2016-02-26, 14:31 | Link #35541 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Basically in 1986 Sayo was under a lot of stress as Jessica was in love with Kanon and George was pressuring Shannon into engaging with him. She felt she had to choose George but spent her nights fearing once he were to know the truth he would reject her and believing herself to be inadeguate. All this complicated by the fact that, despite everything, she loved Battler more than George but had no idea if he remembered about her. If Battler had turned one year sooner, Jessica wouldn't have had expressed her love for Kanon yet and George wouldn't have gotten that far with Shannon. In short Sayo wouldn't have spent lot of sleepless nights tormenting herself over what to do. She would have probably been still anxious at the idea that Battler could be back but she would probably be in a lot of less stress and would have handled things better. If Battler had turned one year later, by that time she should have already been engaged with George or have rejected him or have killed herself in fear he wouldn't accept her. Again she would have been not as stressed as she was. Battler coming back in 1986 is also a bad time due tot the situation the adults are in. In 1986 the adults were in serious financial problems and Krauss' plan to hid Kinzo's death wasn't believable any longer. Sayo's game was all they needed to start shooting at each other. If Battler had returned sooner the adults wouldn't have been so desperate and one against the other so no shooting would have ensued, if Battler had returned later... well, either they had already killed each other off over the gold or whatever else or had found an agreement and weren't planning to murder each other anytime soon. 1980 |
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2016-02-26, 14:47 | Link #35542 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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Umineko is solvable without magic, right? Then, why does exist a "meta world"? Why can I (and all other characters in the series) "see" "Shannon" although she should be Sayo / Claire / Beatrice whatever? Ah damn. Thank you for the explanation! Last edited by Sethalak; 2016-02-26 at 15:10. |
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2016-02-26, 15:44 | Link #35543 | ||||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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The murder game exists as a game between Sayo and (an unwilling) Battler. If Battler doesn't come back she believes she wouldn't have thought about making it.In 1986 with her game Sayo encouraged the adults, who were under stress and in really bad terms among them to solve the epitaph. As they do, see the gold and the guns they start to argue and tragedy ensues. Sayo thinks that if she hadn't encouraged the adults to solve the epitaph they wouldn't have tried doing it, therefore wouldn't have solved it, wouldn't have argued in the room of the gold and wouldn't have ended up shooting at each other. Truth to be told the adults could have tried solving the epitaph anyway and things could have gone just in the same way but she's not considering this option. Quote:
She thinks that, due to it, no one would accept her but they would be all disgusted. Quote:
However on work Sayo isn't free to express herself but has to act in a certain way. That's why Shannon is considered a 'persona' and not the true Sayo (though a good part of Shannon reflects the true Sayo). Keep in mind she's basically living in her workplace so she's playing a role for most of her day. Kanon is a disguise Sayo started to wear when she though her life could be happier if she were a boy. He's born more as a way to express certain emotions that wouldn't be proper for Shannon to express (girls can't act in ways in whcih boys are allowed to act). In a way he's also a persona as she also had to make sure that in some things he would be different from Shannon so they wouldn't recognize her. Beatrice is also a disguise Sayo uses to play pranks. Under Beatrice's identity she can prank others (like she did when she caused the key to disappear) without consequences, a thing Sayo isn't allowed to do. Beatrice acts in a way Sayo thinks should be fitting for a witch sos he's also a persona. In short, there's just Sayo playing 3 roles. Quote:
It's tied with some Japanese beliefs I'm not the best expert to explain. In the west we've different beliefs concerning souls and the otherwords, if objects can aquire a soul or not and if souls of the living can wander around so for us it's a bit more complicate to grasp the meta. Going back to why we can see... let's say Shannon and Beatrice at the same time during one of the games... well that's because the narrator is lying. However as we're shown what the narrator is saying and not what it's truly happening we can see them at the same time. |
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2016-02-26, 16:13 | Link #35544 |
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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WoW, WoW, WoW ... This "truth" can you only reason if you know the detail from the damaged body but I don't remember such a detail in the episodes. Whatever! >.<
Thank you so much What's with Claire and her connection to Sayo? The Tips mode says, that Claire is a soulless? vessel, created by Bernkastel?! Since EP7 Tea party I've thought that the narrator could be a liar. |
2016-02-26, 18:30 | Link #35545 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Ep 8 manga version can help you to connect the dots. That or re-reading the whole VN (or the manga). Quote:
Ironically the Ep 7 Tea Party is the truth. |
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2016-02-29, 19:14 | Link #35546 |
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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I don't get one thing from the riddle of EP8:
Battler and Beatrice reason that the culprit of the first twillight could have killed the five others and then played dead. After that, he/she committed the 2. Twillight und was trapped in Natsuhis Room. Battler and Beatrice said, that one of their children (Battler, George or Maria) must be one of the accomplices. And I don't get that thing. It is also possible, that there were two culprits of the first twillight: the first one commited four murders and then both played dead. After that, the same person killed Natsuhi and Krauss. Afterwards, the accomplice (from the first twillight) could commit twillight 4 and so on. I don't get why it must be one of the children??! |
