Kanon 2006 (Generic Discussion)

[houkoholic]

For the people whom don't understand the cast change I see a common point - you're judging it solely because of your experience from the Toei version.

The answer to all your worries about the VA change is quite simple - it's because the Toei version Yuuichi IS NOT what the game Yuuichi is like.

It's no secret that Kyoani is aiming for a faithful adaptation of the game, much much more faithful than the Toei version. And in the game, Yuuichi IS a smartass. The Kyon comparison is actually quite valid, Yuuichi is actually quite a bit of a jerk and is cold and sharp around the edges, even though deep inside he's got a soft spot for all the characters, not unlike Kyon. Yuuichi in the game is very sarcastic, it shows from the very beginning of the game when he delibrately teased Nayuki by calling her wrong names like Hanako (the Japanese equivalent to "Mary") and Taro (a boy's name!). In the Toei version they omitted this scene from the first episode, whereas Kyoani kept it. When I saw that scene at TBS Festival it clicked very very well and instantly it brought me back to the exact scene from the game as how I remembered it. Yuuichi is even sarcastic towards Akiko and his smartass comments towards Makoto is totally off the scale. Added in the fact that Yuuichi never liked the idea of returning to this town because of *you know what incident*, Yuuichi is not exaclty the most happy person you'll find. Thus it is actually the Toei version which failed, Toei Yuuichi is way too soft and generic of a harem lead. Whereas the true charm of the game Yuuichi is when he decides to open up his feelings and shows exactly how much he cared. In this regard Tomokazu Sugita is actually a very good, and arguable better choice for Yuuichi.

He downloaded the cd package from comiket which contains 4 tracks and one of them happens to be a short skit featuring the lead girls arguing what to have for lunch (according to Heisei Democracy)

That was not the content of the CD at all.......
The short drama was about Yuuichi got sick and lost his voice(!) and the girls trying to make him get better by (force) feeding him their favourite food.

[DanielSong39]

Any chance KyoAni pulls a shocker and goes with the AIR ending in this one?

It would make it one of the most haunting and depressing shows in years - not sure how the public would react to it, however...

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

It's no secret that Kyoani is aiming for a faithful adaptation of the game, much much more faithful than the Toei version. And in the game, Yuuichi IS a smartass. The Kyon comparison is actually quite valid, Yuuichi is actually quite a bit of a jerk and is cold and sharp around the edges, even though deep inside he's got a soft spot for all the characters, not unlike Kyon. Yuuichi in the game is very sarcastic, it shows from the very beginning of the game when he delibrately teased Nayuki by calling her wrong names like Hanako (the Japanese equivalent to "Mary") and Taro (a boy's name!). In the Toei version they omitted this scene from the first episode, whereas Kyoani kept it. When I saw that scene at TBS Festival it clicked very very well and instantly it brought me back to the exact scene from the game as how I remembered it. Yuuichi is even sarcastic towards Akiko and his smartass comments towards Makoto is totally off the scale. Added in the fact that Yuuichi never liked the idea of returning to this town because of *you know what incident*, Yuuichi is not exaclty the most happy person you'll find. Thus it is actually the Toei version which failed, Toei Yuuichi is way too soft and generic of a harem lead. Whereas the true charm of the game Yuuichi is when he decides to open up his feelings and shows exactly how much he cared. In this regard Tomokazu Sugita is actually a very good, and arguable better choice for Yuuichi.

Ding ding ding, bingo, someone got it right.

I can see how the Yuuchi=Kyon voice might bother some people, but their character isn't really all that different, so I see no problems here.
Still, it would've been fine if they kept Kisaichi-san for this anyway.

By the way, the "bad boy" main character is pretty much standard throughout most Key games, from Yuuichi to Yukito to Tomoya. It's a specialty of Maeda-san's.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

I can see how the Yuuchi=Kyon voice might bother some people, but their character isn't really all that different, so I see no problems here.
Still, it would've been fine if they kept Kisaichi-san for this anyway.

I actually re-watched the Toei Kanon and Kisaichi actually felt "wrong" after the Sugita Yuuichi. Yuuichi when not making sarcastic comments is usually very indifferent and shows very little interests to practically anything, and Sugita really nailed that part of Yuuichi down (probably thanks to all the Kyon training :P ). Kisaichi's normal voice is still a little too childish happy and warm at times, and it would feel awkward if he was to try being sarcastic in that voice tone of his.

