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Old 2014-11-22, 15:06   Link #1081
Kunagisa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloPanda View Post
His despair at his own weakness was at a high point while his feelings for Ais was only mentioned as an afterthought. Yet he grew a huge amount while in the dungeon after going in blinded by his "strong feelings."
He thought about Ais even before he went in dungeon, and I wouldn't really call the next page an afterthought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
The furigana reads "omoi" which meaning feelings right.
Wouldn't that indicate what the kanji means since they can be interpreted differently?
Yes they can, but they can also have the same meaning or just simply provide an easier reading for not so commonly seen words. If they have different meaning, the author usually wants to express "two meanings" of the same word, such as 絆 rubied to なかま. If Omori deliberately wants this word to be ambiguous, he could very well just use 思い or other equivalent in place of the kanji to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloPanda View Post
from what I can tell it should mean heavy attachment or heavy feelings. If it does read as feelings of love then I guess that's that but I haven't seen a single translator interpret it that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakarotlssj View Post
懸想 or Kesou should mean "falling in love; attachment" which is the Kanji for Omoi, so I think the feeling here refers to love but translators have chosen to keep it ambiguous as sometimes authors like to trick with double meaning.
I think this is really because translators have an extra burden in that they cannot|do not want to be wrong. I talk to the translator that JN bases his translations on, and he agrees with me that it's romantically related (infatuation though, not love), but he will still try to keep it as ambiguous as possible in the translation.

思慕 is the word used by official Taiwan version without any ruby, which only appears in love songs/letters(/E-mails) nowadays.
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/cj/...0%9D%E6%85%95/
This is the current 2ch thread.
http://hello.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/magazin/1415980480/
Read post 196 and the few posts following (especially 198). Most interpret it as love.

I personally do not believe we will get an answer for this until Omori himself adds more plot related to this skill specifically. As previously mentioned, this is a recurring discussion everywhere, which while is interesting to me, also never really goes anywhere except agree to disagree.

I think when the English version comes out, the term will still be very ambiguous such as "feeling" or "yearning", which could really just be anything; or Yen On translator might surprise me with a more definitive translation, since s/he went with picking up girls for the title anyway. The one piece of new information that we MIGHT get is the ruby for Single Minded Pursuit. The Taiwan version totally ignored it despite not ignoring other rubies like Arcanum, which just makes me think the translator has no idea what リアリス・フレーゼ is supposed to be either.

Either way, every single description of the skill can be interpreted some other way (especially 憧憬 in the skill name itself, which Omori has used it for Bell's idolization of heroes), with the exception of 懸想, which is what I'm basing my interpretation on.

PS: Who the heck is Allegis or Eregis or Urekis or whatever? Original text is 戦士アレギス, anyone have any idea? Might be an Omori original but I'm curious (maybe an anagram even?).
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Old 2014-11-22, 16:16   Link #1082
Okashira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunagisa View Post
PS: Who the heck is Allegis or Eregis or Urekis or whatever? Original text is 戦士アレギス, anyone have any idea? Might be an Omori original but I'm curious (maybe an anagram even?).
Algis and Allegis are actually existing names, but neither seem too fantasy related after a short investigation.
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Old 2014-11-22, 16:43   Link #1083
bakato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunagisa View Post
PS: Who the heck is Allegis or Eregis or Urekis or whatever? Original text is 戦士アレギス, anyone have any idea? Might be an Omori original but I'm curious (maybe an anagram even?).
You mean Uranus?
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Old 2014-11-22, 22:18   Link #1084
ArtemisF
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Originally Posted by SoloPanda View Post
I've never denied that his feelings for Ais are the most likely possibility. However, what I'm pointing out is that people are acting like it is the only possibility. This is completely denying other ideas as obviously wrong when there is no relevant context within the story to completely exclude those ideas.

I've seen no facts that directly link the skill to a person. He got the skill after meeting Ais, in a situation where he was saved. To completely exclude the possibility that the situation crushed his pride and his dream to become a hero, awakening a drive to gain strength in him is just turning a blind eye to the facts imo.

One thing that backs this up is that one of his greatest moments of growth was when Bate was talking bad about him in the inn. He was hurt and enraged and agreed with everything that Bate said. His despair at his own weakness was at a high point while his feelings for Ais was only mentioned as an afterthought. Yet he grew a huge amount while in the dungeon after going in blinded by his "strong feelings."

