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View Poll Results: Which type of subs do you like the most | |||
Freely translated and good english | 27 | 35.53% | |
most accurate and near to the original | 40 | 52.63% | |
minimalistic ones | 2 | 2.63% | |
I don't care all i understand is fine | 6 | 7.89% | |
is there a way to tell oO | 1 | 1.32% | |
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll |
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2010-03-09, 03:33 | Link #81 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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Tell me where they are, please. Last time I checked I got 2 weeks to sub 2 feature films
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2010-03-09, 13:40 | Link #82 | |||
blinded by blood
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I didn't bother with karaoke effects for the OP/ED theme, but I may try it later for fun. Quote:
Do you just translate scripts, or do you actually do the typesetting and timing, too?
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2010-03-09, 20:56 | Link #83 | |
tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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It's just pointlessly obstructing the video. Viewers aren't going to process what's going on in the margin of the subtitles, so make the margin small, simple as that.
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2010-03-09, 21:16 | Link #84 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Ouch.... my bad. I'd call that a pretty unrealistic time budget for a commercial professional effort. Worse than some fantasies planned by software marketeers.
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2010-03-09, 21:42 | Link #85 | ||||
Twintails are wintails!
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 43
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2010-03-09, 22:38 | Link #86 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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Lately I've been combining the editing pass with the timing one, then do a final watch through for qc unless I have an outside editor in which case it goes to him/her for the second pass. I just added it all up and in the last 15 months I've done about 400 episodes professionally... But that's the pace that's required if you want to actually make a living doing it.
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2010-03-10, 00:35 | Link #87 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Not possible on DVD without using hard subs.
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It wasn't a bad translation. You can see that in the dub script which is based off the same script. It was butchered in editing because of the typesetting problems you noticed. So the order is actually: Typesetting screwed up -> Adjusted editing for that typeset results in poor subtitle quality. |
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2010-03-10, 12:03 | Link #88 | |
tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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I mean, I suppose calling it a bad translation is a little harsh, but localizations aside, a.f.k.'s was honestly ten times better, which is kinda sad considering my friend paid for these DVDs. Some things were not technically incorrect, but really should have been translated differently in context. Like when Mikuru (adult) says she's made a "kanchigai." "Misunderstanding" is technically correct, but she was talking about how she'd gone to the wrong time frame-- in other words, "mistake" would have been more accurate in context. "This is a huge misunderstanding" is actually misleading, when she means, "I've made a huge mistake." Also instead of "anthropic principle" (which a.f.k. got right) they used, what was it? "Human principle" or something. One of the friends I was watching with even pointed out that that was the wrong term. That's simply a matter of doing the five minutes of Google research to find the right English phrase. I mean, these are so-called professional subs, man. I understand DVDs can't do all the pretty stuff substation alpha can do, but this is basic stuff here. Not just translation and formatting, stuff like really lazy timing. If the line is really long and the character pauses for a breath, split the darn line in two! And if there's more than a two second pause between dialogue, turn off the subs! I mean, granted, not all DVD subs I've seen are bad. But I dunno. It's annoying.
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2010-03-10, 15:57 | Link #89 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Raiga, your examples are typical problems and similar to mine... a repeatd "ya know, a few seconds with Google or some basic knowledge and that line could have been much more on point."
I'm not sure what to push for with DVD subtitling mechanics though since it would require redefining the format. Anyone know if Blu-ray subtitling functionality is better?
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2010-03-10, 16:48 | Link #90 |
blinded by blood
Author
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I'd prefer honorifics left out than trying to translate them. Nobody in America calls a person Mr./Mrs. <first name>. It sounds horribly awkward.
If I'm typesetting something, if a character says "Orihara-san" that would unawkwardly translate to Mr. Orihara. But if a character says, "Izaya-san" that doesn't work the same way. Mr. Bob or Mrs. Mary sounds... childish. So if I'm doing subbing work, I'll omit suffixes unless it's necessary. I'll straight across transfer in the case of nicknames (i.e. Ritsu's nickname "Ricchan" in K-ON!) but otherwise, deleted unless the context deems an English honorific wouldn't be awkward.
