Nekomonogatari Black - 2-Hour Special Discussion / Poll

[Xical]

If nekomonogatari kuro is making viewers start to question what (not who) is Hanekawa, then shaft mission will be successful, because this will make ppl go to read the LN or wait for next anime season of -monogatari.

[lordblazer]

The music was amazing, and the artwork was incredible. The use of the various angles and optical illusions made this an interesting show to watch. Unfortunately, the writing was terrible. Don't get me wrong, the story itself was cohesive and very easy to comprehend. The problem was just some of the logic used to justify the characters' motives within this special. Anyway that's my overall opinion on this.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by lordblazer

Unfortunately, the writing was terrible. Don't get me wrong, the story itself was cohesive and very easy to comprehend. The problem was just some of the logic used to justify the characters' motives within this special. Anyway that's my overall opinion on this.

Interesting. Care to explain this logic?

[Marcus H.]

On Part 3.

Wow, Tsubasa's life looks poisonous to Koyomi's brain. Interesting though that the sawarineko actually was inclined to help Tsubasa.

Honestly, I like sawarineko-Tsubasa than Tsubasa now. I think befriending Tsubasa now is like befriending an eroge character. @_@ Although she speaks or does things, they are all empty.

[Polarpew]

part 4, nicely set up guess Araragi didn't want to say he loved her because he wanted Hanekawa to save herself instead of him saving her? Funny how he said he learned to love from Hanekawa and immediately Senjougahara fell down the stairs

[Awrya]

Part 4 tied nicely into Bakemonogatari.
Great job by Shaft and very good writing by Nisio. I love how he gets from serious talk to sexual frustration without making it sound weird.

Second season coming in 2013, earliest is fall I guess.
It looks like they'll adapt everything from Neko- (White) to Koimonogatari. If they really plan to adopt 6 novels, with each novel getting 4 episodes, we might get a 2cour.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Polarpew

part 4, nicely set up guess Araragi didn't want to say he loved her because he wanted Hanekawa to save herself instead of him saving her? Funny how he said he learned to love from Hanekawa and immediately Senjougahara fell down the stairs

No, he clearly said he would do anything for her, but she just didn't ask for it.

I think it's a little difficult for Araragi to give his feelings to someone who constantly denies her own feelings everyday.

[00Coyote]

After seeing more of the Fire Sisters, I can safely say being a pervert and sexual deviancy must be genetic in the Araragi family. It's a wonder Koyomi has any control at all of his lusts.

[Shadow5YA]

Poor Araragi. He wanted to be the shonen hero he loves to be, but Hanekawa was the only girl who didn't ask to be saved and whom Araragi personally couldn't save.

[frubam]

wait a sec... First he loves Hanakawa, then tells himself it's not love, even though she was the one who made him discover these feelings for the first time, THEN declares that he'll love someone other than Hanakawa and will never say he loves her. I just don't understand this. Although I'm a supporter of the Hanakawa couple over the Hitagi one, looking at this objectively, I can't understand why he feels the need to NOT love her. Am I missing something here?

[Dawn]

This is the first monogatari that I had read the novel before watching the anime, so it is much easier to criticize and feel underwhelmed.

Nevertheless, Shaft have done a great job adapting the series so far and a superb job again. And unless you have read the original work, it's really not fair to blame Nisio.

Maybe this is a result from reading the novel first, but does anyone else feel that Hiroshi Kamiya doesnt really fit as Araragi?

During the monologues something just didn't work, though the writing was pretty average sometimes as well.

On a side note, if you're here from Bake/Nise then you know what to expect. Please don't come here and flaunt your ignorance by complaining and giving negative reviews.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by frubam

wait a sec... First he loves Hanakawa, then tells himself it's not love, even though she was the one who made him discover these feelings for the first time, THEN declares that he'll love someone other than Hanakawa and will never say he loves her. I just don't understand this. Although I'm a supporter of the Hanakawa couple over the Hitagi one, looking at this objectively, I can't understand why he feels the need to NOT love her. Am I missing something here?

Because Tsubasa is superior to Hitagi in every way (from Koyomi's perspective)... he does not just love her he worships her... and that is exactly the problem in their relationship. Unless Tsubasa tries a lot harder to behave more humanly (she does but is obviously superficial), there is no chance Koyomi can attempt something (Kizu- explored further that aspect). On the other hand, Koyomi is and feels superior to Hitagi in every way, while he can conveniently let her take the lead in their relationship, being able to "put her back into her place" anytime (as he did in Nise-).

Originally Posted by Dawn

On a side note, if you're here from Bake/Nise then you know what to expect. Please don't come here and flaunt your ignorance by complaining and giving negative reviews.

Amen... and may I add if someone didn't like all stories of Bake-, but one of them and/or its character, it's better to stop watching/reading now

[novalysis]

It sounds that it's more of a matter of Male Pride then, when it comes to Tsubasa's and Koyomi's relationship, the way you put it. But surely Koyomi no longer "worships" Tsubasa, after the events of Nekomonogatari?

I think that Tsubasa is one of the deepest characters of the Monogatari series. I think the exploration and deconstruction of perfection is a common theme in Nisio's works in general.

