2014-04-24, 04:18 | Link #4481 |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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I don't believe that, I was just arguing against your misuse of the word "scale". I thought that it undermined your point, which I otherwise agree with. Nukes are very powerful bombs, and you shouldn't dismiss the power of... scale. Honestly I feel like you don't understand how much energy we're talking here. Scaling things up is inherently impressive.
Also, I seriously don't care what happens to my atoms if I'm dead anyway. |
2014-04-24, 04:35 | Link #4482 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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And true, you, puny human, wouldn't care much about what happens to your atoms. But here we're talking about people who can survive bullets and small explosions thanks to inner energy, so I think that example helps to show that you can be able to do that and still be overwhelmed by a nuke . Speaking of which, I think the fact that the nuke is actually portrayed as more powerful than Hyakushiki Zero is consistent. Zero was, literally, the full extent of Netero's aura in one blast. Netero was able to pack punches which would more or less be equivalent to cannon shots most likely. The sum of all the punches he could ever throw amounts to that huge beam of light that was probably like multiple conventional bombs fired at once. Compare this with Dragonball Z, where people could survive shots able to destroy planets (I've just described what the energy of a nuke looks like. Now just think that destroying a planet would take SEVERAL MILLIONS OF BILLIONS TIMES that much energy) and yet could damage each other with punches that didn't do much beyond creating supersonic shockwaves. That's ludicrous - to scratch someone who could withstand that kind of power, a punch would probably have to be energetic enough to ignite nuclear fusion in the surrounding air. Try reading this on a similar topic, it's quite illuminating: https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/ DBZ is awesome, but its energy scales are all wrong . But Togashi seems to have done his homework, instead.
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2014-04-24, 05:00 | Link #4483 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
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Look at what it did for Gon. The card managed to heal and replace his damaged throat, eye and demolished left hand (the entire fist!). Bomber's friends were injured enough to require the card's powers to survive rather than being able to wait for regular medical attention. You would think that such a high level of healing would have been prevalent in other parts of the world in some form or other, especially considering those crippled hunters in the Heavens Arena arc (who would have seeked out such treatments if it were available). Even Pitou's healing abilities via Doctor Blythe required a lot of time, effort and concentration to pull off (even on a human) yet the archangel card healed the targets nearly instantly, while being re-creatable with a clone card. The Greed Island arc was also the only arc where characters (mainly Gon) suffered such a crazy extend of damage/wounds from their battles - I am doubtful on whether this would have been the case if Togashi decided to not include that powerful card in the arc. If Greed Island was on another plane of existence create via Nen abilities rather than an actual location in the real world, you could at least explain its ridiculous powers with the game world operating on its own rules, and that the players were actually not taking any damage with the real bodies but with the game-world representation. You could still link their game-world death to a real death that way. Last edited by Eclipze; 2014-04-24 at 05:20. |
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2014-04-24, 05:31 | Link #4484 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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1) it could exist only within the space of Greed Island 2) it needed to be used in the specific way that all cards were used (namely, keep it in the book, then call it out etc.), which is a restriction that applies to all cards, as well as them being "gained" automatically after a certain time if they weren't kept in a slot. But most importantly, 3) it could exist at any given time in only two copies, and 4) it could only be obtained through the rather hard process of gathering all the magic cards. So that's quite hard. If you want to use Archangel's breath in real life you need to add 5) you need to WIN the whole Greed Island game. And this can probably only done once. So in other words, it's a miracle that you can bring in this world only at the price of months and months of continued efforts and of risking your life for it. Consider how many people died trying to complete GI. Even if one Archangel's Breath was taken out of it, overall more lives would have been snuffed out than saved by this "miracle". That's WAY more restricting that anything applying to Dr. Blithe, that has the same powers, only slower and requires the user to stay still.
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2014-04-24, 06:04 | Link #4485 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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^All that. And don't forget the part that the entire game construct that even makes the cards possible was designed, created and maintained by 12 skilled nen users working together.