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2010-03-10, 21:55 | Link #91 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Script(raw) was then edited by the ADR director for the dub to produce script(dub), the script that was used to make the dub. This script is fine beside some minor nitpicks you can make. Script(raw) is timed and typeset (and edited?) and whatever to produce script(sub). Up to here, all was normal, it is at this point things went wrong: Script(sub) went through editing (again?) due to issues that resulted from the typesetting. The resulting final subtitle script here is the one that so many people have issues with such as "futuremen". |
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2010-03-12, 01:33 | Link #97 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 42
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I went with "freely translated and good English," which is not completely exclusive with "accurate and close to the original." It's quite possible to honorifics, Eastern name order, Japanese-specific food and cultural terms, and many other distinctive "flavorings" within a subtitle script that presents a natural and enjoyable English reading experience. As others have said, the key is to avoid sounding awkward or stupid in English. Most of the time, this can be accomplished without losing any meaning. Take the line, "Yomitakatta... Toujou no shosetsu."
Some literal translations would render this as "I wanted to read it... Toujou's novel", even though "I wanted to read Toujou's novel" doesn't lose any meaning. Or "That character, why haven't you discarded it yet?" (from some .hack//SIGN fansub) could just as easily be "Why haven't you discarded that character yet?" I don't care if honorifics are included or not, since I can discern them from the audio if they're not in the subs. Same with name order. I will say that doing [Family name in audio] -> [Given name in subs] is an unnecessary degree of localization, though. Most R1DVDs haven't done it for years, aside from some outliers like Viz's Honey & Clover. But Viz has always been incompetent, so no surprise there. Millions of English speakers, young and old, have managed to comprehend and enjoy seven rather popular books full of kids calling each other Potter, Malfoy, Granger, Weasely, Goyle, Longbottom, etc. So it's not like "addressing by surname = more distant/formal relationship" is that foreign of a concept. Aside from obsessive syntax adherence, my main tip-off of annoyingly literal subs is a refusal to substitute or add "you" instead of <Name> where it would be natural and appropriate in English. Yes, I get that Japanese speakers don't use 2nd-person pronouns as much as English speakers. But strict adherence to [name in audio] -> [name in subs] makes conversations needlessly confusing and awkward. Quote:
--Line1 --Line2 But others like ADV and Nozomi use yellow for main subs and white for overlapping subs. Green shows up here and there on some Bang Zoom, New Generation Pictures, and Ocean Group-produced DVDs. Quote:
What it comes down to is that nobody at Kadokawa/Bandai/BZ ever said, "Gee, this is a really talky show that uses a lot of big words. Maybe we'd better use slightly smaller yet still DVD-acceptable subtitles for this one." The problem isn't DVD format limitations, it's inflexibility and uncreativity even within the bounds of those standards. Quote:
1) Subtitles set too low will get cut off by overscan on old CRT TVs. Yeah, not so many people have CRTs anymore. But screwing over the less fortunate for one's own convenience is just plain selfish. 2) Subtitles set too low force the viewer to constantly bounce their eyes down and up between the subtitles and the main action areas of the image, thus increasing the chance that they'll miss out on something. Same goes for horizontal margins -- long single lines of text that span the entire width of the screen should be broken up into two shorter lines in the center of the screen. This allows viewers to read them faster with minimal side-to-side eye scanning movement. Most DVDs follow this principle, most fansubs do not. Yes, some DVDs take margins too far, but there needs to be a middle ground. Quote:
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2010-03-12, 12:40 | Link #99 |
Gregory House
IT Support
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"Most accurate and near to the original" is such an oxymoron to a professional translator it's not even funny.
But then again, given the audience of the average fansub it might not be that bad. Footnotes should die in a fire though, there are so many ways to avoid them and yet so many fansubbers abuse them...
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2010-03-12, 19:29 | Link #100 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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