2016-03-01, 11:16 | Link #35547 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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The children testified in purple that their parents were dead (therefore they weren't pretending to be dead). If one of the parents was pretending to be dead, the child lied and so he's an accomplice that either killed or will kill someone as well. |
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2016-03-06, 23:47 | Link #35548 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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2016-03-07, 15:04 | Link #35550 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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He was the unwilling cause of her desperation and what lead her to develop her plan who ended up in such way in Prime and, ultimately, he couldn't keep her alive. When they ended in the Purgatory he was amnesiac so she started her own game, which was painful for the both of them, a torture. Now, Battler didn't mean to do ill, but in Umineko (and in many other Japanese tales) you're accounted as responsible for the consequences of your actions/inactions regardless of your intentions. Also note that Sayo isn't really a culprit. In Prime she killed no one, actually in Prime she saved his life (and tried to save the lives of the others). She just planned to then, when they got into the Purgatory, showed Battler those plans as if they were the truth of Prime. Ultimately though she's showing him only tales. Apart for Ep 7 Teaparty, none of them is the truth. That's fine if you don't sympathize with Sayo. Battler instead decided to do it. |
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2016-03-24, 12:28 | Link #35551 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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I've discovered that the Umineko wikia gives off the ages of the Ushiromiya siblings claiming they are:
Krauss: 52 Eva: 50 Rudolf: 40 Rosa: 35 Is there some official source for this or did they make it up? Because I can't find it being mentioned anywhere in the VN or in the official timeline... |
2016-04-07, 12:52 | Link #35552 |
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Maybe in the PS3 material with Character Sheets?
Going by in-game numbers Krauss should be at least 48 years old unless Natsuhi was younger, but I don't think. But George is 22 years old (Jessica is 18) that means Eva had an 'advantage' of 4 up to 8 years. So Krauss could be at most 56 years old and Eva 54y. Rudolf/Rosa should be clear. |
2016-04-08, 19:42 | Link #35553 | |
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While I don't have the full booklet in the pictures I have which showing the PS3 character sheets I can't see any reference to the characters age or birthyear. |
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2016-04-10, 15:16 | Link #35554 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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I didn't know Natsuhi's age depends on Eva's, too.
George's birthdate is 16th March according to the wikia. Umineko timeline states this: Quote:
I guess you should ask Rambler because he/she got the most information about ages/birthdays. |
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2016-04-13, 19:37 | Link #35555 | ||
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According to the official timeline George is born in 1963 1963 – 絵羽と秀吉の息子として譲治が誕生。 1963 - Eva and Hideyoshi’s son George is born. It also confirms that Battler had birth in 1968 on July 15th. I'm not sure what you're trying to say but what I was interested in having was confirmation if the wikia had found in some official source those ages or they made it up chosing they could be likely right. |
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2016-04-14, 02:53 | Link #35556 |
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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http://umineko.renai.ru → unofficial timeline
I didn't refer the timeline of umineco.info which lists George's birth year as 1964. So...what is this official timeline you speak of? I'd rather calculate the estimated birthdates than suggesting the actual birthdates with no sources. Maybe Ryukishi released them on twitter earlier? |
2016-04-14, 11:21 | Link #35557 | |
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Sadly it doesn't contain everything (for example there's no birth year for the adults) but there's one for the cousins (though only for Battler he listed birthyear and birthday... the others just have their birthyear and that's it) Everything is possible, that's why I'd like to know if there's a source for those ages or if people just made them up. |
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2016-07-07, 18:17 | Link #35558 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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For who hasn't seen it yet.
Somebody is currently reading Umineko and sharing theories and thoughts about it. He/she has created a thread for it on the "Visual Novels, Mobage & Anime Spin-Off Games" board. Umineko Playthrough Topic (Progressive spoilers and Discussions) He/she wants to have some spoiler free discussion about his/her theories. |
2016-07-08, 21:00 | Link #35559 | |
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Location: Where you're not.
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2016-07-10, 13:51 | Link #35560 |
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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Hello i hope somebody will share their opinions on this. Basically i would like to know is the meta world just something
a)Tohya, Ikuko and Sayo literally wrote in their forgeries so just a part of those 3 peoples stories b) is it a real place where the souls of people gather or c) is it just showing metaphorically the struggle of real life characters (Ange and Tohya for example dealing with pain and memories) Thanks |
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