2009-04-03, 06:44 | Link #1 |
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Politeness in the world
Well, here is my first thread in this section. I want to talk about politeness in the world because I have the belief that the more the time pass the less there is politeness.
Here an example : When i take the car to go somewhere, i always say hello to the driver. But many people don't do it and i find that disrespectful. The worst is when i say "Hello" to a bus driver and he don't answer me Generally after that i'm in bad mood and i start to mumble a "You, bastard" Another one : When i'm in course at my College, sometimes the teacher says "Stop talking please" but even with that there is always some people who talk and don't listen him. It really get on my nerve. I mean we're in College now, we're not children anymore and we're here to learn not to chat about the last week-end and all. In the end, i really have the belief that there is less and less people who are polite. So i was wondering if it was the same around you ? And if i'm the only one thinking like that.
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2009-04-03, 07:09 | Link #2 |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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I'm pretty sure you're not the only one thinking like that. I wouldn't be surprised if there are studies showing the same thing. At a guess, I'd say it has to do with increased anonymity that comes from increasing population and urbanization. And possibly the internet.
That said, I'm wondering where you're getting the idea that politeness is decreasing over time from. Your examples certainly show a snapshot of modern rudeness, but how do you know for sure that people used to be politer in the past? Is that just an assumption you made, or were people actually politer back when you were in high school, and even politer in middle school, etc etc? I doubt the shift would be noticeable over such a short time frame, and your data would be skewed by the ages of your peers (children are indeed children). There are quite a few things that get distorted by nostalgia, so you can't take stories of the "good old days" at face value. Not to mention the fact that awareness of problems can change over time without the issues themselves actually changing in any way. |
2009-04-03, 07:12 | Link #3 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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There are a few factors that need be considered.
1) Higher population usually means a lower level of politeness. A good example is the greeting. In rural regions it is often considered perfetctly normal that two persons that cross each other path should greet each other, even if they never met before (althought that usually doesn't happen). However that is very impractical in a big city. I mean you can cross the path of 100 different persons in a single minute, you cannot greet all of them. You mentioned the car driver, that's a little different, but in the case of a bus driver, it might be just a single trip in a day for you but for them you might be the 1000th passenger. This kind of environment tend to modify someone's perception of other. When you are used to ignore people you'll end up ignoring them even in other contests. 2) Cultural differences. I see you are french, i'm not surprised you care about politeness because your culture is one that enforces it. My sister has been living in Paris for six months, she once told me she's been criticized because after buying something from a shop she didn't say "merci". As a total opposite i've been in some east european countries and i noticed that people there do not mind too much about thanking each other. Now the western world is becoming multiethnic and cultural differences might shake the balance of perceived politeness.
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2009-04-03, 07:15 | Link #4 | ||||
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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But anyway, even if they have a job, some parents have difficulties to build a good link with their children here... at the end of the day, the children "could" be more influenced by their friends, rather than by their parents. And if their friends lacks good manners and curse people... About the school, they are less rigorous than in the past, for the best or the worst (the worst if you ask me)= Anyway, if you're polite and all, you don't have to change because the others are not Gentlemen and ladies still exist ya know, so you're not alone. Last edited by Narona; 2009-04-03 at 07:35. |
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2009-04-03, 07:15 | Link #5 |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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As for bus drivers, I only expect them to to their job. It's a shitty job anyway so I don't mind them being in bad mood.
And keeping your mouth shut in class has not so much to do with politeness but with respecting the rights of others. That's a different thing.
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2009-04-03, 08:03 | Link #6 | ||
Teddytears
Graphic Designer
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About the topic in general. IMO, I think you are asking a bit too much. Sure it would be nice for more polite people in the world, but I think you are only thinking of yourself in this.(not in a bad way, just not considering how the other person feels) Other people may be going through things. The bus driver is an example, what if the bus driver has a bad throat, and can't talk? Or what if he's in a bad mood, and refrained from talking at all as to not explode at anyone. Next time someone is being rude as you say, take a good look at their facial expression, and try to see their emotion. Clarste brings up a good point as well. Since none of us lived in the distant past, and have no firsthand information fo how polite people may or may not have been, there's no actual proof that anything may have chnaged over that timespan at all. For all you know, it may have even gotten better for all we know. There are also problems if a child was brought up rudely. Very rarely will a child change from things instilled in him/her at the age of 3-4. If soemone is treated badly, they are most likely going to reflect that back, and treat eveyrone else around them badly. It's sad, but true.
