Darker Than Black - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Bonta Kun]

Hmmm not sure what to make of it all, good and bad maybe.
meh doesn't really matter to me, I enjoyed it anyway.
I guess it does a good job wrapping up in its own way but maybe leaving just a few things too many unanswered.

one thing tho, I guess I never payed much attention to it but Hazuki's power is to turn things into lightsabers?!

and Mao again is great, he seems to get along with anyone and everyone

oh and also Misaki was looking great at the end

[orion]

Originally Posted by physics223

Hopefully.

People are taking the myth too literally, in my humble opinion. It doesn't make sense that Hei wishes for his powers in order to lose Yin, because he had been doing well without his powers even beforehand. I don't think Hei is at that low a level to wish for his powers if it meant to sacrifice Yin, especially with what Golgo 13 shared to him before he went there. The fact is that she loved him so much that she tried to stifle her evolution or awakening, and he, being closest to her, obviously realized it. It just doesn't make sense for him to kill her, especially when in the gate he saw there were two separate existences.

I think it makes more sense that he loses Suou (because she has become important to him) with the gain of Yin. He lied to Suou the same way he lied to Yin in the OVA, and he does that to only the people he values. Of course, everything is open to interpretation.

I think that Misaki got a lot more attractive with the last episode, though. She just looked fresher; perhaps the creators are tacitly joining in the fun with the Misaki-Hei dynamic, where she looks happier when she sees him.

No some of us aren't. It's just that those who wish not to contemplate Yin dying is ignoring the myth. Hei wished for his powers. The Gate doesn't care about reasons. His reason is to kill Yin at her request to prevent Armageddon. With that wish came the loss of Yin. The Gate will not allow you to gain extra credit so to speak. Even if he doesn't kill her, the birth of Kagutsuchi would kill her. He's seen carrying a limp body at the end of the episode.

This is prob like the movie I saw this weekend. It was too little too late to prevent what was to happen.

Suou is living in his neighborhood from season 1 and is using a telescope. Not too mention her open ended narrative about missing people and prob meeting them again. He prob hasn't lost her as her loss was Shion.

But again, these things are open to interpretation.

[fertygo]

Some interesting topic floating on here about Kagutshuci, My question is :

In what such of method the Kagutsuchi born ?
Its there simply because the Izanagi and Izanagi meets, or is there more "logical" cause like the "Boy Yin" is copy of Yin created by Shion with his power and after that the entity whose can be called "Kagutsuchi" born. If its true why Shion want to do that ? perhaps he still want to destroy the "real" world in order completed the grand plan of his.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by orion

No some of us aren't. It's just that those who wish not to contemplate Yin dying is ignoring the myth. Hei wished for his powers. The Gate doesn't care about reasons. His reason is to kill Yin at her request to prevent Armageddon. With that wish came the loss of Yin. The Gate will not allow you to gain extra credit so to speak. Even if he doesn't kill her, the birth of Kagutsuchi would kill her. He's seen carrying a limp body at the end of the episode.

Except Yin is not Izanami, Dark Yin is. They're connected, but it does make a difference because Izanami is 'just' an evolution of Yin's water spectre power gone haywire.

And Yin's body has always been limp, since it's empty inside. It doesn't necessarily mean Yin is 'dead' entirely. Her soul might be inside Kagutsuchi, or still at the Gate, or back inside her body, we don't know. Even if she turns out to be alive in S3, it's very likely she's still in coma anyway.

If killing Yin's physical body was sufficient to kill Izanami, Section 3 would've done so long ago. And whatever Hei did to Yin, kill or whatever, he did it to her physical body, not the spectre or ghost white Yin.

I'm not denouncing your interpretation that Hei got himself a triple BAD ENDING, I'm just saying there's room to interpret it as Hei didn't kill Yin.

Originally Posted by orion

Suou is living in his neighborhood from season 1 and is using a telescope. Not too mention her open ended narrative about missing people and prob meeting them again. He prob hasn't lost her as her loss was Shion.

But again, these things are open to interpretation.

Except that Suou is 300,000 miles up in space and going further. And the space of DtBverse has been impregnable ever since the Gate Incident.

