(CR) Hunter X Hunter Anime (2011)

[Kanon]

If an adaptation has ever done justice to a shounen manga, it's this one. I would even say it transcends the original material.

I loved the conclusion of the fight. That the "big bad" would be taken out by a nuclear bomb, one of the worst invention of humanity, is quite unexpected to say the least. We witnessed a clash between two individuals that represented the pinnacle of their respective species, and how did the human win against the ant? Thanks to his malice. The ants will never be able to match humanity's bottomless malice. Quite a message Togashi is sending...

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

The cellphones as a whole have been better than our own, you realize?

Better autonomy, certainly.

The same for their internet,

Not really. Funny interface, but we haven't seen anything that screams "better".

and Zeppelin is a cultural difference, not tech being 'lesser'.

They're older than jets.

Because Netero wanted to have a bit of fun before dying.

So why did he have to die again? The important thing was to have the king and bomb in the same general vicinity at the time of detonation. Knov could have done it on his own.

As for the rest, they were all about baiting the Royal Guards, which makes total sense. The royal guards winning the fights was always part of the plan.

But why not blow them up at the same time?

...Because both of those countries had next to no countact with the outside. They can cover up a lot of people dying, but they can't cover up a nuke being used in the center of a government.

So? Lie. Make up some acceptable story for why the palace was nuked and it's a horrible tragedy and a terrible crime but fortunately all the culprits are dead. Sleep tight, citizens.


It's not a terrible way out. But let's be frank: if anybody but Togashi had done it, everyone here would be shouting "bullshit!" instead of "genius!". Especially since so far, nen masters had been laughing at our puny weapons (remember Spiders vs mafia?). But suddenly technology matters? Engineering triumphs over magical martial arts?

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's not a terrible way out. But let's be frank: if anybody but Togashi had done it, everyone here would be shouting "bullshit!" instead of "genius!".

First, lets just get out of the way that it's very condescending to portray the fans as being so shallow. I mean you're implying that a fan thinks something or someone is awesome because they are a fan. Don't you realise that that's completely backwards reasoning?

Second, apparently it didn't occur to you is that the reason we consider Togashi a genius is exactly because he's pretty much the only one who pulls shit like this. I mean come on, solving a problem that cannot be solved through good ol' fisticuffs by using a plain old nuke? He pretty much subverts every notion that nukes are big flashy things that hardly deal any damage to our villain of the week. For once, the nuke is actually the terribly destructive weapon that it's supposed to be.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Dengar

First, lets just get out of the way that it's very condescending to portray the fans as being so shallow. I mean you're implying that a fan thinks something or someone is awesome because they are a fan. Don't you realise that that's completely backwards reasoning?

Second, apparently it didn't occur to you is that the reason we consider Togashi a genius is exactly because he's pretty much the only one who pulls shit like this. I mean come on, solving a problem that cannot be solved through good ol' fisticuffs by using a plain old nuke? He pretty much subverts every notion that nukes are big flashy things that hardly deal any damage to our villain of the week. For once, the nuke is actually the terribly destructive weapon that it's supposed to be.

Tying back to the Phantom Troupe thing: it was said at some point that "Uvo's objective was to make his punch as powerful as a nuclear warhead". In other words, a nuclear explosion represented for him the absolute pinnacle (maybe an unobtainable one) he could dream to push his own Nen power to. So it was: A) already established that nuclear weapons DO exist in the HXHverse and B) already established that they are more powerful than even very strong Nen users.

About technology being backwards, I'd say it's rather different. For example, in our world zeppelins received a huge blow after the whole Hindenburg incident. If nothing like that had happened and if, for example, helium was cheaper and more readily available than it is, zeppelins could maybe be a better form of transport than planes. Geography of the world and availability of other resources, such as fuel, also factors in. Plus my general impression is that the HXH world generally has an even wider rich/poor divide than our own. In other words, it's an overall poor world where a few very rich people are the only one able to access high level technology. As for the Miniature Rose, the difficulty of crafting atom bombs IRL comes from lots of technical difficulties about, for example, finding and enriching uranium. The basic principle itself is quite straightforward: just put together a mass > critical mass of fissile material and it'll go kaboom. If the existing elements had slightly different properties you could well imagine a way to build an atomic bomb that could be hidden in a person's body.

[MCAL]

@vi3tboizz

You're MrAM from Myanimelist, aren't you? Always liked your posts and its nice that you'd share them with the animesuki community. Keep up the good work. Truly this is what makes the Chimera Ant arc one of the best and most morally complex arcs in Shounen history.

[Gan_HOPE326]

After a bit of research:

ok, this is just a curiosity and I don't really think Togashi did anything like going this far into speculation. But I think it's a nice example of how slightly different conditions can give rise to wildly changing result.