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2009-04-03, 08:05 | Link #7 | |
Please call me "senpai":)
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Else I prefer "Good afternoon", in German "Guten Tag" which equals "Good Day", but it is the most polite form in German.
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2009-04-03, 08:12 | Link #8 | |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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2009-04-03, 08:19 | Link #9 | |
Teddytears
Graphic Designer
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Although, that would mean politeness and etiquite have gotten better over time... (Odd situation, I just saw my friend, and I told him I was just talkign abotu politeness in the world with you guys, and he came up and said. "I was here for a while, and you didn't even say hi!")
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Last edited by Sinfully Naomi; 2009-04-03 at 08:32. |
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2009-04-03, 10:19 | Link #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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I try to say hello to as many people as possible who I pass in the street everyday
Regardless of whether I know them or not, it's polite & common courtesy Even more so in my line of work aswell, as I'm dealing with customers 8 hours a day 4 days a week |
2009-04-03, 10:34 | Link #11 |
Senior Member
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it all depends on what kind of politeness we talk about. i can divide it into formal (saying hello) and practical (Kusa-san's 2nd example).
formal politeness is just a tradition. noone really needs it and people do it because everyone does it (also because their parents told them to). "sorry" and "thank you" have become reflexes, most people dont stop to really think what those words mean (or should mean) practical politeness, on the other hand, is...well, practical. it has better (imho) reason to exist. if students are still talking when the proffesor comes in, it means the students are making him wait for no good reason, while the proffesor would have liked to start the lecture. EDIT i'm only polite with my friends. and with other people, only when something crucial depends on it. i wouldnt say that im being rude, though. i dont curse people)
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Last edited by idiffer; 2009-04-03 at 10:46. |
2009-04-03, 10:42 | Link #12 | |
ドジ
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a house
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I'm also wondering whether Kusa-san meant "collège" in the French context, i.e. "middle school". I'm sorry to say this, but middle school pupils are children and generally do act like children. They're also at the age where going against authority is seen as "cool". It's the same in every country. I find my own politeness level changing depending on where I am and who I'm interacting with. I say "hello" and "thank you" to bus drivers in England but not in Hong Kong. I hold doors open for the next person at my university and at the hospital, but not at the shopping centre (unless the next person happens to be elderly or disabled). My change in behaviour occurs subconsciously and I only realise it in retrospect. Generally speaking, however, I am polite to someone when I'm interacting directly with him/her, i.e. after I've made a conscious decision to open my mouth to communicate. |
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2009-04-03, 10:56 | Link #14 | |
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did you mean "smile in a way, in which people will think you are really happy, although you may be not "? or "smile if you are happy and dont smile if you are not" the first option, imho, is just lying to people. politeness a strange thing. it teaches you that lies can be good. Vs. the common "lying is bad"
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2009-04-03, 10:58 | Link #15 | |
ドジ
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a house
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2009-04-03, 11:01 | Link #16 | |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
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2009-04-03, 11:11 | Link #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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2009-04-03, 11:16 | Link #18 |
ドジ
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a house
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Yes... what starts out as "pretending" and "lying" can actually turn into something genuine. This is what I mean: by pretending to be happy and friendly (and succeeding at it), you could improve the mood of the person you're interacting with. In turn, that person will be genuinely nice to you, which might actually make you genuinely happy as well! I'm speaking from experience here.
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2009-04-03, 11:30 | Link #19 |
Senior Member
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iLney, you got me interested. i'll try searching for it on torrents.
but i mostly know that it makes others happy. the point is 1) you are still lying 2) most people dont do it to help others feel better, as i've stated earlier. rather to form a higher opinion of themselves in the eyes of the person they are talking to. Yukinokesshou, i also read a book which said that forcefully smiling will eventually make you feel happy even without other people around. i'm not a fan of this technique...
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2009-04-03, 11:45 | Link #20 |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Firstly, I would like to make a point that, courtesy impounded upon others is always an excuse for dominance and is often entirely whimsical. Never be polite to someone who asks you to be polite with him/her, you are degrading the value of respect that way (given the way how people often bootlick their way out and up, it is like respect has got any value left in society anymore).
I am never polite, but I know I am honest when I tell others to shove off. Courtesy is a form of respect, and when people don't speak to you nicely in that way, it is obviously that you don't deserve any because respect is to be earned, it is no way an entitlement. Besides, wouldn't it be better to show respect by actions rather than words? Isn't that what politeness is supposed to be in the first place? You can ask an old woman "How are you doing?" in a nice tone, but if you are not going to give up your seat to her, that is dumb. Just two cents, standing my ground, and not moving. Bring on the storm of criticism.
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