Sword Art Online - Anime General Discussion [NO SPOILERS]

[relentlessflame]

This is just a note that I moved a bunch of recent posts to the Game Mechanics & Technology because it was crying and lonely, languishing on the second page. Feel free to continue the conversation over there and show it some love.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Znail

Your post boils down to SAO not following the cliche's you like. The problem with your idea of how everything mysterious should be explained is that this means you can't have a mystery in the story. Right now so is it is a mystery to the MC how those things happened, but you want them to be explained anyway to the audience, just because it bothers you otherwise?

The main difference between SAO and Amagami SS is that in Amagami so are everyones reactions exagerated to make sure that the audience can easily see what the characters are thinking. The problem with that is that it's not very realistic as most normal people doesn't act like that. The problem with SAO is that you need some normal social competence to catch on what is going on rather then reading standardised anime ques.

It's not a matter of clichés.

Overall I just didn't find most of it any good - the directing, the plot etc. The only things I liked about it were the OP & ED songs and the setting - because I have played MMOs before.

Trust me I'm not that close minded to toss an anime out because it doesn't fit my preconceive notions. In fact, one thing I like about anime is how often they mix things up.

Currently watching, Shinsekai Yori. So far I'm very impressed. The character and set designs, audio work, directing (especially visually), pacing has been pretty darn good thus far.

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

It shouldn't have been that hard for Kirito to download Yui to his Nerve Gear's Memory and turn her in to a game object if it was a generic interface. Here are two post explaining how he could have done it and a post with the authors explanation of how Kirito did it.




MPHC001 is Yui's file name.


This is the author's explanation:

That's the thing. How would he know which file/folder to copy? As a player he should not have any knowledge of the servers system structure.

I played WoW for 3-4 years, I know crap about how things are organised at Blizzard's data centres - which server/database (too be honest doubt any MMO currently in operation use flat files to sort game data) is the game data stored in, what data structures they are using to hold the data, how to access those data structures ... etc. If you gave me for admin access to their servers, I still won't be able to do shit.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Obviously you were not convinced. But I was convinced. We both watched the same show. I found the build-up and supporting evidence to be fully sufficient. You did not. And this is all just based on the anime, not on novels or any other material. So what are our options?

a) You missed the supporting evidence and details that supported the relationship growth
b) I read too much into things that were shown to see evidence beyond what was intended
c) We both just have different perspectives and neither of us are either right or wrong
d) All of the above
e) Other...?

I mean, I can list all the evidence that I noticed in each episode that supported the conclusion and make the romance feel natural and convincing to me. I could even say "try watching the episodes again and this time pay attention only to the romantic development" to see if you notice the things I did. (In fairness, I watched each episode at least 2 or 3 times to make sure that I didn't miss any detail, given that I didn't come into this show with any novel knowledge.) But if it still wasn't convincing enough for you, what can I say?

Spoiler for Comparison to Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate anime:

I think the things that make the romance in KoiChoco (anime) unconvincing to me were largely because they were also tracking the progressing relationship with someone else for many episodes, and then set that aside/put it on hold. The theme was that he couldn't commit to any other relationship because he had been lying to himself about his dormant feelings for the lead heroine (using her trauma as an excuse to perpetuate the status quo). So the fact that the relationship didn't develop in a normal way was a key point, but this wasn't terribly exciting to watch. The romantic relationship came down to "I've been in love with her all along," and once she got over her trauma, all they had to do was accept it and move forward. It probably also didn't help that the nature of her trauma was overplayed to the point that the resolution may have seemed a bit trite.

Spoiler for Comparison to Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka (anime):

Incidentally, this is a similar problem to the one I had with Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka, where the anime was building up one relationship in the foreground, but used a "you're lying to yourself" premise to then appeared to switch to a different heroine at the end. (It didn't really switch -- obviously it was heading of that ending from the get-go.) It's not totally indefensible, but it isn't terribly satisfying to watch, for me. I like to see the groundwork being set more clearly.

In this show, though, no other significant romantic relationships were being built-up, and we see the progress of the relationship across each of its phases, with groundwork being set along the way. Each of the conflicts presented contributed to the relationship in some way. And in the context of the crisis that forced the relationship into its major turn, I found the denouement to make sense. Unlike a lot of shounen romance where the confession is the end-game, the relationship here actually saw some of its most significant growth after the marriage, where you really came to understand the importance the two played in each others lives, and the ways they complemented each other. So, on the whole, I found the relationship here much more convincing than KoiChoco, or even most (maybe not all) of the arcs in Amagami SS, and this in spite of the fact that the show also had a lot of other things going on. (Of course, like all things, that isn't to say that it couldn't be further improved, but I didn't find it woefully lacking.)

In the end, the anime wasn't able to convince you, and you consider that a fault in the anime. But the anime was able to convince me, so I can't agree that whatever fault you had with it was so insurmountable. So I think we're basically at an impasse, and all I can say is "sorry you didn't enjoy it".

I'm not trying to "objectively" assert that this anime is bad - I'm well aware of the futility of such debates; de gustibus non est disputandum. I'm just explaining why I felt it wasn't all that good to me.