What it comes down to is that making an absolute statement without supporting facts and disregarding other possibilities in no way strengthens an argument.
I always included supporting facts. It may not be 100% because of the nature of the language. But imo it's pretty close to that. But aren't you omitting facts? Your supporting evidence talks about bates rant in the inn about him being weak. But to me the most impactful part about bates rant was when he asks Aizu about who she would pick(for romantic partner) between bates and Bell and Aizu remains silent at that question. Taking the silence the wrong way(from orataria) bates says of course it will be him(Aizu actually says she wouldn't pick bates. But bates ignores this and says there is no way she would pick weak people) .He just insinuated that if bell remained weak he would never be able to stand by aizus side. And yet you are saying Aizu was just an after thought. I strongly disagree with that. He was enraged and blinded by his " strong feelings". You are just omitting a whole part of what happened though and saying it like Aizu was only a small part of it when that is not the case.
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Last edited by ArtemisF; 2014-11-22 at 22:44. Reason: Aizu actually says she would never would pick bates but bates ignores that and says she wouldn't pick weak people.
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Old 2014-11-22, 22:28   Link #1085
Miraluka
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And from Bell's pov it true was because he knew Bate/Bete was spot on his talk.

The problem was that he trash talked Bell, but still said the truth.
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Old 2014-11-22, 22:51   Link #1086
ArtemisF
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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
And from Bell's pov it true was because he knew Bate/Bete was spot on his talk.

The problem was that he trash talked Bell, but still said the truth.
Yeah in bells pov he gets so angry because he thinks what bates says is true. That he wouldn't be able to be by aizus side if he's weak. He basically resolves himself to catch up to Aizu to be able to stand by her side. ( he confesses this later on to Aizu without actually saying it is her he wants to catch up to).

Separately from what I Am saying above, we know that bates is off wrong from sword orataria. Aizu actually thinks bells of as a person who reminded her of her important people(parents). And he certainly not trash as bates calls him which he will later find out. Aizu as of yet has to show romantic interest towards anything... She just wants to become strong as quickly as possible( and meet a hero? Sword orataria vaguely mentions this, although she believes it is impossible).
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Old 2014-11-22, 23:08   Link #1087
Miraluka
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Bell is in the Family-zone™ for the time being.
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Old 2014-11-23, 01:46   Link #1088
ArtemisF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloPanda View Post
*Removed this part due to sleepy eye errors*

This is how single minded pursuit written in volume 1 of the novel I took this directly from the digital edition. Please point out the part where it talks about love in the novel text. Even at the end of volume 5 it uses the same wording.
"As I previously explained, the skill's related to affection and affections only. As long as the feeling holds, the greater the yearning the greater the effect. In addition, as the others said already, the description doesn't specify the target of affection. We (as in most of the readers) say target is Ais because Bell got the skill after being rescued by her, and his bursts in growth are most significant when he trains with her. "

"Either way, every single description of the skill can be interpreted some other way (especially 憧憬 in the skill name itself, which Omori has used it for Bell's idolization of heroes), with the exception of 懸想, which is what I'm basing my interpretation on."


This is from Kunagisa. In his previous post he also included a link to a dictionary for this word in case you missed it. Not that these are not entire posts from(as they are too big I didn't include everything) him but just relevant parts. They might feel out of context, so reading his posts will help.
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(All of these i read in Manga/webnovel/Lightnovel)
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Old 2014-11-23, 09:32   Link #1089
nacer666
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Maybe he will skip levels.
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Old 2014-11-23, 09:50   Link #1090
bearzerger
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@The One Above God
Could be, but I doubt it. As I understand the difference between levels is absolute. Even the worst level 3 is supposedly better than the strongest level 2 by quite a margin. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but the stat level at which one levels up is considered secondary to the actual level. The moment he levels up however Bell will probably be as strong as an upper level 3 who leveled up at a regular pace even if all of Bell's stats are only at I 0 because of the bonus the stats of his previous levels grant him.
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Old 2014-11-23, 10:10   Link #1091
ComaLoL
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Originally Posted by bearzerger View Post
@The One Above God
Could be, but I doubt it. As I understand the difference between levels is absolute. Even the worst level 3 is supposedly better than the strongest level 2 by quite a margin. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but the stat level at which one levels up is considered secondary to the actual level. The moment he levels up however Bell will probably be as strong as an upper level 3 who leveled up at a regular pace even if all of Bell's stats are only at I 0 because of the bonus the stats of his previous levels grant him.

what we know is that previous level stat are "added as bonus" to actual level stat... how that bonus work.. we don't know... it may be an "hidden bonus" in the form an addition to the actual stat (so a strenght of 300 with a previous level strenght of 600 would result in an actual strenght of 300 + y where y is the hidden bonus derived from the previous level stat of 600) ... or it may be a stat growth booster... based on the level the stat reached in the previous level your new level stat will grow faster (like a basic form of single mind pursuit... that would be exagerated by his own skill)... or it may act as a "cap level increase" as proposed by the one above god...

