Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by June 1983

Hmmm ... I could have sworn there were scenes in the VN when he turned into butterflies, too.

Same here. At the very least, I think there are scenes that describe him as disappearing into shadows, which I always took as melting into them and appearing elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Key Board

The way the anime handled it,

Gouda's last stand was much bettter than Rosa's stand

I think the anime staff favors Gouda

Entirely reasonable. Magical Chef Gohda is far better than Rosa and should be more favored than she.

Originally Posted by jeroz

Spoiler for is it still necessary to put those into spoilers?:

Genji going outside? What for? Also the fact that he discovers the bodies (though I think he's the only one possible under the circumstances) cast a bit more suspicion on his role.
Bloody handprints!? Interestingly on the same door as in EP1.

Spoiler for You raise to good points:

Based on the evidence so far, if a human was involved with the murders in Episode 2, then Genji was at least an accomplice. Too many things would only be possible for a human killer if Genji was helping out/the killer himself.
Very good point about the bloody handprints being on the same door. This lends some support to the idea that the red symbols on the doors are similar to invisible ink.

Originally Posted by Tamad

Anyways, I rewatched the episode and now realized that the Epitaph continues to not make sense as it did in the first game. Unless my memory fails me in my old age, the third twilight (those who remain shall praise my honorable name on high) never happened? The only time I remember people praising Beatrice's name was during the scene in the chapel with all the adults, but that was before the first twilight even happened. The sixth twilight (gouge the stomach and kill) didn't seem to have happened either... since Kanon and Jessica were the second twilight, Nanjo and Kumasawa were gouged in the leg and knee, Shannon was gouged in the head, and both Gohda and George were gouged in the chest. Anyone with more intelligence than I care to elaborate on what I overlooked? Or is the Epitaph just as inconsistent with itself in the VN as well?

It's not just you; I pointed out the lack of the 3rd twilight so far in the previous episode's thread. Beatrice must be a rather sloppy witch to mess up her own resurrection ceremony. George was pierced in the stomach, though. That part was bad presentation on the anime's part.

I'm generally pleased with this episode. I was only annoyed by one omission (Rosa's line about the bullets her daughter loaded for her), but I can't mark the episode down for that personal preference of mine. The scene in the chapel, though, was the first time I was genuinely put-off by Maria's expressions. Sure, creepy-evil-little-witch-girls should have expressions fitting for their status as creepy-evil-little-witch-girls, but they were out of place in that scene and far too exaggerated. Super Paper? People are complaining about that being left out? I don't even remember what that was.

[June 1983]

^Super paper is from the rock paper scissors game the witches play, it's just Lambda being a total dumb ass. It's funny but not that important.

Skipping the third twilight just isn't that big of a deal to me. It's not a specific event, but sort of a mood that is cast over the survivors, really.

[Antera Caramichael]

Well i think it is quite important actually, since it define her character, moreover, I don't remember that she said that she was the Strongest Witch in the Universe, which is quite important too.

[June 1983]

It doesn't define her character. It hints at one aspect of her character, and there are many opportunities to demonstrate that aspect of it.

[ghost_zero5]

Originally Posted by NeoWorm

By the way - do you also think that Battler dissapearing in swarm of butterflies looks completely out of place? In novel he always walked, or he just was here, its somehow part of his magic denying character - making him to use butterflies is butchering its character in my opinion.

Yeah, I also thought this was strange. I don't remember him to appear through butterflies and especially as you mentioned it would totally go against his character. I mean how can he deny magic if he is using it himself.
HOWEVER, he only has to deny magic inside the "gameboard" and there and because I am not completely sure anymore, I wouldn't deny the possibility that he did something like this once completely.
BUT it definitely didn't happen here, it was the opposite: Battler smashed Beatrice and she turned into gold butterflies and reformed again shortly after.
Actually, I had hoped to see THAT scene in the Anime. It would have been a way "cooler" entrance, not to mention that the dialogs were slightly different too. After all the whole Phoenix thing wasn't mentioned - of course, the whole explanation as to why Rosa suddenly acknowledged that Beatrice is a witch wasn't really shown or told either.

Btw. I thought the Anime was/is "monitored" by Ryukishi07 but if that is the case shouldn't this reforming from golden butterflies have a "deeper" meaning than just be some graphical animation goody - though I dout it?

