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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 17 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 44 | 51.16% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 22 | 25.58% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 11 | 12.79% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 6 | 6.98% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.16% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.16% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 1.16% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-02-15, 14:06 | Link #101 | ||
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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The lack of internal security can only be explained as there were no need for such for the longest of time until Makishima riled things up. The another striking thing was the auditorium-like room the enforcers were sitting in as they were getting briefed before heading out to deal with the riot. I'm guessing the police force used to be pretty big also at one point before the need for it faded away, and the size shrunk to its current number. How long has this order lasted? If it is anything more than a decade, then in human term, that's a loooong period of time for revising conventional outlook and make policy-change. To me, at least, it makes sense as to why there is a lack of, what we would consider, security. Quote:
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2013-02-15, 16:32 | Link #102 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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2013-02-15, 16:36 | Link #103 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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They don't have any reason to WANT the system to be efficent. They are just as likely to mess with the system for their own entertainment. Just because they are reduced to brains doesn't mean they stop acting like humans.
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2013-02-15, 16:50 | Link #104 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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2013-02-15, 17:56 | Link #106 |
SIBYL salesman
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Wow, what a loaded episode!
The explanation of usage of the brains is a little confusing. Is the Psycho-pass reading is still somewhat mechanical and it interrogates the knowledge of the existing 200+ brains, or do the brains collectively judge the people via comparing their stream of concious against the person being scanned (or something like that)? The fact they can force another person to be a "cog in the machine" implies the former, but the Touma somewhat implies the latter as well. The former implies the brains, too, are essentially "sheeps" of the system, but they get special perks like stepping outside of the system once in a while (eg. assume the Chief's body/control the nation) and experience euphoria via higher level of intellegence. Well actually, is there a difference between the two (or in fact, is both cases true in this story)? |
2013-02-15, 19:38 | Link #109 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Ideally when it comes to crime coefficient, the measurement should be based on purely on their likelyhood to commit criminal actions, without any personal bias. People can accept this as being fair when they think it's objective machines producing the crime coefficient readings. But what happens when you introduce the uncertainty of of Sybil actually being a small group of mind reading egomaniacs who think they're gods, and look down on normal people? Think about Tomomi's conversation with Gino about rising crime coefficient. Tomomi's crime coefficient started rising not because of some criminal tendencies, but because he started to feel doubts about his job. His crime coefficient only stopped rising once he learned to *accept* Sybil. There has in fact been allot of talk throughout the series about how clear hues and low crime coefficients as if they were less related to violent/psychopahic/sociopathic tendencies, and more related to accepting Sybil, and Sybil not rejecting you...almost like Sybil was some kinda of temperamental entity that didn't like individuals who didn't adore it. And now we know that Sybil isn't an impartial computer system. It's 250 human beings who think of themselves as gods, using their arbitrary intuition to decide who is a latent criminal. Now tell me. Are these people going to objectively judge crime coefficients of peaceful non violent citizens who might just happen to have some misgiving about the nature of the system? Or will they, as gods, be displeased when the puny mortals don't offer up unconditional devotion as a sacrifice? It takes some obtuse thinking to not recognize this as a tyrannical abuse of power, and something very likely given how we know Sybil actually works. edit: Another potential example is Yayoi. A talented Sybil sanctioned musician, and a perfectly mentally healthy individual whose almost garunteed to never commit a crime that would menace society...and then she starts appreciating music out of the confines of what Sybil defines as good. She's still utterly law abiding...but what do the brains think of someone who rejects their judgement on what makes good music? Do they handle it calmly and rationally? Or do they decide to get their nickers in a twist for about .05 milliseconds, and arbitrarily flag her as a latent criminal? Quote:
The horrific implication here, is that EVERY SINGLE ONE of the brains currently running the Sybil system likely got scouted because of committing crimes violent enough to get them noticed.