Americium-242 is an element that does not exist in nature on our planet - the heaviest existing one is Uranium-238. However it is thinkable that a planet born out of a supernova cloud from a slightly more massive star than the one that generated our solar system might contain higher amounts of Americium. It has a very, VERY short half-life (141 years) but if there was enough to begin with, then maybe it could still be around. On Earth, Americium-242 is very expensive. But a planet with huge deposits of Am-242 would have:

1) very cheap helium (ideal for zeppelins), as Am-242 naturally decays with release of alpha particles that become helium gas and form underground reserves, and
2) very cheap, portable nuclear weapons, as the critical mass of Am-242 can be brought down to a mere 3-5 kg.

So there you go .

[Clarste]

Back in the early 20th century, airships were actually considered more advanced than planes, because they could carry more weight and were therefore more practical for carrying cargo, passengers, or weapons. Planes were a gimmicky toy while zeppelins were the future. Obviously that changed later, but it wasn't obvious at a glance which would be more successful, and they were both invented at roughly the same time.

[Dengar]

I do believe that airships have benefits that planes don't.

Most notably, airships require a much smaller landing site. And one could even conceivably build specialized suspended docks, so that they would take up airspace, rather than groundspace.

[NorthernFallout]

A nuke.

I did not see it coming. It was ****ing glorious. Not to mention the faces beforehand.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dengar

First, lets just get out of the way that it's very condescending to portray the fans as being so shallow. I mean you're implying that a fan thinks something or someone is awesome because they are a fan. Don't you realise that that's completely backwards reasoning?

I don't know why, in this particular instance, fans are so admiring. I suspect that it's simple loyalty. He came by his fans fair and square, but here?

And I have seen anime fans go rabid for lesser surprises than "I had a nuke all along".

Second, apparently it didn't occur to you is that the reason we consider Togashi a genius is exactly because he's pretty much the only one who pulls shit like this. I mean come on, solving a problem that cannot be solved through good ol' fisticuffs by using a plain old nuke? He pretty much subverts every notion that nukes are big flashy things that hardly deal any damage to our villain of the week. For once, the nuke is actually the terribly destructive weapon that it's supposed to be.

Indiana Jones famously gunned down someone he didn't want to fight with a sword. And, I don't remember clearly, but wasn't Infinite Stratos chokefull of "oh no, we have a problem! But worry not, my armor has a new feature that'll really help!"

The fact that this time, it's a nuke changes nothing. It just raises more questions.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Better autonomy, certainly.


Not really. Funny interface, but we haven't seen anything that screams "better".

We have seen back in YSC that their phone already had internet and direct ban account monitoring, at the very least. That's not "less tech".

They're older than jets.

They are not older than planes, and we have no way to know how they improved their Zeppelin farther.

So why did he have to die again? The important thing was to have the king and bomb in the same general vicinity at the time of detonation. Knov could have done it on his own.

He had to die because the bomb's illegal and there is a price to pay for using it. Netero accepted responsibility for using it.

It's not a terrible way out. But let's be frank: if anybody but Togashi had done it, everyone here would be shouting "bullshit!" instead of "genius!". Especially since so far, nen masters had been laughing at our puny weapons (remember Spiders vs mafia?). But suddenly technology matters? Engineering triumphs over magical martial arts?

As said, Uboguin's whole dream was for his Big Bang Impact to be Nuke-worthy, and he was currently 'only' at the power of a missile.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't know why, in this particular instance, fans are so admiring. I suspect that it's simple loyalty. He came by his fans fair and square, but here?

And I have seen anime fans go rabid for lesser surprises than "I had a nuke all along".

A lot of anime fans tend to freak out over inconsequential things. Nonetheless, I do not see how this is in any way comparable to a deus ex machina when

1. Nukes are established in the universe already, as well as various other forms of technology

2. It was foreshadowed by the grounds being a nuclear testing ground

3. The big wigs vocally made Netero a scape goat

4. Knov mentioned that they already won just by bringing him away from the palace with such certainty

Not to mention the thematic importance of that moment that encapsulated so many of the terrifying aspects of the chimera ant story. No matter what, they could not match humanity's propensity for malice and destruction. The nuke blowing Mereum up is as terrible as it is poetic.

People are not giving Togashi a free pass here. Only he in the shonen world is able to weave such a complex story with a deftly executed twist that made sense not just at face value, but also thematically.I think it deserves quite a bit of praise.

[ookamigirl]

Netero vs the King continuation.
Watching that fight was enjoyable.
Looks like it's gonna take much more to put a dent in the King.
It was like watching someone play on pinball machine.
Netero managed to impress the King, but at a steep price.
Damn, this fight was brutal.
It's nice an entire episode was that fight.
I was getting sick and tired of all the scene hopping.
In the end Netero half failed, but didn't quit.
Wonder if that Hail Mary worked..

[revive4563]

Personally, I prefer the setting that Nen is strongest on the earth but actually that was awesome surprise as a conclusion of battle.

Though I don't know King survived or not.

As I thinking, Togashi is one of the best battle story writer. He is incomparably better than Oda of One Piece, as for battle scene.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't know why, in this particular instance, fans are so admiring. I suspect that it's simple loyalty. He came by his fans fair and square, but here?