So unless Gates manifest in Earth 2.0 as well or Suou gets some sort of hax power to teleport her back to Earth 1.0, she's kind of out of reach from Hei. Unless she'll make do with a copy of 'Li Sheng Shun' somewhere in Earth 2.0

[velvet nightmare]

lol i like how everyone was going WTF???? in the earlier pages

like everyone else, i thought that was one confusing ass ending.

so if he killed yin, then what the hell was that kid inside the crate?

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Jin Kizuite

If theres about 6 pages with people going: "I don't understand what's going on."
Somethings gone wrong. Discussion.

Wow, like I said, you probably were not around for stuff like Paranoia Agent, or more recently CLANNAD ~ After Story's ending. This is understandable compared to those, which literally required cross-referencing by the people who did know and bashing in the heads of people who refused to understand despite having the clues right in front of them.

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

so if he killed yin, then what the hell was that kid inside the crate?

Kagutsuchi, last child of Izanagi and Izanami. I've said this a few times already. Doesn't anyone read previous posts? We're obviously missing Mizuhame of course, but the parallels are close enough.

Originally Posted by Zwei

And if you read further ahead in this thread, a lot of people explained what happened in this episode multiple times.

Yet no one listens. Which is a shame, since it's clear as day.

[Zwei]

The first few pages of people complaining about the ending are understandable. The RAW version wasn't even out on the Internet yet, and most of us watched it live. It's not hard to deduce what happened after watching it RAW, or better yet, subbed.

And if you read further ahead in this thread, a lot of people explained what happened in this episode multiple times.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Except Yin is not Izanami, Dark Yin is. They're connected, but it does make a difference because Izanami is 'just' an evolution of Yin's water spectre power gone haywire.

And Yin's body has always been limp, since it's empty inside. It doesn't necessarily mean Yin is 'dead' entirely. Her soul might be inside Kagutsuchi, or still at the Gate, or back inside her body, we don't know. Even if she turns out to be alive in S3, it's very likely she's still in coma anyway.

If killing Yin's physical body was sufficient to kill Izanami, Section 3 would've done so long ago. And whatever Hei did to Yin, kill or whatever, he did it to her physical body, not the spectre or ghost white Yin.

I'm not denouncing your interpretation that Hei got himself a triple BAD ENDING, I'm just saying there's room to interpret it as Hei didn't kill Yin.

No problem except that the explanation is that Dark Yin (Izanami) is the real Yin. Her soul left her body and went to the center of the Gate. Golgo explained it all. Therefore when Izanami dies, Yin dies and vice versa.

Section 3 (Golgo) also explained their actions. They sealed her instead of killing her because she voluntarily stopped her transformation. Then that shot from Suou's AT rifle that missed awakened her and then she didn't go back to sleep.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Except that Suou is 300,000 miles up in space and going further. And the space of DtBverse has been impregnable ever since the Gate Incident.

So unless Gates manifest in Earth 2.0 as well or Suou gets some sort of hax power to teleport her back to Earth 1.0, she's kind of out of reach from Hei. Unless she'll make do with a copy of 'Li Sheng Shun' somewhere in Earth 2.0

Well there is another Gate. Besides the things in Suou's universe and her living down the street from his original apartment is too much of a coincidence to ignore. Hei has Pai's powers again. You might as well say he's haxed.

And since Suou and the others were transported from old to new Earth, it's not impregnable anymore.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Yet no one listens. Which is a shame, since it's clear as day.

It's expected when one gets an ending that's not expected or desired imo.

Originally Posted by fertygo

Some interesting topic floating on here about Kagutshuci, My question is :

In what such of method the Kagutsuchi born ?
Its there simply because the Izanagi and Izanagi meets, or is there more "logical" cause like the "Boy Yin" is copy of Yin created by Shion with his power and after that the entity whose can be called "Kagutsuchi" born. If its true why Shion want to do that ? perhaps he still want to destroy the "real" world in order completed the grand plan of his.

By fire probably. Izanami gets badly burned.

Kagutsuchi is the entity that was foretold from the Mitaka documents and not a copy of Yin. Shion made a deal with Izanami to get Suou on the new Earth. He did not do any copying as Izanagi impregnates Izanami to give birth to Katgutsuchi. There was no way to stop what was going to happen to old Earth since Yin did not die before awakening.

