Macross Delta - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

I only watched a few episodes of Frontier, and remember them somewhat vaguely. But from what I can remember, I'd probably give Frontier an edge in these two categories:

1. Jet-fighter action

2. Sheryl exemplifying the pop diva character type.


At the same time, I recall Frontier's less action-y sections boring me a bit. Delta has yet to bore me. Even its more questionable bits still tend to be entertaining or charming.

On the whole, I find Delta more fun than I remember Frontier being. And Walkure is just amazingly fun and likeable.

My biggest issue with Delta is probably the Windermere side. Their motivations and characterization leave something to be desired so far. I hope Roid has a compelling master plan. That may well be the final push that this show needs to achieve greatness, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Delta is a consistently entertaining, high quality series

Agreed.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'd say Freyja saving the day in episode 8 was plenty memorable myself.

Well, shows leave different impressions on different people. While I'd say Delta is pretty darn awesome overall, there aren't that many parts that have left a really strong impression on me the way many parts of Frontier did (I'm not just talking about big scenes here -there are many little moments in Frontier that I love as well).

That being said, if I was to chose a scene from this episode as a particular stand out, it would actually be Walkure rescuing the main trio from the Aerial Knights.

[Triple_R]

I thought Freyja saving the day with her singing was a beautiful scene.

Is it also memorable? That might depend on how often Freyja has this sort of scene over the full course of the show. I'm confident that some of the Freyja hero scenes will be memorable once it's all said and done. I doubt this will be her last one.


My overall favorite Delta scene so far is Freyja's final audition scene.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Well, shows leave different impressions on different people. While I'd say Delta is pretty darn awesome overall, there aren't that many parts that have left a really strong impression on me the way many parts of Frontier did (I'm not just talking about big scenes here -there are many little moments in Frontier that I love as well).

Na uh! Delta left a huge impression, I will now forever look at apples in a vastly different light!

- Tak

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Tak

Na uh! Delta left a huge impression, I will now forever look at apples in a vastly different light!

- Tak

Just don't drink water when you eat them and you should be fine

[Roger Rambo]

And Hayate and Freyja perfectly illustrate why the Windbag Knights are in every conceivable way a buncha useless cowardly jerks. Bogue, you savor that miserable feeling that wallowed up in your gut when your worthless life was spared. That's what it feels like being in the presence of a man far better than you will ever be.

A lot of people have noted that Roid probably has a shady agenda, but at this point, I'm having a hard time seeing how it could be worse than what the regular war mongers on Windemere want. But if the wingbags are good for anything, they can descend to new lows like it's nobodies business. I'm perfectly willing to believe there was something sinister about him keeping an unarmed girl from being summarily executed.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'd say Freyja saving the day in episode 8 was plenty memorable myself.

That was really quite good, but I suspect the show will have more crazy stuff to awe us with. It's rather nice to know that if they're going for the crazy setup of the magical girls in the field, they're at least willing to play up the hammy musical powered heroism. Freyja really has grown on me overall.


Next episode we're probably going to look into Messer's Var syndrome. Unlike most of the cases we've seen so far, it doesn't seem like a heart felt song will permanently get rid of it.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by charles883

I think that Windermere are actually Protoculture super soldier race superior to zentradi similar to clone army(superior soldier compared to normal trooper but has shorter lifespan) After protoculture fallen the remaining soldier was then formed civilization.

If theory true I wonder how Roid, royal family, Aerial knight react to that revelation.

Perhaps they were created as super soldiers of the protoculture but were taken over by the VAR which was one factor that caused the fall of the protoculture. Their descendents while not affected like the rest are still subconsciously being controlled. They think that they are controlling the VAR and those affected when in fact the royal knights are just puppets of the VAR hence why they were affected by Freyja's song.

[Darthtabby]

TripleR, I'd kind of like to discuss Delta/Frontier comparisons with you, but do you think we could move it to the general discussion thread or your social group? I kind of feel like I shouldn't be distracting from the Episode 8 discussion with talk about Frontier (more than I already have been ).