And I have seen anime fans go rabid for lesser surprises than "I had a nuke all along".

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part (sorry), but as for the first part, no. I do consider myself a fan, but I do not consider myself a person who worships the very ground their idol walks on. I truly, and honestly admire this plot twist.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Indiana Jones famously gunned down someone he didn't want to fight with a sword. And, I don't remember clearly, but wasn't Infinite Stratos chokefull of "oh no, we have a problem! But worry not, my armor has a new feature that'll really help!"

The fact that this time, it's a nuke changes nothing. It just raises more questions.

I am sorry, but I know of neither of those examples you mentioned. (nor are they examples of shonen fighting) What is clear to me is that you're not as "compatible" with this story as I am. It's really just that. I mean there's something you must like about the series, since you don't seem the type who would torture themselves "just because they invested in a series, so now they have to see it through to the end".

It's fine to not like this development. Just don't dismiss another's admiration as blind fanboyism based on the rather simplistic reasoning that you can't understand it. It is demeaning, and while I can't speak for the entire fandom, for me it is very untrue.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I am sorry, but I know of neither of those examples you mentioned. (nor are they examples of shonen fighting)

My point is, some character suddenly having a tool/power/spell to, shall we say, change the context which made a situation insolvable isn't new. Or, indeed, exclusive to shonen fighting.

What is clear to me is that you're not as "compatible" with this story as I am. It's really just that. I mean there's something you must like about the series, since you don't seem the type who would torture themselves "just because they invested in a series, so now they have to see it through to the end".

I usually like HxH well enough. But yeah, I'm not big about the pocket nuke.

It's fine to not like this development. Just don't dismiss another's admiration as blind fanboyism based on the rather simplistic reasoning that you can't understand it. It is demeaning, and while I can't speak for the entire fandom, for me it is very untrue.

Fair enough.

[ChainLegacy]

I'm kind of torn about the nuke. I think thematically it's certainly interesting and cool for the reasons others have already brought up.

My problem with it... and I hate to be the resident guy fixated on power levels, but it just doesn't seem consistent to the powers shown in the series that a human made weapon could take out what is seemingly the most powerful entity thus far introduced. If there was some kind of "Netero's nen weakened him," or "it's a nuke supercharged with nen," then yeah, that'd work for me, I actually like that latter because it's a fusion of human tech and nen... but just a nuke on its own did it?

Suddenly, it seems like the human governments of this world are a lot more powerful than I'd thought in earlier arcs (like the York City arc). If a nuke can destroy the King, then a gun or grenade could probably take out most nen users, and a missile would probably be sufficient to kill most of the strong ones. Shoot a high powered heat seeking missile at Hisoka, or Silva, or Chrollo, and are they toast? Kinda lowers the fun of the super powers for me.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Suddenly, it seems like the human governments of this world are a lot more powerful than I'd thought in earlier arcs (like the York City arc). If a nuke can destroy the King, then a gun or grenade could probably take out most nen users, and a missile would probably be sufficient to kill most of the strong ones. Shoot a high powered heat seeking missile at Hisoka, or Silva, or Chrollo, and are they toast? Kinda lowers the fun of the super powers for me.

As we said earlier, however, Uvogin's punch is "only" as strong as a missile, so yeah, a missile would probably be enough to take out a Nen user, IF it hit him, which is a big if. After all Bomber's explosives could take out Nen users too (I mean the bombs, not Little Flower), even if they focused all their Nen in guarding themselves, and they weren't nearly as powerful. What makes Nen users powerful is versatility and skill, not simply sheer strength. Hisoka could maybe die if he was hit by a heat-seeking missile, but that means that he shouldn't be able to bounce it back with Bungee Gum, to evade it with speed and make it crash somewhere else, to erase his presence and heat signature with zetsu, etc.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I'm kind of torn about the nuke. I think thematically it's certainly interesting and cool for the reasons others have already brought up.

My problem with it... and I hate to be the resident guy fixated on power levels, but it just doesn't seem consistent to the powers shown in the series that a human made weapon could take out what is seemingly the most powerful entity thus far introduced. If there was some kind of "Netero's nen weakened him," or "it's a nuke supercharged with nen," then yeah, that'd work for me, I actually like that latter because it's a fusion of human tech and nen... but just a nuke on its own did it?

Suddenly, it seems like the human governments of this world are a lot more powerful than I'd thought in earlier arcs (like the York City arc). If a nuke can destroy the King, then a gun or grenade could probably take out most nen users, and a missile would probably be sufficient to kill most of the strong ones. Shoot a high powered heat seeking missile at Hisoka, or Silva, or Chrollo, and are they toast? Kinda lowers the fun of the super powers for me.

What bothers me most is size and availability.

If they'd had to set up the nuke somewhere and had to work to lure the king there? Sure. But it looks like it was in one Netero's body cavities.

And apparently any two bit dictator can mass produce them. What does that mean for the world balance?

[Gaulek]

Next episode you will know more about it.