2011-01-22, 01:50 | Link #2061 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Yuki should have pull the "If you love me than you should wait till I'm ready, if not than it's over between us since you obviously wanted my body instead of actually loving me" card. That's one way that women often test man if there only after there bodies (hit it and quit it) or actually love them enough to wait till there ready. She also could have said that if they do actually end up doing it wont be in the School of all places because she's not going to cheapen herself like that.
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2011-01-22, 04:34 | Link #2062 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington State
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Seriously, compare the countries that are low teen pregnancy with those that are the oldest in median age, and you'll find the lists to be nearly identical. Which is also why in some of those countries, especially Japan, there is actually a large worry of a dramatic population decrease due to low birth rates. Your point is still valid in some ways, but the information with which you tried to increase it's strength was not. |
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2011-01-22, 05:31 | Link #2063 | |
Tin Can
Join Date: Nov 2009
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2011-01-22, 06:06 | Link #2064 |
Itadaki-nyaaa !!
Join Date: Apr 2008
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It's no secret that the average American person is rather conservative when it comes to sexual outspokenness and sex in general compared to common European "standards" , you don't need numbers for that. I don't mean to derogate this conservatism, however, any serious psychologist will confirm that repressing sexuality just makes what it actually tries to achieve worse in the end.
What I really wanted to get at, even though my first paragraph might not support that (), is that this is an old debate on principles that has already been pursued several times even here on AS. Not saying you should stop arguing about it but don't expect to change the other side's view Back on topic: Putting all the blame on Yuki's shoulders is just plain ridiculous. It's not like she questioned their relationship to get into his pants. She also didn't set up a camera and showed it to others out of sheer group pressure or greed for money. To put it blatantly, this notion is sexist as f*** . It's true Yuki did a mistake here, no doubt, but that doesn't mean she is to blame for the general situation at all. Last edited by Waven; 2011-01-22 at 07:55. |
2011-01-22, 06:44 | Link #2065 |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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For me, it's the risk vs reward at a certain time in a persons life. The reason there's an age for drinking is because when you're older, you're more able to handle the responsibility than when you're a kid. Heck, even driving a car, you have to be 15-16 in the States.
You may be taught how to use a condom, but as effective as they are, they aren't 100% and there's a lot of people who are stupid enough, especially teens, who don't use them. Plus, if the worse should happen, a 14 year old getting accidentally knocked up is much worse than an 18-19 year old who's already graduated from high school, has a degree and is able to actually support a child. And I'm actually wondering if Yuki and Tooru used protection or if she just got lucky. But Waven is right-- it's just a different world view and how we were raised, combined with people's own circumstances. As I've said, I've seen enough teen pregnancy to be wary.
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2011-01-22, 08:28 | Link #2066 | |
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There is a difference in preganncy in 14-16 year old than 18-19, it still can mess a bit, but at school the demage is certainly much, much higher than after you finish it and get degree. |
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2011-01-22, 09:04 | Link #2067 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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For me yuki has 50% fault same goes for touru, I pull out the friends from the equation atm, as they didn't put touru stick in yuki ... It was all yuki/touru doings, what friends say is what friends say, if someone is retarded enough to not say no then its their fault. Anyway I'm out from this discussion as all of you people will defend yuki like she is some fluffy hurt thing, for me she is just an idiot who makes herself *oh so hurt*. People had worse things done to them in their life and I didn't see them react as stupid as her. |
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2011-01-22, 11:46 | Link #2069 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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and for mr stat disbeliever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage...obal_incidence That table is from a measure of pregnant women or moms between 13 - 19 / 1000 13 - 19 women |
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2011-01-22, 12:23 | Link #2070 |
In the Tatami Galaxy ↓
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I'm already into my 20s and I can honestly say I'm as conservative as guys come. I'm the one who waits for marriage before engaging in any untoward intercourse, and that's held true up to now. Even with this stance, however, I really can't judge Yuki. She wanted to prove his love for Touru even if she didn't want to do it, and then she got burned by him so horribly. Even if it really wasn't his fault, the fact that he coerced her to do it directs my hate on him, and not on Yuki. I'm sure that things will eventually be cleared up between him and Yuki and I think I'm spot on that the last obstacle to their relationship is Yuki's past - which is what we've seen now. I don't think we'll end up with the protagonists being alone in the end, primarily because Utsumi is stupid enough and loving enough to be stubborn, and Yuki actually sees who Utsumi really is. She just can't let go of her past, and I don't expect her to so soon. I don't think she's a whore, however. I actually think Shou was more of an idiot than Yuki, especially because Yuki did not dupe Utsumi the way Shou did, even if unconsciously.
I mean I may initially revile Yuki, but if I got to know the circumstances I would certainly root for her and Utsumi ending up together, even with her reservations. She was very helpful to Utsumi, although wounded by her past and thus unwilling to trust. It's actually like The Town in this sense.