[FlareKnight]

Well I'd say they definitely rushed some parts of this, but there was still some quality moments in this episode. I think the mood with the background music helped, but honestly I'm still laughing over Battler making that promise with Maria. He certainly knows how to bounce back from a low point.

I'm a bit more interested out of what the events of this episode do mean. If your looking at the witch conflict side it's a tough spot for Bernkastel. I mean it's enough to be against Beatrice but now she has to deal with a duo including Lambda. Of course her power still is a handy one. Still a surprising moment when she took off that goat head and then walked out of the place.

In terms of the situation at hand Genji is suspicious. Too often that guy was around on his own so he could always go and 'report' to Rosa after he had made preparations. Hard to say what a person is really thinking. If there is a non-magical answer to that situation then Genji really is a part of it. If he isn't it's not like he'd take offence to it .

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by NeoWorm

It is - Battler from anime looks like stupid crybaby, that would give him a least some of his badassness from novel.

By the way - do you also think that Battler dissapearing in swarm of butterflies looks completely out of place? In novel he always walked, or he just was here, its somehow part of his magic denying character - making him to use butterflies is butchering its character in my opinion.

I feel the same way about any character who isn't Beatrice or one of her furniture.
Meaning, I thought the same when Lambda appeared as well. Golden butterflies are Beato's motif, and I thought they were only her motif.
So yeah, I felt that was a little off when Battler appeared too.

[June 1983]

Battler has disappeared/appeared with butterflies in the game, though I don't think he did that in that scene. I'm not sure how else he would appear though -- maybe he should have just walked in through the door? My opinion in, the meta world is sort of Beato's realm -- therefore, the appearance or disappearance of people in her world is connected to her magic, even if it's not something she's actively doing. Hence, the butterflies.

[Saerianne]

I quite enjoyed this episode, good quotes from the game, rosa musou, graveofthedead and epic Beato.
I'd have to agree with the Battler disappearing in butterflies thing. It's a tad out of place, bit it's not actually bothering me too much, which is surprising.

[kiryogi]

Big question for me now that we're moving onto episode 3. Is it still going to be a 13 ep series or would it be 26? Be pretty silly to end ep3 with only 2 eps but it was said or assumed Umineko was only going to be 13.

[Ithekro]

Hasn't Meta-Battler been appearing and disappearing via golden butterflies the entire arc?

13 DVDs...two episodes each...26 episodes.

[MarthX]

I'm surprised we haven't gotten the episode titles for the four next episodes. The newest issue of NewType should have been out by now.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by June 1983

Battler has disappeared/appeared with butterflies in the game, though I don't think he did that in that scene. I'm not sure how else he would appear though -- maybe he should have just walked in through the door? My opinion in, the meta world is sort of Beato's realm -- therefore, the appearance or disappearance of people in her world is connected to her magic, even if it's not something she's actively doing. Hence, the butterflies.

I always thought of that scene as Battler kicking open the door and then doing the finger point. Would have had more impact.

I hope they do something like that at least once.

[Bureiku]

did anyone notice that the letter had the wrong magic circle

[Ithekro]

Was it wrong, or was the culprit sloppy. This entire murder by the numbers has been very sloppy in Episode II. Killed out of order, staked at a later time. Placed in different locations from where they were murdered. Possibly missing the third twilight? Very sloppy.

[IfritTower]

It was the Anime that was wrong, the VN had the same magic circle as the letter that made Natushi throw all the servants out of the study back in Episode 1.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Bureiku

did anyone notice that the letter had the wrong magic circle

Here is the circle from episode II-VI:



I think it was supposed to be this one from episode I-IV:



The first one is about breaking bonds and the second one is about seperation I think.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by June 1983

Battler has disappeared/appeared with butterflies in the game, though I don't think he did that in that scene. I'm not sure how else he would appear though -- maybe he should have just walked in through the door? My opinion in, the meta world is sort of Beato's realm -- therefore, the appearance or disappearance of people in her world is connected to her magic, even if it's not something she's actively doing. Hence, the butterflies.

Ahh my mistake then, I guess I just don't remember.

[The Visored]

Well the episode was very good, but Rosa Musou needed to be longer.
I give it a 9.

[Change of Pace]

Originally Posted by Marion

And now to await in excitement for the 3rd arc, my personal favorite. I'm sure some anime-only viewers in the future will agree with me as well <333

Same here. Hopefully the adaption won't be as lacking as it's been at other times.