Shion created a new Earth to preserve mankind since it's going to end soon on old Earth.

No wonder Shion looked so tired at the end.

[Myssa Rei]

It's not a total parallel though, so it's best to remember that. I think it's one of those cases where it's a guideline instead of an ironclad rule.

[physics223]

Originally Posted by orion

No problem except that the explanation is that Dark Yin (Izanami) is the real Yin. Her soul left her body and went to the center of the Gate. Golgo explained it all. Therefore when Izanami dies, Yin dies and vice versa.

Hei was just as surprised when he saw the white Yin manifest itself. No one else saw the white Yin EXCEPT Hei, as Misaki couldn't really see all that clearly. Doesn't that imply something? I'm not saying that Yin isn't dead, as she may very well be, I'm saying that it's highly possible she isn't dead. Her body has perennially been limp ever since she became a doll; it does not discount that she may be dead, but it's an alternative interpretation that is not a far cry by any means. Dark Yin didn't say to Hei to kill her, did (s)he? It was the White Yin.

I'm not going against the fruition of myth, but to me it's an interpretation that makes more sense. The idea of Chekhov's gun doesn't really make sense if we solely interpreted the final episode on the basis of myth.

(On that note, interpreting White Yin's ryougi as Hei and Black Yin (Yang)'s ryougi as Shion makes quite a lot of sense. It's very apt that White Yin's ryougi is Hei, or the color black.)

[orion]

Originally Posted by physics223

Hei was just as surprised when he saw the white Yin manifest itself. No one else saw the white Yin EXCEPT Hei, as Misaki couldn't really see all that clearly. Doesn't that imply something? I'm not saying that Yin isn't dead, as she may very well be, I'm saying that it's highly possible she isn't dead. Her body has perennially been limp ever since she became a doll; it does not discount that she may be dead, but it's an alternative interpretation that is not a far cry by any means. Dark Yin didn't say to Hei to kill her, did (s)he? It was the White Yin.

I'm not going against the fruition of myth, but to me it's an interpretation that makes more sense. The idea of Chekhov's gun doesn't really make sense if we solely interpreted the final episode on the basis of myth.

(On that note, interpreting White Yin's ryougi as Hei and Black Yin (Yang)'s ryougi as Shion makes quite a lot of sense. It's very apt that White Yin's ryougi is Hei, or the color black.)

No she wasn't limp. In the OVA trailer, she's walking and on the beach.

Dark Yin said it. Hei wasn't suprised at all to see White Yin. You need to rewatch the episode.

(19:00-19:15)
White Yin: Hei
Hei: Yin
Dark Yin: It's not too late.
Dark Yin: Kill me.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

It's not a total parallel though, so it's best to remember that. I think it's one of those cases where it's a guideline instead of an ironclad rule.

If you can't make a joke about how tired Shion was after having sex with Yin, then it's no fun. *ignoring the age difference or Shion's age*

Makes you wonder if any hentai is going to latch onto this.

[physics223]

Originally Posted by orion

No she wasn't limp. In the OVA trailer, she's walking and on the beach.

Dark Yin said it. Hei wasn't suprised at all to see White Yin. You need to rewatch the episode.

(19:00-19:15)
White Yin: Hei
Hei: Yin
Dark Yin: It's not too late.
Dark Yin: Kill me.

No. You watch it again. The collar shown was white. It was White Yin who said it. Watch it again.

She can be asleep you know, that's why she's limp. I'll admit of him not being surprised, though. I stand corrected with that.



Contrast that with Black Yin's collar. It's not Black Yin.

[SuperKnuckles]

Boo. The emotions were there, but the logic and reasoning weren't. That seems to be my impression of this mini-season of Darker than Black.

It'd be interesting if they put in some kind of a sequel to this if it's even possible, but damn... The sci-fi stuff is just off the walls and not in a good way..

[Azuma Denton]

My HEART screams for season 3 !!!!
WTH with that half-assed ending??
They dont even explained everything clearly...


Is this BONES strategy of making 3rd season of DtB??


EDIT: And my biggest dissapointment is they dont even show the battle between Genma and Hazuki... Cih...

