2009-10-03, 01:36 | Link #2321 | |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
|
Quote:
No, not all questions or reasonings are valid. Before we can start discussing and pondering about x or y philosophical issue, we have first assert the logical validity of our premises. Why is this important you ask? Because if our premises are illogical, our whole reasoning will be shaky, just like a castle whose foundations are weak. This is where this whole fallacy issue comes in. Fallacies and the such are reasonings which have already been demonstrated to be wrong, no matter what form they take. As such, if it is demonstrated that your argument falls under a certain fallacy, it doesn't matter what you try to do, since your foundation is false, everything that directly stems from that foundations crumbles down. Let's put forward one of the most common examples out there. Suppose that someone starts talking in favor of a certain candidate. However, that someone has had certain problems with the law in the past. As such, in order to discredit the candidate and his supporter you start personally attacking this supporter by making public all his dark past, hoping that that will destroy all his credibility. However, this is known as an ad hominem fallacy (against the man fallacy). You are not really attacking the person arguments in favor of the candidate, you are only distracting everyone's attention from the real issue. As such, your whole reasoning, that people shouldn't support that candidate because his supporter is a dubious person falls to the ground, if that is your sole string of reasoning, because it is not logically sound. It is the same case here. You are trying to reason and derive a certain cause by analyzing the consequence. However, as we talked before that is not possible, as per the affirming the consequent fallacy. It is known that if A implies B, this does not mean that we can derive B from A. The important lesson we can learn from here is that if someone says that you are committing a logical fallacy with your arguments, you either have two options. You either demonstrate that you are not committing that logical fallacy, or you have to rethink your arguments in such a way that your arguments are logically sound. [/educational capsule]
__________________
|
|
2009-10-03, 01:45 | Link #2322 | |
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
But this is very irrelevant to the thread, I suggest a revert in discussion. |
|
2009-10-03, 01:49 | Link #2323 | |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
|
Dear Cipher, being able to construct logically sound arguments is the very basis for having any kind of meaningful debate. Otherwise you will go around life making castles in the air, but whatever, I'll rest my point.
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-10-03, 01:53 | Link #2324 | ||
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2009-10-03, 01:55 | Link #2325 | ||
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2009-10-03, 01:58 | Link #2326 | ||
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2009-10-03, 02:02 | Link #2327 |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
|
Going down that route is recycling discussion that has gone on and on in this thread, and I'm not about to enter that endless loop myself. Check what a bajillion other posters have to say in this thread about the evils of religion.
__________________
|
2009-10-03, 02:07 | Link #2328 |
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
The evils of religion versus the benefits of religion. Which do you think is greater? If one is greater than the other, although still having aspects of the opposite, does it not form a sort of 5 - 3 = 2?---which is a positive? or a -5 + 3 = -2? which is a negative?
|
2009-10-03, 02:09 | Link #2329 | ||
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Quote:
False analogy. The positive/negative effects of a particular social phenomenon is not equivalent to a mathematical equation. |
||
2009-10-03, 02:16 | Link #2330 | |
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-10-03, 02:27 | Link #2331 | |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-10-03, 02:43 | Link #2333 | |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
|
Quote:
If morality and social order is impossible without religion, then secular states could not possibly exist. Clearly this is not the case. |
|
2009-10-03, 02:50 | Link #2334 | |
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-10-03, 02:57 | Link #2335 |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
|
The way I see it, religion is a multipurpose tool. I do not deny that it can be used for good. Yet for some reason, it's particularly susceptible to being utilized towards undesirable ends; the Abrahamic religions in particular. Must be the whole 'blind faith' thing.
|
2009-10-03, 02:58 | Link #2336 | |
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
With the Abrahamic religions, I believe its because of its power due to its widespread popularity, is it not? |
|
2009-10-03, 03:03 | Link #2338 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Isn't this conversation steering a little to far afield of the intentions for this thread?
I am still presently an agnostic, but I do sometimes wonder if my agnosticism is due to my apathy and relative enjoyment with life that I find myself a little uncaring of the various relgious doctrines, etc. |
2009-10-03, 03:07 | Link #2339 | |
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
If that's so: I'm obviously a theist who has faith on both this "reality" and a greater "reality" where God exists. I don't know how far we can go with that. |
|
2009-10-03, 03:10 | Link #2340 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
^With a title like "What's Your Religion?" wouldn't that be obvious? Arguing for ones faith is one thing (since that would directly relate to explaining what your relgious beliefs may be), but having a discussion as to the validity of religion or the Socratic method (just to name the recent turns in the conversation) is something else entirely...
|
Tags |
not a debate, philosophy, religion |
|
|