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Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2013-02-15 at 19:59. |
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2013-02-16, 01:33 | Link #110 | |
Senior Member
Author
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How do you know they are not messing around the system for their own entertainment? At least one of these brains is that of a serial killer, and we know that Makishima (Sibyl's new star recruit) is often a horribly sadistic person with murderous tendencies (and Makishima himself is also arguably a serial killer). To think that none of these brains ever gets sadistic shits and giggles out of screwing up, if not outright destroying, people's lives is the heights of naivety, imo. Then there's what Roger wrote. This is an impressively monstrous system that Gen has conceived of, imo.
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2013-02-16, 06:58 | Link #111 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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What about a version of the system that's completely impartial? Perhaps even actually run by several supercomputers working in tandem? One that focused more on mental healthcare rather than getting dissenters out of the way?
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2013-02-16, 07:27 | Link #112 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Frankly, given how the director talked about it? Someone who WASN'T willing to seriously violate social taboos as serious as murder probably wouldn't be considered a good candidate for the Sybil system by the other brains. The way she described the requirements and how the detection process works...almost everyone of those brains sounds like it's garunteed to be some kind of sociopath murderer. I think the real question now is this. 50 years ago, WHO exactly behind closed doors thought that making 250 serial killers the perpetual tyrants of all of Japan was a good idea?
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2013-02-16, 08:15 | Link #113 |
~Official Slacker~
Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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Wait a minute. That whole dialogue-heavy description of the Sibyl System. Is just a bunch of intellectual's brains (while still active with their own thoughts) stuffed inside glasses? Playing the role of God with Japan's population? Does that mean that once the Dominator points at someone. They automatically deduct how to deal with that person instead of a machine reading their emotions/minds? Explains a whole bunch on why they didn't want to kill Makishima then.
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2013-02-16, 08:43 | Link #114 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Quote:
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2013-02-16, 08:44 | Link #115 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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I was kinda irritated that Makishima was able to escape so easily but it was my only complaint (well other than the noticeable drop in animation).
I knew right away that Makishima would reject the offer it was still good to hear his explanation because it's just so uncomfortable. His reasoning is almost the same as mine and yet that same reasoning is his excuse in murdering so many people.
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2013-02-16, 10:42 | Link #118 |
maybenotimome
Join Date: Feb 2011
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I'm finding it unlikely the idea of them/brains willingly letting makishima going around totally immune to scans, if they really could detect him they wouldn't had to look for him and giving him as missing, but would have instead just gone to fetch him from the start, avoiding a lot of fuss and damages for themselfes
same about the helmets and the "the brains judge by real time videos" which i had already addressed around 20 posts ago if they really knew from the start he was qualified to join the brains why losing a lot of time and ostacolating his capture? if they were this aware when he was about to kill akane's friend they would have enabled at least the paralizer, allowing him to get captured while not risking to kill him. but they didn't do that(enabling the paralizer or anything else), so there are the two options: -them being jerks and putting their being jerks above their safety-image-wellbeing -them being unable to judge makishima cause they have no experience about mental reactions like his, and they have no video to base on i'm leaning on the latter, mostly because i don't feel satisfied with justifying anything with "they're jerks and crazy" or to quote the post i replied to you before, why "guys like Makishima are the kind of people qualified to join the brain network"? (which i don't really agree with, since if they had managed to add makishima after that anyone else like him would be no longer asymptomatic) anyway, this would be better to continue in the sibyl thread |
2013-02-16, 12:04 | Link #120 |
Senior Member
Author
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One of the things I find most disturbing about the truth of the Sibyl system is the following: Even if I put aside my "mistreats people for sadistic shits and giggles" concern, there's the fact that we've shifted from an objective mechanical reading (like taking someone's temperature or heart rate) to a subjective human-made assessment (like, say, a pro sports scout assessing a young undrafted player).
Right now, I really, really wonder what even goes into these Psycho-Pass readings. Do each of these brains just make a personal judgement of how "criminally inclined" someone seems to be, and then attach a numerical judgement to that? Because if so, that's frighteningly arbitrary/subjective...
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