(CR) Saki Zenkoku-hen (National Tournament Arc)

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Flower

I completely agree that Saki's first concern was to not let the Eisui team advance, and for all the reasons you mentioned - Saki might be able to handle Kasumi, but Yuuki and Nodoka could easily have been chewed up and spit out by Jindai and Hatsumi.

This is where some inner thoughts would help, but Saki really gave us nothing this time (definetly intentional to keep the surprise about Kyoko, I'm sure). We even got more from Nodoka. Without a reference point, we can't even tell when Saki went into -/+ 0 mode, or at least I can't.

Having said that, such forward thinking sounds more like Hisa than Saki.

Also, is it too soon to mention how cute Jindai was?

[panzerfan]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Also, is it too soon to mention how cute Jindai was?

It's never too soon to mention how cute Jindai is. Blowing up that swim ring by herself kind of tells me how stubborn Jindai is as a person at that.

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

This is where some inner thoughts would help, but Saki really gave us nothing this time (definetly intentional to keep the surprise about Kyoko, I'm sure). We even got more from Nodoka. Without a reference point, we can't even tell when Saki went into -/+ 0 mode, or at least I can't.

Having said that, such forward thinking sounds more like Hisa than Saki.

Also, is it too soon to mention how cute Jindai was?

Originally Posted by panzerfan

It's never too soon to mention how cute Jindai is. Blowing up that swim ring by herself kind of tells me how stubborn Jindai is as a person at that.

Is it too soon? It is unfair to ask someone who might be the biggest Jindai fan in A-S a question like that!

In any event, I think Saki went into +/0 mode somewhere inbetween Kyouko's string of wins at the very beginning of the match. Just a guess though.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Flower

Is it too soon? It is unfair to ask someone who might be the biggest Jindai fan in A-S a question like that.

In any event, I think Saki went into +/0 mode somewhere inbetween Kyouko's string of wins at the very beginning of the match. Just a guess though.

I didn't know we had someone so dedicated around here. But yeah, Jindai is cute, specially when you add a floating device (no jokes here, her breasts aren't THAT big).

That fits with Saki being a huge scaredy cat. Everyone was screwed from the get go.

P.S: Kamisama rotation should be the name of an OP.

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

I didn't know we had someone so dedicated around here. But yeah, Jindai is cute.

That fits with Saki being a huge scaredy cat.

P.S: Kamisama rotation should be the name of an OP.

And here I thought I had repeated my love of Jindai's character so often I thought everyone was sick of it?

But yes - I really do feel that Saki's worst enemy is herself - S1 kinda drove that home in my understanding of her....

[panzerfan]

Originally Posted by Flower

But yes - I really do feel that Saki's worst enemy is herself....

I just realized something. The last protagonist that made me feel this way was Yang Wenli in Legend of Galactic Heroes. Saki's own dilemma and her own principles are her greatest undoing, yet they made her what she is. This walking contradiction that keeps doing the impossible time after time even if she has no confidence in herself really is an anomaly.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Flower

And here I thought I had repeated my love of Jindai's character so often I thought everyone was sick of it?

I mean no offense by saying this, but that wasn't the case for me. Sure, I remember you mentioning it before, but not enough to say you were a huge fan or something. I certainly didn't grow sick of it.

Maybe it's because of personal experience: Some threads I've visited lately have some very, very, VERY dedicated supporters of certain characters.

Originally Posted by Flower

But yes - I really do feel that Saki's worst enemy is herself - S1 kinda drove that home in my understanding of her....

It's really easy to see when you think about it. No matter the support she gets, Saki is still bound down by what I assume are deep issues.

Originally Posted by panzerfan

I just realized something. The last protagonist that made me feel this way was Yang Wenli in Legend of Galactic Heroes. Saki's own dilemma and her own principles are her greatest undoing, yet they made her what she is. This walking contradiction that keeps doing the impossible time after time even if she has no confidence in herself really is an anomaly.

Saki as she is right now isn't her at full potential, so we haven't yet seen what she can really do. Not sure if that differs from your example, just putting it out. IF anything, that dilemma is hampering her.

[tjalorak]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

[snip great analysis]

Very cool. This would mean though that Saki was pretty set on eliminating Eisui... Although if I had a choice, I would too if only because watching Nodoka vs. Hatsumi was harrowing, esp. without Sae around in the next round. Tossup between Miyamori and Himematsu is about the same - although like Saki, I would say Miyamori is easier than Himematsu.

