2010-03-22, 15:41 | Link #1841 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Who says she was actually the last to die? |
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2010-03-22, 16:39 | Link #1842 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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True, but the point is that would take a while. Killing with a drug overdose takes a fair amount of time, as I said. Battler going to the chapel and back probably takes about 10 to 15 minutes in total. Smothering, on the other hand, is a far quicker process. Maria wouldn't struggle since at that point she wants Beatrice to kill her and the body would look far more peaceful than it would from poison or overdosing. Since the mansion has beds then obviously there are pillows, so Knox #8 isn't violated. Poison, on the other hand, is a bit trickier with Knox and drug overdose isn't optimal time wise.
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2010-03-22, 17:58 | Link #1843 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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So basically Rokkenjima syndrome is denied. A drug that causes you to murder people is denied. Time machines are denied. Teleportation devices are denied. Hard to understand drugs and diseases that cause dead people to become the undead are denied. Poison as the cause of death is not denied as long as the poison is not unknown to most people. Can we really rule out that they wouldn't have rat poison in a western mansion?
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Last edited by Judoh; 2010-03-22 at 18:25. |
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2010-03-22, 18:40 | Link #1844 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Knox #4 isn't an issue - #8 is because there isn't hints that Rokkenjima is rat infested. If it is, then its maybe only in the forest.
Poison is not as pleasant a death as it seems. Rat poison especially, since its intended use is for rats and not people and can cause vomiting. Especially with the dose needed for it to effectively work on humans. Not the most pleasant death and I don't think there would be enough time to clean up vomit before Battler comes back. I just don't see why poison or drug overdose needs to be the cause, when smothering is just as effective and less time consuming. |
2010-03-22, 19:43 | Link #1846 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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There was froth on her lips, right? I don't believe smothering would produce that kind of effect.
This is what I was getting at earlier. Someone else was trying to make it look as though she had killed herself. She might not even have been killed in the dining room at all. |
2010-03-22, 21:43 | Link #1847 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Well, like I said before, Maria wouldn't try to struggle. She wants to die after all because she thinks she'll go to the Golden Land and be happy. And its not like the clothes can't be brushed up a little so the wrinkles aren't very visible.
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2010-03-22, 22:19 | Link #1849 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Well she does say that it doesn't even matter which one of them wins now, because they'll go to the Golden Land. Either way she either commits suicide by taking some unknown drug/poison or some other way. I'm just giving an alternative that may prove quicker than drug overdose.
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2010-03-22, 23:30 | Link #1850 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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What about a candy having multiple types of sedatives inside?
It should cause Maria's death in the calmest way and she will be willing to take the candy if you tell her it is the way to enter the Golden Land. She had the ability to lie beside Rosa and had that pose in this case, while the candy "capsule" had to be dissolved first.
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2010-03-23, 00:18 | Link #1851 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-03-23, 02:28 | Link #1852 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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A mix of sedatives or depressants could easily kill an adult as they each compound the effect of the other drugs, let alone a kid.
Well, I am no expert on toxicology or medicine. So I guess the foaming in the mouth was a result from regurgitation during unconsciousness A mix of benzodiazepines (strong depressant, acting like alcohol, causing unconciousness), analgesics (stop pain) and muscle relaxants (block neurotransmittion to muscle) should kill a person easily and painlessly, and or at least since Maria would not breathe or have any movement, Battler could think she was dead even though at that particular moment her brain may not be totally. But still she would die from asphyxia soon.
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Last edited by ijriims; 2010-03-23 at 03:03. |
2010-03-23, 04:11 | Link #1853 | |
Uu~ Let's solve a riddle
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Germany
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There was this scene in EP3 were the adults asked Rosa if she has something to "shut Maria up" annoying anyone with her rose. I don't remember well (haven't read it for a long time) but I think she said she didn't have it with her but I seemed to me she had some kind of sedative for such situations. The thought at first creepy me out reacting to this question so casually but on the other side considering her AWESOME parenting skills and Maria could have caused many problems for her before when in this childish/angry mode not all that absurd. Perhaps she lied about not having it on her. But if this really was something made for children and even if its only normal sleeping pills or another common medicine I seems highly unlikely to cause death without much preparation (aka complex explanations ^^) as this stuff is MADE to be safe if not taken in totally huge doses. The only other thing I can think of being so dangerous are Kinzos vast amounts of strong alcohol On the other side I'm still not convinced that Knox is meant to be applied in this way (the "arrogant" way as Battler put it in EP5). |
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2010-03-23, 04:48 | Link #1854 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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I suppose that scene was to show that somebody took all the pills without her knowing it.
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Last edited by ijriims; 2010-03-23 at 23:40. |
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2010-03-23, 19:53 | Link #1855 |
Purupurupiko-Man
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: My beloved hometown, the mackerel river running through it
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Maria left the guesthouse at 11:47, and Battler met "Beatrice" at midnight. Their conversation might have lasted around five to fifteen minutes. There was enough time for any poison to take effect.
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2010-03-24, 08:53 | Link #1856 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Yeah, the death order in Episode 4 is the most confusing part of it. Because Battler doesn't see any of the deaths until the second day (excluding George) we don't know when on the first day they died. As well, there's that scene where Beato is talking and celebrating with Goldsmith. I think it's either the culprit talking to themself, or a conversation between culprits, so if it's taking place at the time it's shown, then at least two people are still alive at that time. One of them leaves to oversee Maria's test, and the other meets with Battler. Their conversation leaves her in a really foul mood, and she kills the other culprit, if there was one.
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2010-03-24, 13:53 | Link #1857 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2010-03-24, 14:40 | Link #1858 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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They may have wanted to just delay Battler. Having him be aware that Maria was going to the chapel (and maybe she never did; can we be sure she even had a "test" at all?) would ensure that, once he couldn't get inside the mansion, he'd go out that way to look for Maria or whoever was with her. It strongly speaks toward Maria's involvement, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
We have no proof Maria wasn't told just to tell Battler where she was going, then went straight to the mansion. Or that, if she was told to go to the chapel, she actually obeyed. |
2010-03-24, 15:02 | Link #1859 | |
Purupurupiko-Man
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: My beloved hometown, the mackerel river running through it
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2010-03-24, 15:20 | Link #1860 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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There are easier ways to delay Battler than to leave a master key at the chapel. If that was all Beato wanted to do, she could have just sent him on a wild goose chase down to the dock or something. After looking around for a while, he'd certainly just come back to the mansion and try to break in through a window anyway. If the culprit really wanted him to have a key so he could get into the locked rooms in the mansion, they could just leave it somewhere obvious, like in front of the dining room. So the fact that someone went out of their way to leave a key at the chapel suggests that there was somebody over there for a reason other than delaying Battler.
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