Lucky Star - Episode 05 Discussion / Poll

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

Thank you Sheba! My sentiments exactly. This anime series has NEVER taken itself seriously, and yet everyone here is trying to find something to find every petty fault this series has. I understand that everyone has an opinion, but jeez, it's only karaoke. Who cares if they're "out of character"? =/

It's just discussion, and I happen to care if somebody is out of character because it shouldn't happen even in a comedy series. I think it's kind of silly to suggest that one shouldn't care if one of the major characters suddenly becomes somebody else entirely and that it bears discussion if it happens as to why it happened. Also faults make for interesting discussion, they shouldn't just be overlooked if they are there. For example people discussed the hell out of the Gurren Lagann Debacle and the Director Swap for Lucky Star, and what he might have done wrong to cause it too happen. We're just doing the same for this situation.

[Vexx]

I find that characterization of the discussion misleading, particularly the "everyone" and the "every petty fault" part. This is a series that all the posters pretty clearly enjoy. I consider these threads as a kind of "literary analysis book club" equivalent for discussing anime and manga. There are going to be differences of opinion and trading thoughts should help to modulate one's own ideas.

I spend most of the time defending or being excited about the series Lucky*Star and this is the one of the few pieces I'm less comfortable about. Most of the counterpoints to my feeling on the subject have been articulate and well-thought out (nods to Kaoru, Willen, etc). I think we're having a pleasant time discussing it.

I've actually read the manga and this adaptation has really done a pretty excellent job of transferring the feel of the series and the character personalities... so I'd say KyoAni seems to care if they're "out of character" since they worked so hard on it.

I'll bite though... what are we *supposed* to talk about in these threads?

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

Thank you Sheba! My sentiments exactly. This anime series has NEVER taken itself seriously, and yet everyone here is trying to find something to find every petty fault this series has. I understand that everyone has an opinion, but jeez, it's only karaoke. Who cares if they're "out of character"? =/

I think it's a pretty legit thing to talk about - it matters to a lot of fans if they're "out of character" (and a few other things we're talking about right now, too). It matters to me... it's just that in cases like these, I like to play more of a lurker role and see what everyone else thinks in order to help me with my own thoughts and opinions. Sometimes, I end up doing a full 180 and completely changing my mind about things. *shrugs* I think it's good to have discussions like these... Now I'll back out and let the convo continue.

[Ffenix Rising]

The director swap is a more interesting discussion. Discussing whether or not Konata should sing her best or out of tune in karaoke is, quite frankly, a waste of time.

Has anyone ever been in a karaoke box? I mean, there are times when I want to goof around and sing really stupid songs off key, but there are also times when there's a song I like, I want to sing it to the best of my abilities. Kona-chan IS a weird otaku girl, but she's not one-dimensional, (or the very least, there's still 19 episodes left to show her other dimensions). I have friends who are complete goofballs, and yet surprises me when they can do something very well.

Is it really not within the realm of possibility that maybe, just maybe, Kona-chan can sing (*gasp*) if she really wants to?

Anyway, that's my ~2 yen in this karaoke "controversy."

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

The director swap is a more interesting discussion. Discussing whether or not Hirano should sing her best or out of tune in karaoke is, quite frankly, a waste of time.

Ah.. that's totally a matter of opinion. I find this karaoke discussion more interesting. I personally couldn't care less about the director change...

[Ffenix Rising]

Originally Posted by Risaa

Ah.. that's totally a matter of opinion. I find this karaoke discussion more interesting. I personally couldn't care less about the director change...

The problem is that the karaoke discussion is more of a complaint-fest than an actual discussion. It's only 5 episodes so far and yet people seem to know every facet of the characters faults, motivations and behavior.

So just because in only 3 episodes, when Kona starts to sing better than the first two songs, all of a sudden she's out of character? Does anyone even think, this is also part of her character as well?

(sigh...)

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

The director swap is a more interesting discussion. Discussing whether or not Hirano should sing her best or out of tune in karaoke is, quite frankly, a waste of time.

Has anyone ever been in a karaoke box? I mean, there are times when I want to goof around and sing really stupid songs off key, but there are also times when there's a song I like, I want to sing it to the best of my abilities. Kona-chan IS a weird otaku girl, but she's not one-dimensional, (or the very least, there's still 19 episodes left to show her other dimensions). I have friends who are complete goofballs, and yet surprises me when they can do something very well.

Is it really not within the realm of possibility that maybe, just maybe, Kona-chan can sing (*gasp*) if she really wants to?