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Perhaps they were created as super soldiers of the protoculture but were taken over by the VAR which was one factor that caused the fall of the protoculture. Their descendents while not affected like the rest are still subconsciously being controlled. They think that they are controlling the VAR and those affected when in fact the royal knights are just puppets of the VAR hence why they were affected by Freyja's song.

Ya know I gotta admit. That is a REALLY interesting theory. That whole thing is pretty damn suspect. If someone hit ME with an attack that was literally powered by love and hope and it actually managed to hurt me, I might have to start seriously reevaluating my position.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I thought Freyja saving the day with her singing was a beautiful scene.

Is it also memorable? That might depend on how often Freyja has this sort of scene over the full course of the show. I'm confident that some of the Freyja hero scenes will be memorable once it's all said and done. I doubt this will be her last one.

My overall favorite Delta scene so far is Freyja's final audition scene.

Agreed with you. I started with no expectation of Freyja and she surprised me in a good way. She's become one of my favorite Macross heroines, right there with Misa and Sheryl in only 8 episodes.

[Wandering Soul]

All around a good episode for both Freyja and Hayate. Freyja found her resolve and let her singing show what she wants to do while Hayate got to take down Borgue. Freyja has grown.

If we go down the predictable route, then Hayate's father was probably some important pilot or military figure.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Ya know I gotta admit. That is a REALLY interesting theory. That whole thing is pretty damn suspect. If someone hit ME with an attack that was literally powered by love and hope and it actually managed to hurt me, I might have to start seriously reevaluating my position.

I don't think they were hurt. Roid was fascinated. Heinz and the King mostly commented about the song.

Keith was angry in general because his whole honorable duel with Messer was disturbed for several reasons. He's probably concerned that Freyja's more powerful than his brother. Bogue was the only one who reacted badly but, look at his runes, they were changing colors from red to yellow. So it's probably the equivalent of hormones, IMO.

[John117xCortana]

Hayate is too kind towards his enemies, he spared that arrogant jackass's life today but tomorrow he's gonna come back and possibly take his friends life.

Freyja's wish to sing and for no more war....many before her have wished for that too. But the thing is that war is inevitable.

[magnuskn]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Windbag assumption about that being created last by the Protoculture makes them destined would turn out to be the exact opposite, i.e. that they were kind of an afterthought.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Windbag assumption about that being created last by the Protoculture makes them destined would turn out to be the exact opposite, i.e. that they were kind of an afterthought.

I doubt that because Freyja is the Chosen One who could do what other idols couldn't right now: revive protoculture ruins. They are going to turn out important, but important, imo, in what Freyja role has: she guides and syncs powering up other races (we saw with Hayate). Their current actions are likely the opposite of what protoculture wanted. Taking Hayate and Freyja as example, it could be that Windermerians were made to complement humanity, so they have to work together to reach their mutual full potential which would make sense, considering this is Macross. Keith and Messer, despite being rivals, have also this weird wind connection. Maybe there's a human they can resonate with.

Even so, I'm still sticking to my theory with the protodeviln, if Kawamori still remembers them.

[magnuskn]

Oh, and btw, Frontier was my favorite Macross show and also my favorite anime of all time, with Sheryl being my favorite female anime character of all time and Alto being my favorite male anime character of all time. So I may just be a tiiiiny bit prejudiced towards liking Frontier more. ^^

That being said, I like Delta, it just doesn't "wow" me yet. It seems so far to lack that certain spark of greatness which I found in other works of fiction, like Macross Frontier, The Dresden Files, Mass Effect or The Witcher videogames.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Windbag assumption about that being created last by the Protoculture makes them destined would turn out to be the exact opposite, i.e. that they were kind of an afterthought.

Or simply incomplete, like the Orks in W40K, which were created in haste and left to their own vice.

Originally Posted by Thess

I doubt that because Freyja is the Chosen One who could do what other idols couldn't right now: revive protoculture ruins.

This is not the first time when a Protoculture ruin/device/artifact/creation was awoken, or being interacted with by members of humanity. Its just that Protoculture ruins react differently to different people. Frejya can communicate with the ruins in that particular territory, but so did the rest of Walkure. The ruin probably required an ensemble to bring it back to life, with each member being as important as the next.