My original post was to try to see what people found so good about to see if there is anything I'm missing out on. So far ... not much.

I believe a good deal of people liked it because it's their favour LN "bought to life" and for some, they don't mind the way the story is told - which I found OK-but-could-be-better; hence my trying to find out what could possibly be justifying it's popularity.

As for Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate anime

Spoiler for Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate:

The thing that irks me is how a romance relationship can developed at all, given how dysfunctional their platonic relationship is. The girl "needs serious help" and has been using him as a little brother substitute - and it was like this from the get go.

I prefer they show us the build up of the romance as the plot progress. That's kind of the point of the genre no?. They springing the "he was in love with her from the very start" just feels like DEM - doubly so for a harem romance show.

Also the fact that other way more attractive girls (Mifuyu, Satsuki) are in the show isn't helping justify their choice of "winning" heroine to the audience.

My memory of Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka is foggy. Although I do remember rather having "the other" girl win.

My main issue with SOA is they rushed / shortcut the build up phrase too much - there too many gaps - which leaves me "unconvinced". Since I'm unconvinced of the "build up", I have trouble accepting the later phrases. It's like a math proof, if there is an error in the early part of the proof, everything that follows building on it is "moot".

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Salt

That's the thing. How would he know which file/folder to copy? As a player he should not have any knowledge of the servers system structure.

I played WoW for 3-4 years, I know crap about how things are organised at Blizzard's data centres - which server/database (too be honest doubt any MMO currently in operation use flat files to sort game data) is the game data stored in, what data structures they are using to hold the data, how to access those data structures ... etc. If you gave me for admin access to their servers, I still won't be able to do shit.

There should be a coomand to identify the file name of a nearby something.

But I bet you didn't read the in debt MMO programing books written by the lead designer of WoW.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Salt

I believe a good deal of people liked it because it's their favour LN "bought to life" and for some, they don't mind the way the story is told - which I found OK-but-could-be-better; hence my trying to find out what could possibly be justifying it's popularity.

I'm not too satisfied with this rationale, because I think a lot of new fans have become interested in the series since the anime airing even not having read the novels beforehand. I'm one of them. But I suppose I didn't have the problem with the way the story was told either. I suppose it's possible that it could have been done differently, but all the alternatives I've seen people propose as supposedly better also have their own problems, particularly if you assume that they time they had to tell this story was relatively fixed (about 1-cour). When you consider that the first arc is just the first part of an ongoing story (and not the entire story), I think it makes more sense.

The novel author is apparently rewiring the first arc now to be presented in chronological order and to flesh out some missing details, so perhaps your concerns will be addressed there. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that the anime adaptation of the first arc is done now (but they too did a similar reorganization to help with the presentation of the plot).

Originally Posted by Salt

My main issue with SOA is they rushed / shortcut the build up phrase too much - there too many gaps - which leaves me "unconvinced". Since I'm unconvinced of the "build up", I have trouble accepting the later phrases. It's like a math proof, if there is an error in the early part of the proof, everything that follows building on it is "moot".

I honestly can't think of many "gaps". The only thing I can think of might be to add a bit of monologue/narration so that Kirito's feelings are exposed a little bit more -- but the anime has been rather consistent in that regard, using monologue only sparingly and trying to make sure everything is shown. So as far as "show don't tell" goes, I'm not too sure what was lacking. They could just randomly add more events, but I don't think they'd be essential. Maybe it would help convincing you, I guess.

By that aside, I'm not sure that I quite buy your overall premise either. What happens after helps explain what happened before as well; particularly, the scenes in Episode 13 help provide a lot of context to their relationship. So I can't agree that what comes after is moot; I think you have to take a holistic approach.


Anyway, probably not much else to say. I guess I just didn't see it the way you did, and that's that. *shrug*

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Salt

That's the thing. How would he know which file/folder to copy? As a player he should not have any knowledge of the servers system structure.

Yui explained what she was in the episode. "Mental Health Counseling Program prototype 1"

Kirito could have used Yui's name or her designation as a search term to find her folder.

[Salt]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I'm not too satisfied with this rationale, because I think a lot of new fans have become interested in the series since the anime airing even not having read the novels beforehand. I'm one of them. But I suppose I didn't have the problem with the way the story was told either. I suppose it's possible that it could have been done differently, but all the alternatives I've seen people propose as supposedly better also have their own problems, particularly if you assume that they time they had to tell this story was relatively fixed (about 1-cour). When you consider that the first arc is just the first part of an ongoing story (and not the entire story), I think it makes more sense.

The novel author is apparently rewiring the first arc now to be presented in chronological order and to flesh out some missing details, so perhaps your concerns will be addressed there. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that the anime adaptation of the first arc is done now (but they too did a similar reorganization to help with the presentation of the plot).


I honestly can't think of many "gaps". The only thing I can think of might be to add a bit of monologue/narration so that Kirito's feelings are exposed a little bit more -- but the anime has been rather consistent in that regard, using monologue only sparingly and trying to make sure everything is shown. So as far as "show don't tell" goes, I'm not too sure what was lacking. They could just randomly add more events, but I don't think they'd be essential. Maybe it would help convincing you, I guess.