Anyway, that's my ~2 yen in this karaoke "controversy."

You seem to flip flop between saying Konata is singing and Aya Hirano is singing and that's exactly where the confusion lies. This is what episode 3 versus episode 5 has brought to the forefront, who really is doing the singing, was it supposed to be Aya Hirano (Who it sounds more like in episode 3) doing the singing in episode 3 or was it Konata. Likewise was it Konata doing the singing in episode 5 (It sounds like Konata) or was it Aya Hirano. You've basically created your own interesting question to talk about. See how easy it is.

[Ffenix Rising]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

You seem to flip flop between saying Konata is singing and Aya Hirano is singing and that's exactly where the confusion lies. This is what episode 3 versus episode 5 has brought to the forefront, who really is doing the singing, was it supposed to be Aya Hirano (Who it sounds more like in episode 3) doing the singing in episode 3 or was it Konata. Likewise was it Konata doing the singing in episode 5 (It sounds like Konata) or was it Aya Hirano. You've basically created your own interesting question to talk about. See how easy it is.

I was typing in a stream of consciousness... replace Hirano with Konata.

[Kouvley]

Originally Posted by krln99

I think they're all doing it in character as far as HS kids at karaoke goes. I dunno how to put this but some songs you can totally f**k around on and sound all off tune, and no one will really give a damn. In fact, it's probably better you don't take them seriously. The first 2 and HEAD CHA LA are such songs.

Agreed. (from personal experience )

I think what Kyoani is trying to do here is to portray a realistic karaoke session where people will mess about on certain songs then sing others properly.

In fact I think it's entirely in Konata's character to suddenly sing "properly" to make her friends go O_o?!?

[Risaa]

First of all... it's not nice to make it sound as if you're talking down to us (whether you really intended to or not, it did come across that way), and it's certainly not nice to make this karaoke controversy sound like it has an obvious, black-and-white answer when clearly there are so many people who disagree and have pretty good reasons for disagreeing (I think both sides have good reasons, really). Your opinion could've been said in a nicer tone, don't you think?

For the record... I still dislike the karaoke bit in episode three because it was inconsistent with the first two... It sounded (to me, anyways) that Kona was really into the songs, trying her best and putting a lot of emotion into the first two. Then in the third karaoke bit, it really sounded as if Hirano was singing, total switch from Kona's all powerful, enthusiastic singing in the first two... I mean, it's certainly possible that Kona was really just messing around, and then got serious in the third song, but *shrugs* whatever. It's all just a matter of opinion in the end ne?

It's not enough to make me dislike the episode by any means - it's just a small gripe I share with a few others here.

[Boukenxha]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

Is it really not within the realm of possibility that maybe, just maybe, Kona-chan can sing (*gasp*) if she really wants to?

I agree.

Btw, I believe there's a reason why she was shouting at the end of Cha-la Head-Cha-la. I don't think I can explain it well since I'm not a vocal teacher or anything, so people with the correct field of expertise correct me if I'm anywhere wrong.

The chorus part is actually out of her comfortable vocal range because it has too many high notes which she can't reach, this has to do with the key which the song was written in. To fit into her vocal range, the music has to be transposed to a different key, but that is impossible because this is karaoke and not a live band. She can choose to sing the chorus off-key but that will sound really weird. Instead, she chose to force the higher pitch by shouting the lyrics out.

Honestly, I never thought the song will sound like that untill I heard it. I think it wasn't that bad as she displayed the spirit of the song through all that shouting. Yeah it seems she managed to sing it thanks to the "ai" she puts into that song, but her vocals must have hurt after that. I can't imagine her singing the full song in the OST though.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

The problem is that the karaoke discussion is more of a complaint-fest than an actual discussion. It's only 5 episodes so far and yet people seem to know every facet of the characters faults, motivations and behavior.

So just because in only 3 episodes, when Kona starts to sing better than the first two songs, all of a sudden she's out of character? Does anyone even think, this is also part of her character as well?

(sigh...)

Perhaps its because some of us have read the manga? No one is arguing that it is impossible for her to sing well... just that it doesn't match up with previous observations of her character's behavior. So its surprising or unexpected... Manatsu and Kouvley's post is an example of why it might be in-character rather than out-of-character, so I'll take those idea bits (as well as the others) and incorporate it into my assessment. Without that discussion, I'd be totally maintaining my initial opinion so I have concur with Risaa about the merits of any discussion (especially since watching any entertainment is a "waste of time" technically). I guess I just think labeling what was a polite discussion about the way a character is being portrayed a "complaint-fest" to be kind of rude, eh?