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2011-01-22, 12:40 | Link #2071 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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One has to admit that Yuki is one psychologically scarred girl. It would be naive to say that love heals all wounds, and being together with someone who truly loves her (Utsumi) isn't going to magically make her problems go away. This goes beyond being healed just by being with him. To really BE with him, she's got a ton of demons she has to face, one of which is learning to forgive herself and, maybe, even Tohru.
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2011-01-22, 13:50 | Link #2072 | |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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However, being taught how to use them doesn't mean you're going to be responsible enough to use them. Some will, obviously, others won't. And in the case of pregnancy, it's not just your own life you could be ruining, but the life of the child that you have to raise with no income, no diploma much of the time. Not only that, it puts a drain on taxes because many young mothers need welfare (and consequently end up not getting off of it). And if you notice, I had no problems with Suzuka and Yamato doing it and having a baby. Why? Because they were a bit older and able to take responsibility for that child's life. A 14-15 year can't do that and it usually ends up in abortion (a horrible thing unless the mother's life is in danger) or giving the kid away for adoption. As I mentioned, we have age restrictions on things because we want to make sure people are responsible and young teenagers usually aren't. There's a reason why they have high car insurance and aren't allowed to drink. Again, different society, different culture, different ways of looking at things...
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Last edited by KLGChaos; 2011-01-22 at 22:29. |
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2011-01-22, 14:40 | Link #2073 | |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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I wish I was able to chime in sooner, lol.
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2011-01-22, 15:15 | Link #2074 | |
zzz
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Noone said Yuki wasn't stupid. The whole point here is that yes, she probably made a mistake, but she is the victim here. Girls are generally more emotional than guys (there are biological reasons for that), and if they get betrayed and used like that, their reaction would be in line with Yuki's,..its not really that surprising. I don't see how she is to blame at all. She was operating under the assumption that Touru loved her, which obviously wasn't true as he was lying to her. She made an error in judging his character, but that is an intellectual defect not a moral one. Touro and his friends are the ones who should be blamed for moral failings.
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2011-01-22, 15:32 | Link #2075 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Then he just goes the ".. i love you ..." next panel (forgetting the scenery panels) she already spread her legs. Makes me giggle at how stupid she is, but hey its me being my cold self who analyze any situation with a common sense and brain. |
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2011-01-22, 16:18 | Link #2076 | |
flargansbog
Join Date: Mar 2006
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2011-01-22, 16:37 | Link #2077 |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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Of course there was a part of her that wanted to do it. Having sex with the person you love, that's how he guilted her into doing it. The part that wants to make love to the person she loves won out and the part that said to wait for a proper time and place went "I told you so" when it was all over.
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2011-01-22, 17:30 | Link #2078 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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2011-01-22, 19:33 | Link #2080 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Well, I guess the problem began in chapter 49 at around page 14, where Touru said something (in a flashback) to Yuki like "Do you see me as a man?". Then it's probably that Touru wanted to prove that he's a man, not for Yuki alone, but also towards the guys at school. In the manga there's no certainty that Touru knew about the camera and that the guys were recording it or not. But in my opinion it doesn't even matter, since that bet with the guys whether he can seduce Yuki to do naughty things together is already something that can not be tolerated between true lovers. So how much money (in Yen) is Yuki's trust and love worth? Probably not much in the eyes of Touru.
I don't know what Touru was thinking at the time, but something like "girls are replaceable, but mates/friends are not" perhaps? Otherwise you wouldn't do this kind of thing, Touru was backstabbing Yuki by doing such stupid thing to her, while she had given her trust by doing things that true lovers would do, making love with eachother. Also how Touru asked Yuki, it's almost blackmailing her in the fashion like: "if you are are not doing it with me now, then you do not love me" and mixing with some sweet words like "I love you more than anyone else" and add "isn't it natural wanting to do it (i.e. making love)" to make sure Yuki would felt guilty if she's not doing it. Touru didn't do anything to support Yuki after that "incident", even after he said that he loves her more than anyone else. Then Touru is a big fat liar! And the boys who had set up this trap for Yuki, they were the worst, in a country like Japan you just don't joke around with these kind of things such as "stealing the virginity of a girl, taped it, spread it around at school and said "we won". Even here in the west in countries such as the USA or UK it's not normal to do things like that. Is Yuki really that stupid or is she really in love with Touru who had abused her trust to let her step on a trap which the boys had made? Why can't Yuki trust her own boyfriend who she had dated for 3 months - or was the boys' trap a 3 months worth of work (so Touru never liked Yuki to begin with!?)? |
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being good sucks, drama, kento boss, romance, shoukento, shounen, slice of life, yukiumi |
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