Spoiler for Comparison with Nisio's other work:

Come to think of it, the theme of humaness and perfection also comes to play with regards to Medaka, in Medaka Box. I wonder whether Tsubasa is the prototype of Medaka, in a certain way.

I wonder whether Medaka is Nisio's way of apologizing for Tsubasa's misfortune, from a Meta perspective.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Because Tsubasa is superior to Hitagi in every way (from Koyomi's perspective)... he does not just love her he worships her... and that is exactly the problem in their relationship. Unless Tsubasa tries a lot harder to behave more humanly (she does but is obviously superficial), there is no chance Koyomi can attempt something (Kizu- explored further that aspect). On the other hand, Koyomi is and feels superior to Hitagi in every way, while he can conveniently let her take the lead in their relationship, being able to "put her back into her place" anytime (as he did in Nise-).

In what way would Araragi be superior to Hitagi? I'm guessing a number of events led you to that conclusion, but I can't remember any particular instance of him showing any type of superiority over Hitagi, nor him alluding at such a thing.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Because Tsubasa is superior to Hitagi in every way (from Koyomi's perspective)... he does not just love her he worships her... and that is exactly the problem in their relationship. Unless Tsubasa tries a lot harder to behave more humanly (she does but is obviously superficial), there is no chance Koyomi can attempt something (Kizu- explored further that aspect). On the other hand, Koyomi is and feels superior to Hitagi in every way, while he can conveniently let her take the lead in their relationship, being able to "put her back into her place" anytime (as he did in Nise-).

No... I don't think Koyomi is superior to Hitagi. It was Hitagi who asked him out and pushed him for an answer. In almost every single banter they have, Koyomi is pulled along her pace.

I think the bigger problem is that Tsubasa is incapable of expressing her emotions. There's no way Koyomi can have a relationship based on emotions like love with a person who bottles away every emotion she has. It was mentioned more than once how the way she reacts to her family was repulsive and revolting.

[Marcus H.]

^ Likewise. For every exchange, very rarely does Koyomi become a tsukkomi. He's always the boke.

I think the bigger problem is that Tsubasa is incapable of expressing her emotions. There's no way Koyomi can have a relationship based on emotions like love with a person who bottles away every emotion she has. It was mentioned more than once how the way she reacts to her family was repulsive and revolting.

IIRC, the best example of an emotion Tsubasa can portray is— ah, darn it. Neko Black really destroyed Tsubasa's credibility in portraying true emotion. Now, I have to wonder if the smiles and giggles she had portrayed in Bake ever had a hint of sincerity... or all of those are "logical responses to a particular stimulus".

If those emotions are actually true, then is it possible that Koyomi was the only one who was able to make her "human" again?
Unfortunately, as she sorts out her feelings for Koyomi, the infamous "fall from grace the stairs" scene happened, and she lost all of her chances to get Koyomi's affection.

[Archon_Wing]

Part 3:
Ugh, Show don't tell. Way to go at 5 fps and not animate anything, Shaft

The last part was rather good though. I liked the part where Shinobu knocks some sense into him, not once but twice, and also how Araragi's inner thoughts were slowly collected to summariaze his relationship with Hanekawa. Pretty strong for a love that's not in a love. So he promises to fall in love with someone else for Hanekawa's sake. Well, that just puts a whole twist on the whole Hitagi thing doesn't it, though that sort of relationship never appealed to me in the first place.

Also, there was a wonderful shot of Hanekawa's thong from behind + Shinbo's obsession with people's feet. I could rate this higher, but I don't feel like it. 4/10

[Nochgo]

Ah, now I see why Hitagi is so afraid of Hanekawa

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Spoiler for Comparison with Nisio's other work:

Come to think of it, the theme of humaness and perfection also comes to play with regards to Medaka, in Medaka Box. I wonder whether Tsubasa is the prototype of Medaka, in a certain way.

I wonder whether Medaka is Nisio's way of apologizing for Tsubasa's misfortune, from a Meta perspective.

Spoiler for Follow-up on comparison:

Honestly, I'd say she's closer to a Minus. She even has Encounter.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Awrya

Second season coming in 2013, earliest is fall I guess.
It looks like they'll adapt everything from Neko- (White) to Koimonogatari. If they really plan to adopt 6 novels, with each novel getting 4 episodes, we might get a 2cour.

Well it's obviously going to be longer then 1 cour, giving Nise 1 7 episodes and then trying to fit the 6 novels of the 2nd season into 14-17 episodes would be a travesty, not to mention Aniplex missing out on a lot of money.

Either SHAFT animate 2 cours for 24-26 episodes or we'll see something like a split cour airing, maybe both being similar to Bake, 12 airing + a few after.. and keep in mind it could be a year between seasons, look @ how Horizon aired. In regards to giving the material justice the later would be the better option (would save us from a lot of LOL SHAFT moments as well, as if they could animate for 26 weeks in a row lol) and would make Aniplex the most money.... 6 Volumes + 6 Volumes for a split cour airing >> 9 Volumes for a two cour airing... if it sales @ Nise levels that's 180k in sales more.... and then you add in another say 120k for shipped.

Anyway hopefully a miracle occurs and Kizu airs in like April and the BD/DVD comes out during mid October just before Kabuki gets animated....