Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[Radiosity]

Hmm, well as much as I don't generally like mecha, Planetes was so incredibly awesome that I feel compelled to give this show a chance as well.

So long as it doesn't:

1: Have stupid attack names that the pilots yell out.
2: Have pink explosions.
3: Have some dumbass enemy threat that isn't clearly explained.
4: Generally suck.

Then I'll be happy

[Scribble]

I'm a mecha "virgin", and have yet to stumble across any "pure" mecha series which appeals to me. This looks like it will. =)

[wao]

Originally Posted by Radiosity

Hmm, well as much as I don't generally like mecha, Planetes was so incredibly awesome that I feel compelled to give this show a chance as well.

So long as it doesn't:

1: Have stupid attack names that the pilots yell out.
2: Have pink explosions.
3: Have some dumbass enemy threat that isn't clearly explained.
4: Generally suck.

Then I'll be happy

I sure as heck hope #4 doesn't come true. And hopefully #3 will be well done... but I'm less sure on #1 and #2 ...Especially #2...

I mean hell, Planetes was chock full of real details and was really really awesome for a anime set in space (THERE'S NO SOUND IN SPACE ZOMOOG!) ... but just look at the settings and design of this show, I highly doubt that realism is what it's aiming for

Though I would REALLY love it if they managed to make it a mecha show with some liberties but has so many good details surrounding these that it's very convincing and has its own kind of realism. I hope they play off people's reactions to having large things like that built and the real feeling of things like those walking around the earth... and make the angsty main character (come on, look at him, he's screaming angsty teenager) ... be beliveably angsty.

I suppose it's too much to ask, really, and I'll probably end up being horribly disappointed but it's always nice to entertain the thought. Damn, I wish there was another show like Turn-A GUndam, one of the most truly interesting and creative mecha shows of all time. I don't know how to describe the feeling when you see someone using a Gundam to create a natural swirly-thingy (Sorry I don't remember the term, my geography phails) at the side of a river by sticking its hand into the river-bed and gouging a chunk of earth out.
And then helping to mix soap in and later having the clothes dried on it (it would generate a lot of heat, of course)...

[Radiosity]

Nah, seriously, pink explosions just don't do it for me

Originally Posted by wao

I suppose it's too much to ask, really, and I'll probably end up being horribly disappointed but it's always nice to entertain the thought.

Yeah, it's nice to dream I generally try and keep expectations down so that I'm more pleasantly surprised if something turns out really nicely.

[Nightengale]

It's better not to set any high standards for any anime labelled mecha. As much as an optimist I am for mecha (( I grew up watching them and Kamen Rider )), it's a generally moot point that mecha series, even if they're good don't really go out of the box these days. Turn-A's not that very much different, even if the principle started differently.

Considering this will not come close to being a Supa or Hybrid series, I just hope that it presents some quality human drama. If anything, I hope the premise surrounding the world of the series is well presented.

The anime world needs more series like LoGH.

Originally Posted by Radiosity

So long as it doesn't:

1: Have stupid attack names that the pilots yell out.
2: Have pink explosions.
3: Have some dumbass enemy threat that isn't clearly explained.
4: Generally suck.

Then I'll be happy

1 and 3 cannot co-exist. And if Code Geass doesn't venture out of Earth, then pink explosions won't happen. Generally sucking.....Frankly, even if it doesn't end up good(( I think it's be decently good, keyword = decently )) , I can't see it sucking.

[Lost]

I saw the word PlanetES. I'm gonna add this to my To-watch list.

[solomon]

hmm just saw trailer. I may have been seduced by the high frame rate and FLOW's song, but this looks like one of those series that'll just be a ball to watch like scryed was. I suppose so given the director taniguchi, scryed and what i saw of GunSword was just fun barrel full of monkeys dressed up competently. As long as it doesn't take itself too seriously (and lots of fluid battle action) it should prove to be a blast.

[solomon]

btw, what's this "major producer influnence" phenom?

[MrProphet]

Pink Explosions are a must for a Sunrise mecha series. They are the homage to the original Kidou Senshi Gundam and they have entered the realm of subconscicous anime symbolism a long time ago (along with stuff like angsty protagonist looking at his hand, which is always an homage to EVA today).

btw, what's this "major producer influnence" phenom?