The fact that Greed Island is a real world location does very little to mitigate plausibility. (in fact, I have yet to see a nen user who can actually create a virtual space where the (base) laws of physics don't apply) Unless you for some reason continue to ignore every single restriction and limitation that made it possible. |
2014-04-24, 06:30 | Link #4486 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
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Also, if the creators were able to create an elaborate game like Greed Island with such powerful card effects, what is stopping other hunters with similar powers/abilities and skill levels from creating a similar environment but created with more loopholes instead? Restrict the use of the abilities to a building (hospital), apply all the things you've listed, but change the objective of the game to suit the intended purpose. Quote:
Again, the rules won't matter as much if it is simply something decided upon by the "developers". Its not like there aren't any similarly capable Nen users comparable to the twelve that worked on GI. |
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2014-04-24, 06:39 | Link #4487 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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2014-04-24, 06:43 | Link #4488 | |||||
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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As an amateur programmer, I prefer to look at Nen as a programmable development environment with a fixed library. And a machine of very limited capacity to write your programming on. If you want to make your finished product look better or work faster, you have to completely understand the library's functions and know how to exploit them into doing what you want while wasting as little processing power as possible. Last edited by Dengar; 2014-04-24 at 07:02. |
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2014-04-24, 07:31 | Link #4489 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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2014-04-24, 08:50 | Link #4490 | ||
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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(NOTE: this is assuming that they can withstand a bullet, grenade, etc. Up until this point I thought they could, but now it's up in the air. That the significance of the nuke to me. It opens the floodgate of possibilities that a group of elite nen users would probably be defeated by a large, well trained, and well equipped modern army.) Quote:
As you've all probably surmised, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to physics, but is what you're saying really true? I know the KT impact that wiped out the dinosaurs was astronomically stronger than any nuclear weapon... and it was, in many ways, simply a MASSIVE rock, being thrown extremely strongly by gravity. Last edited by ChainLegacy; 2014-04-24 at 09:32. |
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2014-04-24, 09:03 | Link #4491 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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A well-trained, equipped modern army could totally kill a group of elite nen-users if the group of elite nen users are dumb enough to do a frontal assault. Keep in mind, Uboguin was crazy strong in part because he was all but immune to guns, snipers/etc. OTOH, even he was hurt by a bazooka. Not significantly damaged, but hurt. OTOH, he wasn't hurt by a better-than-average trying to pierce him with a nen-imbued sword. So Bazooka > nen-imbued sword by slightly better than average nen-users. |
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2014-04-24, 09:28 | Link #4492 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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With this in mind, the only way nen users could survive against a powerful modern army would be guerrilla warfare and, even then, they would eventually be put down completely by a determined army. To me, this saps the great significance they seemed to have earlier in the show. It also proves the ants could probably have been defeated by a military force, too. |
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2014-04-24, 10:01 | Link #4493 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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They can go by boat. The Spiders were on the island several seconds before Razor kicked them out. That time could probably be extended by a skilled player distracting him. |
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2014-04-24, 10:34 | Link #4494 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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1) is where the dinosaur impact was even stronger. A "rock" kilometers wide that falls from the height of space isn't to be trifled with. In this sense, it's possible that at its landing that "rock" caused temperatures of the same order of those of a nuclear explosion, simply because all the energy of its fall was released. However it's also important to remember that a nuclear weapon has a much higher energy DENSITY, that is, it releases its energy in a much more concentrated form, because it's much smaller than an asteroid. Therefore while the asteroid was more destructive for the planet overall, the bomb could be more destructive for the one single thing it happens to hit. 2) is very specific to atomic bombs though, but definitely isn't crucial to their destructive power, just a nasty side effect. As to why energy scale is important, well, nothing is indestructible. A suit of armour is better than bare flesh because it resists to a higher amount of energy applied before it breaks (a sword cuts flesh but not armour). A kevlar jacket will be even better against concentrated attacks like bullets, but can't do anything against a missile, and so on. So Nen protection could work against missiles but not be enough against a nuke - that's perfectly consistent. And "my kung fu is stronger than yours" is a generic catchphrase used to indicate all those situations in shonen anime where "power levels" are the only things determining the outcome of a fight, the kind of way Dragonball fights are solved for example. He only meant to say that in HXH tactics are also part of the game and being stronger than the opponent doesn't mean being automatically invincible. It's a TVTropes thing: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ongerThanYours
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2014-04-24, 10:56 | Link #4495 | |||
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Things that can No Sell a missile exist on this planet. Things that can No Sell a nuke, well, don't. Quote:
Oh, and have you forgotten that the journey to the island is extremely perilous and is not something a terminally ill patient should be doing? Quote:
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2014-04-24, 11:46 | Link #4496 | |||
Part-time Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: First star to the left, you should go there sometime.
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Also, anyone have an idea as to how fast Bodhavistta's hand strikes are too? Thanks for mentioning this, and you too Dengar. |
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2014-04-24, 12:30 | Link #4497 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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Speaking of Zero cannon looking like it was about to release a supernova... it jumped to my mind that the reason why we saw "the universe" in the Bodhistattva's mouth might be a reference to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasoda "Upon this request it is said that Krishna opens his mouth in front of Yashoda who sees the Seven Oceans, the entire Universe with its vast expanse and also Narayana seated upon Adishesha (The Divine Snake)..." It's hinduism but Buddhism has roots in India, so it might have been deliberate.
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2014-04-24, 13:28 | Link #4498 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm not saying intruders can stay indefinitely. Maybe they can't stay a full minute, but who cares? All they need is a player with Archangel's Breath waiting for them when they land and a few seconds. Quote:
(Unless AB only works for players. It's possible, too.) |
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2014-04-24, 13:55 | Link #4499 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Okay, fine, you win this round. If that exact sequence were to happen, then maybe it would be possible to pull it off. Are you planning to make an industry out of this? That seems rather hard to pull off. Not to mention that it would still require someone to actually obtain Archangel's Breath.
So even when you're breaking some rules of the game, you're not actually breaking the rules that allow Archangel's Breath to exist. Nor does it seem likely that you'd be able to turn this into an industry. |
2014-04-24, 14:37 | Link #4500 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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action, shounen |
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