By the way, the "bad boy" main character is pretty much standard throughout most Key games, from Yuuichi to Yukito to Tomoya. It's a specialty of Maeda-san's.

Preciously. Come to think of it, Ono Daisuke would make a pretty good Yuuichi too, but then people would complain about having Yukito-vibes. :P

[panzerfan]

well Yuiichi was certainly not blind and does know what he can tread and what he cannot. Matters regarding Akiko-san and Kurata he doesn't dare venture with that tongue of his too far for certain peril that might befall him, although his emotions do him harm regarding the matter of the student union. (Afterall Yuiichi knows best not to question about the jam for one).

Kyon has one advantage... he possesses an incredably levelled head, not so Yuiichi. Portraying this subtle difference would be interesting. Personally the two characters are incompatible. The observent and collected Kyon will be unamused by Yuiichi's mockery of wits whilest somewhat cynical and swift Yuiichi be frustrated by Kyon's few but acidic remakes pointed to insult the man's mental faculty and knowledge.
Although in truth, the Kyon in the novel is toned down in the anime and I think that will happen with Yuiichi as well.

The possible AIR ending would be for Ayu and Nayuki's climax to turn for the worst. That would... send shockwave across the entire Kanon fanbase. In AIR the Dream arc closes on a happy note though. Well the ride's already bittersweet. Kaori and Makoto's segments are already emotional highlights throuh Kanon and making it any worst would make me feel terrible for Yuiichi... no wonder why he didn't want to come back.

[DragoonKain3]

Thanks for the explanation houkoholic. If what you say is true, then it seems that Toei Yuuichi would be a very different character than KyoAni Yuuichi. If that is the case, then I have no problems now with the VA change.

+1 Rep

[MakubeX2]

Not in the mood of translating this interview when I have my little translation project going on.

[houkoholic]

I just want to take the liberty of translating the section in which the director Ishihara explains the choice of Sugita Tomokazu as Yuuichi.

Like Yukito from "AIR", (Yuuichi) is like a fatherly figure which overlooks and protects the girls and we wanted to find such a person who possesses this quality. Out of the candidates gathered for the audition, Sugita-san fitted perfectly, thus he was selected.

There you have it, straight from the director's mouth.

[Vexx]

Sarcastic and indifferent == fatherly figure?? ....... O.o

whatever.... (sounds like interviewing b.s. to me ) -- I'm sure Sugita can play the role ... much will just depend on the dialog they give him to act.

[npal]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Sarcastic and indifferent == fatherly figure?? ....... O.o

Agree

[Rengemaru]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

There you have it, straight from the director's mouth.

Director's aren't always right, although we're your explenation of the VA change was very convincing but I'd say that we should leave that matter aside and wait until the actual thing starts airring. You can't know if kyo's Yuuichi (or the game's Yuuichi) is better then Toei's Yuuichi. Let's just wait until the whole thing finishes and we'll rate.

Personally I re-watched Kanon again and I'm feeling uneasy about the VA change.

[orion]

Well, then Ayu and Nayuki working their magic on him will be all the more poignant. But that guy is too much associated with Kyon for me. Yukito's VA would have been much better imo.

I sort of understand the father figure stuff, but at some point he has to make the transition to boyfriend. They'll probably handle it right. I still have faith in KyoAni to give the more "true" version. I also hope that the VA's voice range can handle it.

Must erase all memory of Kyon before October.

[panzerfan]

Not totally related but I wonder who the artist is for this pic...


As for the VA issue I am ok with it now more or less.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

Not totally related but I wonder who the artist is for this pic...


As for the VA issue I am ok with it now more or less.

That pic style makes me think of that lovely AIR fan art with Misuzu and Yukito on a bench and she has two bento ... I'm guessing it might be that artist?
(of whom I also don't know the name of)

[DragoonKain3]

@houkoholic: Thanks for the translation!

Still though, it only explains why they chose Sugita, which I understood already, as even I'd take him rather than the vast majority of other male VAs as Yuuichi. It doesn't explain though why they didn't re-hire Kisaichi, which they did with every other character in the series, and so it feels inconsistent to me.