Originally Posted by Thess

Even so, I'm still sticking to my theory with the protodeviln, if Kawamori still remembers them.

Maybe, but we know the Wind did not create Var, they were merely weaponized, and the Walkure (before Frejya) had the power to de-weaponize them. So there is a dynamic here with its full details not entirely revealed.

If the Wind was created to counter the Protodevlins, I am afraid they are very underwhelming for that purpose.

- Tak

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Thess

I doubt that because Freyja is the Chosen One who could do what other idols couldn't right now: revive protoculture ruins. They are going to turn out important, but important, imo, in what Freyja role has: she guides and syncs powering up other races (we saw with Hayate). Their current actions are likely the opposite of what protoculture wanted. Taking Hayate and Freyja as example, it could be that Windermerians were made to complement humanity, so they have to work together to reach their mutual full potential which would make sense, considering this is Macross. Keith and Messer, despite being rivals, have also this weird wind connection. Maybe there's a human they can resonate with.

Uh, the ruin did respond to Walkure (or at least Mikumo) singing when they rescued the main trio earlier in the episode though...

Interesting theory about them being meant to compliment humanity (perhaps that should be "other protoculture races"?) though.

[Fairy Water]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Hayate is too kind towards his enemies, he spared that arrogant jackass's life today but tomorrow he's gonna come back and possibly take his friends life.

I guess they want to put some Jeus Kira in him
This Ep is a pain to watch for me. Hayate maybe not good in hand-fighting but I didn't expect Mirage to down in one hit. She was pretty badass in Ep 1.

I don't even understand why Messer is infected. The only thing that hit him was a bullet or they make bullet out of Apple?

6 Knights couldn't do anything with the hologram while holding a hostage.
Talking about war with kid is sure a waste of time. All they think of are food So I get that the citizen of Windermere do not know about war but don't they ever question about what is the kingdom's army doing?

Even now I still think the idea of using songs to affect brain wave is kinda dumb. Throughout 8 eps, most of the cases are solved when they heard the Walkure (or should I say only Mikumo and Freyja) directly or in close-up distance. Sometimes it works from a far sometimes it's not. Sometimes the whole group sing and still nothing works, either Mikumo or Freyja sings directly to boost the fight. How did they survived before Freyja join them anyway?

This show is getting down to me with all the cliche and dumb logic, plot holes. It does entertain if u don't think much about the plot and just want to see idols and triangle love.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tak

If the Wind was created to counter the Protodevlins, I am afraid they are very underwhelming for that purpose.

It's not like humans have a grand purpose either. They just capitalized on what they learned after meeting the Zentraedi and took this on their hands. Delta isn't human-centric though, only one member of the main cast is human. Still, I think that de-brainwash the protoculture races using var was the original purpose, but that's my pet theory and relies on Kawamori recalling a race he generally avoids mentioning.

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Uh, the ruin did respond to Walkure (or at least Mikumo) singing when they rescued the main trio earlier in the episode though...

Hmm wouldn't say that. They felt heavy and burdened, including Mikumo. Mikumo tried to communicate and failed. While Freyja was able to snap that out and outright revived them.

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Interesting theory about them being meant to compliment humanity (perhaps that should be "other protoculture races"?) though.

I single out humanity because the two instances of this resonance was with humans: Messer and Hayate. Plus they* hate humans so much that is only ironic that they were made as their partners to complete what each other was missing. Besides the strong protoculture songstresses (counting Basara) we know so far are humans (or human hybrids) and Windermerians. That isn't a coincidence, imo, considering their weight in Macross lore. I think this drama is gonna turn out into a pointless competition between two species that should complement each other, IMO. With Hayate and Freyja as symbolic of the heights they could reach together as team. Just my two cents about what could be like, based on what we've seen so far, what Macross is at heart (uniting species through song and culture) and how Windermerians aren't supposed to come out as Gundam villains.

*Just the nobility and military classes, common folk seems to be kept in the dark.