[Marivelle]

Originally Posted by physics223

No. You watch it again. The collar shown was white. It was White Yin who said it. Watch it again.

She can be asleep you know, that's why she's limp. I'll admit of him not being surprised, though. I stand corrected with that.



Contrast that with Black Yin's collar. It's not Black Yin.

I rewatched this a few times, and it actually appears that Black Yin says "It's not too late." And THEN White Yin follows in with a close-up and says "Kill me." So yeah.

Btw, did anyone else like that ominous, yet intriguing synth background song when Izanami and Izanagi officially meet? It starts playing right when Suou finds July after he speaks with the magician inside the gate.

[Jaden]

It looks like there will be more, this ending has a lot less closure than the first season ending.

It doesn't confuse me anymore though!

The woman with the lazergun and twin dolls lives to see the end of their plan, and a new world is created with copying powers and ME. But the old world isn't destroyed, at least not yet.

Are Hei and Yin alive and well? - up to interpretation, to be revealed later, most likely yes :P
The new kid in the coffin is the prophetized "destroyer"

Likely s3 plot: The "art of war" fella and the americans seek to control the destroyer to gain power for their world goverment, and the new "syndicate" (Misaka and co.) go against them.

[Kaoru Chujo]

There was a simple question asked a few pages back that I don't think anyone ever answered: Ryuusei no Gemini means "Meteor Twins."

It's pretty frustrating reading page after page of people (a) condemning the show for being obscure and (b) refusing to listen to anyone who explains what's going on. Posters like Myssa Rei, orion, stuopidget, physics223 and others were like oases in a desert. But that's partly because I loved the show, unlike so many people here, apparently. One of my top five of the year.

I love the idea that the Yin-like vampiric boy rising from the coffin is like -- but not exactly like -- Kagutsuchi, the child of Izanami and Izanagi, a fiery god who killed his mother at his birth.

It seems most likely to me that Hei killed Yin and was carrying her body. His smile when she said he could still kill her was like: "Okay, that sounds good, my love. I'm glad that's what you want, too." She had left her body behind already. And Kagutsuchi will bring death and destruction all around him. Yin didn't want to be a part of that. That Hei and Suou released Izanami from Yin back at the Hokkaido dock was beautiful tragic irony.

To say Suou is somehow fake or unimportant seems to me to ignore how much her experience is like our own: we arise from we know not where, live for a while, and then lose our memories and die, to end up we know not where.

I don't think Hei was lying to her. I expect him to show up in the new world. And maybe in the old world, too, lol. The late image of Hei carrying limp Yin in the stars was like a hint they will both show up on the new Earth. I hope.

But perhaps not everything in this is explainable. Just like life.

Great seiyuu performances by Kuwashima Houko (Shion) and by Saiga Mitsuki (Hazuki). And of course by Hanazawa Kana: I think she, Saitou Chiwa (Senjougahara), and Koshimizu Ami (Horo) gave the best lead female performances of the year.

Shion never quite got to say what Suou was to him. Not a friend. But from his last words, probably just his big sister (the older twin). East Asian family worship in full force, lol: he has no emotions, but he is still devoted to his family.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Shion never quite got to say what Suou was to him. Not a friend. But from his last words, probably just his big sister (the older twin). East Asian family worship in full force, lol: he has no emotions, but he is still devoted to his family.

I'm sure Shion loved his sister very much. We've already been shown tons of time that contractors have emotions, I don't see it being any different with him. It was the same for Bai and Hei. But I guess it's a little hard to believe since Shion was portrayed as somewhat evil throughout the season, like when he used Suou as a decoy for his escape, or wondered what color her pain is.

Now that I've watched the subs, I realized this ep isn't as confusing as I thought when I watched it live. Madam explained everything pretty well. Yin's fate is still unclear though. Personally, I think she's alive, for reasons already given by Nightengale. I hope the OVA will shed some light on all that Izanami business, and maybe help us understand better what happened to her at the end.

[straferd]

From physics223 blog

the return of female Yin to her own body and to Hei is paid off by the loss of her Izanami personality to another body, the male doll eerily similar to Yin and armed with her contractor-killing powers

I don't know if it's because I really want Yin live and well, but that sounded really clever, good one.