I must be the only one who seems to have no beef with this plot being a direct sequel.

But the anime adaptation is as bad as Negima's.
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Old 2017-12-21, 14:08   Link #6053
4th Dimension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knighto View Post
Implying a badly adapted animation where the author's only involvement is in the name has anything to do with the original product setting.

Ha! You wished.
NapoleonDeCheese is right I think. There has been mentions that he did have more creative freedom here, so this might be his creation entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixth View Post
Ken Akamatsu's curse is absolute.
That it is. No matter what happens, the adaptation HAS to suck at least a little. I wonder who did he have to sacrifice for those couple of OVA's to NOT be terrible.

In any case, I wouldn't say the anime was 100% terrible. The initial idea of where to aim for the finale absolutely was pants on the head INSANE.

But once that decision was made, apart from the aforementioned ghastly 3A scene in the final episode, the anime wasn't that bad, given that it has seemingly been animated by some bloody amateurs and for peanuts. The cutting of it, given where they needed to end up, wasn't that bad. It was FAAAR better than some adaptations that BUTCHERED the plot for NO REASON AT ALL.
That being said, the stupid creepy GOT TO HAVE THEM ALL solution does turn up ALL too often IMO, for it NOT to be a Ken related thing.
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Old 2017-12-21, 14:17   Link #6054
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It doesn't even make the 3-A girls looks good. From their inane antics while battling the demons in Xebec's finale to the utter idiocy of hitting Mars in Shaft's movie to them idiotically firing a stripping satellite on themselves in UQ Holder, these climaxes only make the Ala Alba girls look the part of incompetent morons time and time again, and Kotaro like a no-show non-entity while we're at it.

If they at least were shown as the competent fighters of legend they are supposed to become, at least it could make up for the repetitive plot gimmick through all these climaxes, but they aren't even good at it. Even in the 'good timeline' flashback in UQ's manga, all they really do after being summoned is striking single panel 'cool' poses while fighting random mooks and then bam, it's all over as soon as it started. These things just keep doing a disservice to the characters.
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Old 2017-12-22, 02:47   Link #6055
4th Dimension
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I would argue that that scene could work to a degree for at least comedy IF the studio doing it knew what they are doing, and made it beat MUCH faster. That scene needed to be MUCH MORE chaotic. hell simply removing all the quiet padding in it, would probably improve it.

But firing the satellite on themselves is STUPID in ANY case. It's stupid because it seems to happen for no reason, OR because Chisame's mices somehow hack the satellite for reasons. Which is dumb in it's own right.
And in the end it's dumb because as we have allready seen, the space cannon had trouble beating FATE 80 years ago, and he just shrugged it off even with no warning it was coming in UQ. That should not be the weapon one would expect to work on Negi.

Well, the UQ flashback was much more about Negi and Nagi being ridiculous on the surface of that asteroid. Which is blantant because the plot makes sure to remove ANYBODY else that could interfeere. Fate is fighting the demons, Kotokaro is guarding non combatants that shouldn't even have been there, and for some reason Asuna is FAAAR away and they STILL started the fight without her for reasons. So the setup is kinda dumb. But that doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day this was more a Nagi/Negi thing than 3A thing. And if he wanted to give all of them their shot, he wold need to dedicate much more of UQ to it than couple chapters. Probably something as long as the vs Fate finale of Negima. And this was supposed to be a sidething, just to give some conclusion to Negima fans as a side note.
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Old 2017-12-22, 03:17   Link #6056
SilverGlavenus
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I want to believe that UQ Holder is undergoing a "transitional stage". It's like the start of the Mars arc back in Negima. Gosh, it was slow and boring.
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Old 2017-12-22, 07:27   Link #6057
NapoleonDeCheese
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Dimension View Post
But firing the satellite on themselves is STUPID in ANY case. It's stupid because it seems to happen for no reason, OR because Chisame's mices somehow hack the satellite for reasons. Which is dumb in it's own right.
Yeah, in the manga it kind of worked (as bad as that arc was) because it happened in a totally different context, during a struggle between friends with no real life or death stakes. Here, the anime once again takes a scene, changes the context around it while leaving the scene itself the same, and the scene stops making sense because of it.

Quote:
I want to believe that UQ Holder is undergoing a "transitional stage". It's like the start of the Mars arc back in Negima. Gosh, it was slow and boring.
A transitional stage that lasts more than 140 chapters?
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Old 2017-12-22, 08:59   Link #6058
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^Nah, the start of UQ was good. I thought it was gonna focus only on Touta's and the holders' stories, you know, like doing missions, meeting all kinds of immortals and stuffs. I didn't expect the last boss to be Negi and that he appeared kinda soon in the story.
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Old 2017-12-22, 23:47   Link #6059
silenceblade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Dimension View Post
Well the central conceit of UQ Holder's timeline is that the divergence point is the day Asuna was sealed. In Negima Chao travels brings her back after her sleep, and this causes the divergence with the UQ timeline where that doesn't happen.

So pretty much anything we see in the UQ past before the divergence point, we have to assume happened in Negima too.
The original timeline was Chao's timeline (where earth and mar had a hundred year war), the second timeline was where Chao revealed the existence of magic, the third timeline was Asuna being sealed away, the fourth timeline is Asuna returning to Negima.

UQ holder seem to be based off the third timeline, but in reality is a different timeline all together.
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Old 2017-12-23, 16:37   Link #6060
NapoleonDeCheese
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Generally it's not a good thing when your readers need to be periodically reminded if what your characters are doing now lines up with what they were shown doing a few chapters ago or not. It means you've just made a mess out of your own continuity, or at least complicated it more than necessary.
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