"Producer influence" is the notion of a show catering more to the commercial side of things (like having lots of different mecha to make plastic models off and lots of bishounen for the fangirls to swoon other) rather than the artistic side of things (like a good story and interesting characters).

It doesn't mean that one cannot exist without the other, but for high-profile shows like Code Geass, and especially for high-profile Sunrise shows, producer influence is very high. I am just not sure what Taniguchi will be able to make of it if he is constantly pressured to make it more marketable and sellable.

[solomon]

ah, i thought so. I remember reading in newtype that in Planetes he was able to "Produce in" as a opposed to "Market out". " Produce in" in the sense tha because this was not an otaku-type show airing on public NHK, they were able to do what they wished and not worry about a portion of the commercial side of the work (this is paraphrased from interview). That being so, although scryed was you could say "marketed out" taniguchi's balance of the shows more hot blodded shonen aspects and its more mature social commentary aspects (at least until the last 3rd part with Mujo) was done nicely, to make a real fun show that held up to scruinty reasonably well. The screenwriters for Lelouch look pretty good so heres hoping it strikes that same balance (with better animation).

[solomon]

hmm i wonder how much of that producer influence was in Takeda's other shows (i think Seed counts).

[Kaoru Chujo]

I wonder if being broadcast after one a.m. reduces or increases producer influence? Does it make profit goals lower, or just mean they have to strive harder to reach them?

In any case, as someone who still doesn't get mecha, this wouldn't be on my list if it weren't for the cast and staff people have been talking about: Fukuyama Jun, Yukana, Sakurai Takahiro. w/Koshimizu Ami, Orikasa Fumiko, Nakata Jouji, Nazuka Kaori, Inoue Kikuko, Chiba Saeko, Ohara Sayaka, Arai Satomi (Mahoraba/Kozue). director: Taniguchi Goro (PlanetES, Infinite Ryvius, GunxSword). script: Okouchi Ichirou (PlanetES, Turn A Gundam), Yoshino Hiroyuki (GSD, Mai-Otome).

[solomon]

Depends, according to the late night anime article on wikipedia with certain exceptions (everything on Noitamina for one) late night anime broadcasts are really just an advertisment for hardcore nuts to buy dvds/manga/goods of it afterwards (ratings are miniscule so this is understandable). Anyways, im excited to hear Jun Fukuyama will be in it (he's Lelouch) i think. I haven't seen much by him but he seemed GREAT as xxxHolic's Watanuki. I don't expect him to be nearly as manic thouogh, i expect it to be more serious. Anyone know any big name stuff he was in that im overlooking?

[aardvark]

Originally Posted by solomon

Depends, according to the late night anime article on wikipedia with certain exceptions (everything on Noitamina for one) late night anime broadcasts are really just an advertisment for hardcore nuts to buy dvds/manga/goods of it afterwards (ratings are miniscule so this is understandable). Anyways, im excited to hear Jun Fukuyama will be in it (he's Lelouch) i think. I haven't seen much by him but he seemed GREAT as xxxHolic's Watanuki. I don't expect him to be nearly as manic thouogh, i expect it to be more serious. Anyone know any big name stuff he was in that im overlooking?

He played Albert in Gankutsuou.

[wao]

Geass has been the topic of many conversations about anime broadcasting among some otaku, I think. I mean, to repeat myself, why the hell is a show like this airing at 1 am?...


But well, I guess there are a few factors:

-The relative failure of Blood+
-The very strong competitor it has at 6pm on NHK - Major
-The pressure to do certain things at 6pm versus broadcasting at 1pm

Even then, it seems as if a 1pm timeslot would benefit a more mature-sounding anime like Ayakashi Ayashi. And if they're worried about holding up against Major, then wouldn't Geass be the logical choice since it's even got CLAMP?

Perhaps they're relying heavily on otaku - after all, it's a nationwide broadcast if I'm not wrong so they've got everyone's potential eyeballs - rather than kids and otaku (if it was at 6pm), which is risky because there's the competition of MAJOR. Plus, there aren't any shows with comparable clout airing at 1am on other stations (I'm not very sure of this, I'm just guessing + repeating what I saw somewhere)

But then why go through so much towards getting FLOW and CLAMP and all? Well maybe they figure that the returns would be worth it - and perhaps they want to bring over the "somewhat anime fan" kind of audience... And I guess to make up for the lack of the kid's audience they're going to put more elements in the show that will appeal to otaku, which wouldn't be airable at 6pm.