But extrapolating from the fact that they did hold an audition and no mention at all of Kisaichi, I guess they felt that Kisaichi doesn't fit their vision of Yuiichi anymore, just like you said before.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Sarcastic and indifferent == fatherly figure?? ....... O.o

whatever.... (sounds like interviewing b.s. to me ) -- I'm sure Sugita can play the role ... much will just depend on the dialog they give him to act.

Actually there is no conflict in his explaination at all and it's not BS, Ishihara really knows what he is talking about.
What Ishihara said referes to what Yuuichi will turn into later on in the series. Just like I said before the real charm of Yuuichi is when he decides to open up and show his true feelings that's hidden underneath his cold exterior. Again, look at other Key work like AIR's Yukito for reference, how he began treating Misuzu et all in the beginning and compared to how he treated them towards the end. Yuuichi is the same.

Originally Posted by Rengemaru

You can't know if kyo's Yuuichi (or the game's Yuuichi) is better then Toei's Yuuichi.

I can make such a claim because I saw the first episode of Kyoani Kanon at TBS Festival, watched Toei's Kanon in full AND played the game in full (in Japanese).

There was no voice for game Yuuichi thus it doesn't count. I re-watched Toei's Kanon and Toei Yuuichi definitely does not project the image of the game Yuuichi. Like I said, Toei Yuuichi's voice is too childish and happy, a little care-free even. The original sarcastic comments from the game doesn't come off as sarcastic at all from the mouth of Toei Yuuichi, but then again I believe that was not what Toei wanted their version of Yuuichi to be, they went conservative and created the more traditional harem male lead - a male character which is of the same mental age bracket as the female characters.

Kyoani's Yuuichi is more in line with game Yuuichi, though he's not perfect (yes, even I had trouble shaking off the Kyon image when I first heard Yuuichi), but IMNSHO Kyoani's Yuuichi is already much closer to the game Yuuichi in the first episode alone, and I can easily picture him dropping his sarcastic tone to deal out some serious dailogue (really looking forward to Yuuichi's message to Nayuki at the end now, which is my all time favourite scene in the game). The male protagonist in Key's work always appears much older, more cynical and more mature than their female counterparts dispite being more or less of the same biological age, and Kyoani's Yuuichi, both in drawing and in speech, captures this exact same feeling as the game. The more I look into it and going back and forth to compare all 3 versions, the more I think Kyoani's choice is an excellent choice.

Of course, these are my opinions from my personal experience of all 3 versions of Kanon (game, Toei, Kyoani), you can be your own judge when you've seen the series yourselves.

[Shirobane]

Originally Posted by orion

Well, then Ayu and Nayuki working their magic on him will be all the more poignant. But that guy is too much associated with Kyon for me. Yukito's VA would have been much better imo.

But then wouldn't you get Koizumi Itsuki vibes instead of Kyon vibes?

[Vexx]

Ah.. so the director meant Yuiichi will *become* more of a fatherly figure as he gets to know the girls, that clarifies... normally one doesn't equate "sarcastic and indifferent" individuals with the term "fatherly". So we'll get to see Yuuichi develop and grow.
Japanese is kind of a vague language at times when it comes to verb tenses and "things becoming" sort of stuff (or at least thats my understanding of it so far in my studies).

This will be really interesting for me then because the only Yuuichi I know is the TOEI version (never played the game). I might actually like this version better after all is said and produced.

I don't associate the VA Sugito with Kyon (SHnY) anymore than I associate him with Rin from Shuffle! ... they are simply two roles he played (and they were different personalities). I think Sugito shows he can tune his delivery to fit the director's desired personality for the character.

[Skane]

I do have problems disassociating Sugita with Kyon, but I think that is mainly because SHaruhi only JUST ended, and Kyon is still very much fresh on everyone's mind.

I have been avoiding videos containing Kyon ever since the prelude came out so that I can associate Sugita with Yuuichi instead when Kanon(2006) starts. Oh, and replaying the prelude over and over again helps, along with chanting, this is Yuuichi, this is Yuuichi, this is Yuui-...

[panzerfan]

this is Kyuuichi.

Anyway, the newest Megami magazine seems to have extra info on Kanon and a slew of other topics (such as StrikerS for Nanoha). I am interested to find out what's in there or somehow get myself a copy.