[Ffenix Rising]

Originally Posted by Risaa

First of all... it's not nice to make it sound as if you're talking down to us (whether you really intended to or not, it did come across that way), and it's certainly not nice to make this karaoke controversy sound like it has an obvious, black-and-white answer when clearly there are so many people who disagree and have pretty good reasons for disagreeing (I think both sides have good reasons, really). Your opinion could've been said in a nicer tone, don't you think?

I apologize for my rude and very forward behavior.

To put everything what I've said in the most neutral tone possible: Don't always try to have a negative point-of-view in a topic or situation, which in this case is the karaoke ending sequences. Have some perspective in the matter. At the end of the day, it is still only karaoke.

[Kaioshin Sama]

In the context of it possibly being part of the character, the voice was just so different in episode 3 that the only way we are able to know it is in supposed to Konata is because we can here the other characters referring to her as the singer. Though to me sounds exactly as if it were Aya Hirano singing in her own voice, not the Konata voice we've had. Konata just does not sound like what we heard in episode 3. Maybe its just to difficult to do the proper singing in Konata's voice as when we heard Haruhi sang in the one episode her voice completely morphed into another persons too. If it felt like it were Konata in any way it would have been far more convincing as a possible hidden character trait.

At this point though, I'm guessing it was just a treat for Aya Hirano fans yet again, because when I see that door in episode 3 I don't picture Konata and Co. back there, I picture Aya Hirano and the other voice actors, but in all other episodes I see the door and Konata and co. are behind it in my minds eye.

[Vexx]

I apologize for getting so annoyed, but think my post history shows I don't always have a negative view about this (or other) series... in fact, I'm a pretty strong defender of this show I went into Gurren-Lagann expecting to hate it and its turned into an overall enjoyable experience. No anime series (or any other thing) is perfect: budget, talent, and marketing all apply pressures that improve or dilute the product. There's nothing wrong in recognizing what one considers faults as well as positives. I can adore something while recognizing the flaws.

I'm rather interested in hearing how and what sort of songs Tsukasa and Miyuki sing (e.g., will they be anime tunes or some traditional children's song? Or will Tsukasa innocently pick some really slutty song and have no clue about the meaning?)

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

still only karaoke.

that have been made into a Serious Business. >=P

[Ffenix Rising]

Originally Posted by Sheba

that have been made into a Serious Business. >=P

Hahaha, some memes never die.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Vexx

...I guess we've come to the idea that the original director is still going to be around for the creative function ... he's just getting an administrative senpai to help him stay on track with the managerial items??? Is that the probable situation?

That's what I hope, but I'm really not sure now that I've seen he was not involved at all in ep5 or 6 (credits posted on the net). I'll be watching for his name to reappear as an episode director. There are still many possibilities, it seems to me: administrative help; banishment for offending bigwigs or other companies; punishment for being disorganized and going over budget, etc.

[Ffenix Rising]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

There are still many possibilities, it seems to me: administrative help; banishment for offending bigwigs or other companies; punishment for being disorganized and going over budget, etc.

Or could be a big joke on the fandom, a la the scene with Konata posting a complaint about Ya****** in 2ch. I wouldn't be surprised either way; Kyoto Animation has always used more than 5 directors throughout the life of an anime series (e.g. Haruhi used 9 episode directors!), and it seems that Lucky Star won't break that convention.

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

To put everything what I've said in the most neutral tone possible: Don't always try to have a negative point-of-view in a topic or situation, which in this case is the karaoke ending sequences. Have some perspective in the matter.

Aha no worries. I'm sorry I got a bit snappy. Though, I do agree with what you said right here, so I try to have a neutral POV (though admittedly I tend to have a positive, totally optimistic view on my shows ). Don't take what I said to mean that I dislike Lucky*Star; it's already on my favorites list. (It's battling ARIA for X place at the moment...)

Originally Posted by Vexx

There's nothing wrong in recognizing what one considers faults as well as positives. I can adore something while recognizing the flaws.

Hmm, I think that can be said for many things in life, especially other people.

Originally Posted by Vexx-san

I'm rather interested in hearing how and what sort of songs Tsukasa and Miyuki sing (e.g., will they be anime tunes or some traditional children's song? Or will Tsukasa innocently pick some really slutty song and have no clue about the meaning?)

Aah, definitely! I'm actually hoping Miyuki will sing a bit terribly.. funny as it is, I think it'd up her moe factor. Maybe Tsukasa will have a surprisingly low voice... :P