By that aside, I'm not sure that I quite buy your overall premise either. What happens after helps explain what happened before as well; particularly, the scenes in Episode 13 help provide a lot of context to their relationship. So I can't agree that what comes after is moot; I think you have to take a holistic approach.


Anyway, probably not much else to say. I guess I just didn't see it the way you did, and that's that. *shrug*

Heh. Given that the author is filling in the two years probably means I'm not the only one complaining about "too many gaps".

But ya, I didn't feel the conveying of their relationship was well done. It just isn't doing it for me.

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

Yui explained what she was in the episode. "Mental Health Counseling Program prototype 1"

Kirito could have used Yui's name or her designation as a search term to find her folder.

Ignoring the fact that the OS in use by the server might not be "standard", hence have a completely different set of commands from what most people are used to, what makes him think it's stored in a file and not in a database? (If it's a DB, you will need to know something like SQL to retrieve data.)

Heck it might not even be in permanent storage, her data could exist solely in RAM since she is a running process. You will need a debugger to dig out her address in memory and know how her data is organised in order to copy the relevant parts.

Then there is the copy2nervgear command, how does he know what the command is (that is definitely a custom command/program) or how to use it.

Let me ask you. If you have an MMO installed, tell me right now where the model data for any random sword is. I want you to do this in 5 secs. This is on your computer BTW not a foreign system. I doubt you can do so.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Salt

Ignoring the fact that the OS in use by the server might not be "standard", hence have a completely different set of commands from what most people are used to [...]

This topic has already been discussed a fair bit in the Game Mechanics & Technology (believe me; you're not the first one to mention it), so please read what was said over there and continue the conversation there if you wish.

[GingerNinja21]

I've only just finished watching the current episodes available and i LOVE it! This is an anime that deserves so much notice! In my opinion it's the best anime I've seen. Just makes me wish all of it was actually real

[Tsukiyomi]

Any words if [a future arc] will be animated and beyond?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

Any words if [a future arc] will be animated and beyond?

No arcs beyond this one will be animated in the current season at least. No future seasons have been announced yet, but with the positive sales I have to expect that it's as likely as anything ever can be.

[Tsukiyomi]

There's a bunch of Sword Art figures coming out. Maybe potential merchandise will spark for more seasons?!

[Divini]

To Aru, Shana, and ZnT are the other big LNs which got multiple seasons with lower initial sales than SAO right now if I recall. Also SAO is as (if not more) popular as those 3 were at the time of their first seasons.

If that's not optimistic enough, I don't know what is.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Divini

To Aru, Shana, and ZnT are the other big LNs which got multiple seasons with lower initial sales than SAO right now if I recall. Also SAO is as (if not more) popular as those 3 were at the time of their first seasons.

If that's not optimistic enough, I don't know what is.

Coincidentally all three of your examples are done by JC Staff; whether A1 would follow suit is up for discussion

If you need more pessimism, I can always bring up Haruhi who is now sitting pretty on 1.5 seasons

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Coincidentally all three of your examples are done by JC Staff; whether A1 would follow suit is up for discussion

If you need more pessimism, I can always bring up Haruhi who is now sitting pretty on 1.5 seasons

I believe they would, they've given multiple seasons to some of their previous successful shows, like WORKING!!.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by FDW

I believe they would, they've given multiple seasons to some of their previous successful shows, like WORKING!!.

Two as far as I know; Working and Black Butler.

None of which are Light Novel adaptations though and Working!! is only 1 cour, while Black Butler s2 is Anime Original.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

Any words if [a future arc] will be animated and beyond?

The only problem I can see is the difficulty of fitting the future arcs into an even number of episodes of whole seasons. Else so would it be a no-brainer for any anime company to do another season for a successful anime series were there is more source material to base new seasons on.

[kyp275]

Hmm, I think they can def. do an one-cour follow up with the next arc, beyond that though it does get tricky...

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Two as far as I know; Working and Black Butler.

None of which are Light Novel adaptations though and Working!! is only 1 cour, while Black Butler s2 is Anime Original.

There's also Birdy The Mighty, Big Windup, and Uta no Prince-sama. And that doesn't even get into the sheer number of specials and OVA's that A-1 has dished out.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by FDW

There's also Birdy The Mighty, Big Windup, and Uta no Prince-sama. And that doesn't even get into the sheer number of specials and OVA's that A-1 has dished out.

Fair enough, however if you think production for a full 2 cour season is the same as specials and OVAs, then you have another thing coming.

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Fair enough, however if you think production for a full 2 cour season is the same as specials and OVAs, then you have another thing coming.

I know it isn't, but my the overall point that I was making from it is still valid, A-1 is more than willing make more of series that sells well. (I didn't even bother to bring in Fairy Tail and Uchuu Kyodai into this argument, even though they're both made by A-1 as well, and fit the mold of SAO in terms of length more finely than anything else here.)