It could go one way - have a lot of gratituous fanservice or stupid things or tons of obviously and purposely moe characters; or it could provide a more chilling and brutal picture of what's going on in the Geass world, and touch better on issues that are sensitive among the nation such as nationalism.


No point second-guessing the producers, but hey, it's fun...

And I think generally shows that are showed later would have less of the producer's influence - because they're not as pressured as prime-time producers to deal with so many tie-ups and what not - but there are probably exceptions: for example, perhaps popular properties like Kanon and Shuffle... because they probably must make sure that it panders well to otaku/serves as a good advertisement...
And also things like Noitanima (the producer influence is very strong here, but not always a bad thing)

[Sonhex]

This isn't the first time a big new promising show has a bizarre time slot. Eureka 7 with its 7am sunday airtime always baffled me, considering the dark material it covered in some episodes. This airtime didn't seem to affect its mass appeal. Although airtime in Japan is irrevelant to most of the fansub community.

Originally Posted by wao

But then why go through so much towards getting FLOW and CLAMP and all? Well maybe they figure that the returns would be worth it - and perhaps they want to bring over the "somewhat anime fan" kind of audience... And I guess to make up for the lack of the kid's audience they're going to put more elements in the show that will appeal to otaku, which wouldn't be airable at 6pm.

Sunrise might be hoping that the late airtime may attract a more mature audience, or rather an audience expecting more mature content. I guess most people will want fanservice at that time, from the looks of some of the art for Code Geass, looks like they'll get it too (green haired girl in bondage gear for a start). Hopefully the subject matter will be more mature than just T&A - nationalism, like you say, appears to be a theme with all the empirical imagery and subtext. I hope it gets the right mix of politics and action, rather that just being an unsubtle stab at empirical power - domestic or international.

I'm quite hyped after watching the trailer. But it didn't impress me as much as Bakumatsu.

[wao]

Originally Posted by Sonhex

This isn't the first time a big new promising show has a bizarre time slot. Eureka 7 with its 7am sunday airtime always baffled me, considering the dark material it covered in some episodes. This airtime didn't seem to affect its mass appeal. Although airtime in Japan is irrevelant to most of the fansub community.

Coincidentially, that was also produced by Seiji Takeda... and the next big project BONES is doing after that is Ayakashi Ayashi...

Some people said that that was an attempt to create a new 'popular timeslot', but it ended up getting low ratings (though the dvds are selling reasonably well).

Originally Posted by Sonhex

Sunrise might be hoping that the late airtime may attract a more mature audience, or rather an audience expecting more mature content.

Well, I'm just hoping that they'll actually watch it at 2 am... I suppose the weekend airings would be OK, though. I wonder if there's more of a prevailing "late night anime = stuff for weirdos" mindset among people who would have otherwise watched it at 6pm though.

[solomon]

Originally Posted by wao

Coincidentially, that was also produced by Seiji Takeda... and the next big project BONES is doing after that is Ayakashi Ayashi...

Some people said that that was an attempt to create a new 'popular timeslot', but it ended up getting low ratings (though the dvds are selling reasonably well).

i heard that too, but i read that on Tele-Asa, they've had a history of showing shows at 7 in the morning on sunday to higher average numbers for years (3-5%) compared to eureka's static (1-2%) eureka seven i guess didn't get an audience beyond the otaku fanbase. (rated high in mag polls)



[/QUOTE]Well, I'm just hoping that they'll actually watch it at 2 am... I suppose the weekend airings would be OK, though. I wonder if there's more of a prevailing "late night anime = stuff for weirdos" mindset among people who would have otherwise watched it at 6pm though.[/QUOTE]

I don't expect it to approach Noitamina or most of NTV's late night stuff (especially NANA) ratings, just cause it doesn't look like it goes anywhere/does anything that the more "casual" fans would watch it. I hear you basically have 3 categories,
1. totally populist mainstream works (sazae-san, Maruko-chan and Conan)
2. more niche, but casual anime fandom shows (Keroro Gunso, more standard robot shows, popular adventure/shojo manga adaptions)
3. Hard core fandom shows (anything after golden/prime time in the graveyard slot)

There are exceptions; Noitamina/NTV has blurred the line between 2 and 3 a bit from what ive seen but generally these things hold (this is all 3rd party observation from various accounts, interviews articles and websites so while im confident in this knowledge im not a guru, id have to be in japan.