fact is we don't know how it works... only that leveling with higer stat will result in some kind of bonus... unfortunately we didn't have any newly leveled up characather to compare to the bell as he just leveled up... so it's hard to tell if the bonus is an actual "hidden stat" or a more complex kind of bonus :/
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Old 2014-11-23, 10:37   Link #1092
bearzerger
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Originally Posted by ComaLoL View Post
what we know is that previous level stat are "added as bonus" to actual level stat... how that bonus work.. we don't know... it may be an "hidden bonus" in the form an addition to the actual stat (so a strenght of 300 with a previous level strenght of 600 would result in an actual strenght of 300 + y where y is the hidden bonus derived from the previous level stat of 600) ... or it may be a stat growth booster... based on the level the stat reached in the previous level your new level stat will grow faster (like a basic form of single mind pursuit... that would be exagerated by his own skill)... or it may act as a "cap level increase" as proposed by the one above god...

fact is we don't know how it works... only that leveling with higer stat will result in some kind of bonus... unfortunately we didn't have any newly leveled up characather to compare to the bell as he just leveled up... so it's hard to tell if the bonus is an actual "hidden stat" or a more complex kind of bonus :/
The very fact that Bell has that single minded pursuit ability makes it unlikely that the hidden bonus is a stat growth booster. In that case it would be kind of redundant and instead of trying to get his stats over 9,000 the author should just have him level up.
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Old 2014-11-23, 12:52   Link #1093
GodTurtleOm
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I know we've been told that the difference in Levels is an absolute difference in Status, but we don't really have any detail to how that works, or whether that still completely applies to Bell since he has surpassed the normal limits with his SS and SSS rankings in individual statuses. I think we can be at least sure that it means he's stronger than most Level 2s as a Level 2, and will be stronger than most Level 3s as a Level 3. I'd like to know for sure if Bell at the end of Level 2 progression is stronger than a newly advanced Level 3, but who knows if we'll get that. Regardless, the difference in skill (and Luck) is probably the deciding factor at that point.

I think the absolute difference in power might apply to Magic as well, which is strange, because I don't think it's even necessary to advance that all the way to D in order to Level Up, unlike the other 4 base Stats.

Here's my various theories for the mechanism to represent stat upon leveling from 1 to 2. Keep in mind that the stats need to be in at least the 500 range to Level Up and that 999 was considered the maximum before Bell came along
1. All stats are doubled, to the minimum of 1000 (in the case of undeveloped Magic this is absolutely necessary)
2. Same as 1, but the higher the stat, the higher the multiplier, seems a bit redundant.
3. All stats get ~500 points added to them, again, special exception for Magic below D.

Where things really get confusing is how to treat points in stats gained after leveling, Are they twice as potent as the last Level? More? Less? Should each point Ottar gains as a Level 7 be equal to 64(2^6) points gained by a level 1, even before considering his accumulated, now hidden stats?
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Old 2014-11-23, 13:47   Link #1094
Pablete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaricia View Post
Spoiler for Vol 6 Illustration. Credits to SolTrans:
1. Ryu uses knives and a rod.
2. That's Hyacinthus.
3. No,, she isn't. More like a mix of samurai and ninja.
4. Cassandra and Daphne.
5. Hermes.


Spoiler for Classy, Stylish and sexy:
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Old 2014-11-23, 14:08   Link #1095
DragonKing0117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablete View Post
1. Ryu uses knives and a rod.
2. That's Hyacinthus.
3. No,, she isn't. More like a mix of samurai and ninja.
4. Cassandra and Daphne.
5. Hermes.


Spoiler for Classy, Stylish and sexy:
You messed up on linking the last image, and I think the whole Mikoto = Amazon thing is because she has the same skin color as the only two Amazon characters we really know.
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Old 2014-11-23, 14:30   Link #1096
Breimoon
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This story needs more Amazon characters.
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Old 2014-11-23, 14:34   Link #1097
Pablete
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Originally Posted by DragonKing0117 View Post
You messed up on linking the last image, and I think the whole Mikoto = Amazon thing is because she has the same skin color as the only two Amazon characters we really know.
Dark skin doesn't makes a race, you know? Kunagisa already told about her on previous posts btw.
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Old 2014-11-23, 14:50   Link #1098
GodTurtleOm
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Something that's been bothering me, the Amazons are still humans, right? They seem a bit tougher than normal humans, but nothing too different. (Urga's massive weight made it a weapon pretty much exclusive for Amazons, which seems odd to me, since I would think Status-derived Strength would be much greater the difference in strength between races.)

So Welf used the other half of the Minotaur horn to make a Minotan Mk 2? Anyways, he's already putting his newly acquired Blacksmithing ability to use, so I'm curious as to how it's different.
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Old 2014-11-23, 15:58   Link #1099
Ryogo
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Originally Posted by DragonKing0117 View Post
You messed up on linking the last image, and I think the whole Mikoto = Amazon thing is because she has the same skin color as the only two Amazon characters we really know.
Mikoto's skin color is white.

Spoiler for slightly nsfw:
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Old 2014-11-23, 18:34   Link #1100
DragonKing0117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryogo View Post
Mikoto's skin color is white.

Spoiler for slightly nsfw:
Why is her skin brown in the newest picture then? Is the illustrator screwing around with colors again like he did with Aiz's eyes on the cover? Or is this a different character?
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