-to finish, i noticed something about the whole doroku furor. MBS and all them say the numbers were higher than then the regual ol' sat6 anime but RAVE, Zoids and one of the millioin ultraman's (which preceeded seed in the timeslot) seemed to get the same numbers to an extent. Only thing i can think of is that theyre snagging higher demos (middle school and up as opposed to the prolly younger kids normally watching at the time, i guess.). Hopefully Aikawa wont feel the need to have to rope in a teenage girl fandom with Ayashi, cause it looks like it could rope in some non-otaku adult viewers as well (from what i read of the synopsis)

[wao]

Well the thing is the last few... alright, the last two big doroku hits, SEED and FMA, were described as being not just guys' anime but being appealing to girls as well (=fangirl factor). Even in other Asian countries there are so many female anime fans who may have otherwise disliked action/mecha anime but loved the human drama that was also present in the two shows. And hey, they're bishie and angsty and there was a lot of delightful stuff going on between Kira and Athrun...
I remember reading reports about how at the events for these shows there was a really significant portion of girls showing up. And about how some who were fans of T.M. Revolution and whatnot would just watch the show and then kind of grow to like it themselves.

And that is why you have something like this

Spoiler for saving space: interview with one of Blood+'s producers, Yutaka Omatsu:

Originally Posted by I.G. website

Q: How about the characters surrounding Saya?



A: I think it's important to make the male characters, Hagi and Kai, attractive and appealing. I attended an event called "Fullmetal Alchemist Festival - Tales of Another" last December and then the big event on July 30th called "MBS Anime Festival 2005 - Osaka Castle Experiment: Midsummer Night's Dream" in Osaka, in which the first footage of Blood+ had its world premiere. The power of high school girls is just unbelievable. It might simply have to do with the time slots in which they're aired [*]. I realized that I just couldn't ignore those girls. In Osaka, characters from Fullmetal Alchemist and Gundam Seed Destiny appearing on stage were enough to make them scream. To be honest, seeing them woke me up. It was a good experience to see the fans' reactions myself. Of course, there are fans that belong to audience demographics that never go to these events.
I feel Blood+ should achieve that kind of success as well. In this time slot, Blood+ is the only anime with a girl as the main character. Some people said that we were taking a big risk. Yes, if we were to target the young girls who watched Fullmetal Alchemist and Gundam Seed Destiny only, then having a girl as the main character might ruin our ratings. But Saya was the main character and we couldn't change that, so we sat down and contemplated this.
And what we came up with was that we had no choice but to make male characters as appealing as possible, but at the same time, such attractive characters must act following a solid dramatization. This may sound quite obvious, but if we succeed in our purpose, then we can be more confident in presenting the show to the entire audience.

From here



I added the red bolded emphasis.
Also I have a feeling the girls he was talking about didn't just include your female otaku/fujoshis...

Which brings me to note that this show seems to be doing a bit of the same thing Just look at angsty Lelouch and Suzaku... and the CLAMP designs cleaned up by Kimura. Maybe I'm wrong but it certainly feels very much like that... (helps that in 2ch threads people are billing it as a fujoshi anime as well)

If Bones is going on the same tack as FMA though, they're probably going to try and make Ayakashi Ayashi appeal to girls as well, though.

[solomon]

hmm, thanks for putting that into perspective. and yea i remember reading that interview with the producer for BLOOD+. That was a part of my beef with it, if FMA could overcome it's shonen limitations and create a fantasticly plotted and crafted show (that relatively little fan pandering at all) with the coincidental nutty fangirl base, then i was almost certain the those ol' boys at IG could/would. It felt like they played it too safe with the material and had to tone it down a few notches. (Some of this is a tad harping to some i know, still a not a bad show, though.) Seed could have too, but B+ is much better then seed (havent seen destiny so no comment on that.

Ayakashi has so many interesting elemens that if left unmangled by the producers it could, just MIGHT rope in a couple of peeps older then the casual doruku viewer base. This would have ensure good ratings cause its a viewing group other then the youths (i assume) watching Major on NHK. PLus in addition to being profitable it could turn out to be a fantastic show to boot.