If Shiro and Suzu are about the same wrt Yuuki, I'd say the middle 3 for Himematsu is stronger with Hiroe there and Saki can handle Toyone easier than Kyouko really. Saki's pretty good at working around players with 'set rules' for their power(s).

The question is, why the big show? Well, it was for exactly the purpose that Kasumi and Kyouko speculated on -- to increase the dora. Except, not Saki's dora, but Kyouko's dora. It increased Kyouko's final hand value from a 12k haneman to a 16k baiman (assuming she won by tsumo either way).

Note that Side A SF happens after this match and Senriyama seems to be pretty on top of watching their opponents - even those in the other bracket. (Also, well, Senriyama in general seems like they'd be pretty interested in Himematsu's fate given the Atago and Osaka links.)

Remember how Teru called a kan and Toki wondered if she'd get a Rinshan Kaihou based on their suspicions that Teru was related to Saki? But the point of Teru's kan was not a rinshan but to force more dora into Kuro's hand, just as Saki did so here. Granted, Teru and Saki had different motives - Teru just wanted to force Kuro to play into her whereas Saki wanted Kyouko to actually win - but the ... similarity in tactics is interesting, no?

On the other hand, Kyouko kept fighting right up to the end, while Toyone and Kasumi were very dependent on their hax powers, and felt less like they had the drive to put everything they had into winning.

Yes... At some point, I thought that Kasumi and Toyone had given up on beating Saki. Granted, pragmatism, more important to get that last (2nd) slot to move on - but I agree there was a difference in attitude between Kasumi and Toyone vs. Kyouko in regards to Saki.

Originally Posted by mhazaru

Now as an aside...I always wondered what would happen if Kyouko and Hiroe got into a disagreement about something regarding the club or tactics or whatever. I thought Kyouko was the club president for awhile since she seemed to be the one doing all the homework (I pulled a Fujita) and just acted very leader'ish. I saw some fan art that depicted them having a stare down over some issue, and I thought it was great. Neither one of them looked to be budging and Hiroe looked pretty mad You know, given all the things that go into making a successful club, there's bound to be some fights and arguments over the direction from the leaders and prominent players of the team.

Hiroe's surprisingly laid back with her club. I suspect Hiroe lets Kyouko decide on overall tactics, Kyouko gives Hiroe the data and general overview for her match's players but lets Hiroe choose whatever she wants to do, and Hiroe takes the lead on club issues.

[Flower]

No problem - wasn't offended in the least. Just surprised at my misperception and giggling at my surprise at the same time, if that makes sense.

One thing I thought of from this ep. They mentioned Kyouko's coach getting pro help and skilled players to help prepare Kyouko for Saki in the next match....

Before this Saki had a degree of anonymity, but now there is recorded footage of her dominating everything, and in downright scary manner. I am sure that footage will be used as training and preparation by all the other teams too. May serve to kinda back Saki up against the wall to go beyond what she has been doing regularly up to now as well....

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Flower

No problem - wasn't offended in the least. Just surprised at my misperception and giggling at my surprise at the same time, if that makes sense.

One thing I thought of from this ep. They mentioned Kyouko's coach getting pro help and skilled players to help prepare Kyouko for Saki in the next match....

Before this Saki had a degree of anonymity, but now there is recorded footage of her dominating everything, and in downright scary manner. I am sure that footage will be used as training and preparation by all the other teams too. May serve to kinda back Saki up against the wall to go beyond what she has been doing regularly up to now as well....

Yeah, you're still well within acceptable fan reaction parameters.

Yup, Saki has kinda had it easy till now, no one really knowing what she's up to and Koromo being arrogant as hell, but now the big players know how she rolls, and she's going against someone who specializes on analysis, so yeah, things could get difficult.

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Hiroe's surprisingly laid back with her club. I suspect Hiroe lets Kyouko decide on overall tactics, Kyouko gives Hiroe the data and general overview for her match's players but lets Hiroe choose whatever she wants to do, and Hiroe takes the lead on club issues.

Kyoko kinda handles the logistics of the whole team. Hell, Suzu is in the team only because Kyoko vouched for her.

[Kotohono]

Great episode, though I was quite surprised Saki actually went into +/-0 mode given the feeling of the previous episode. Glad Himematsu ended up making it personally, though if Himematsu and Kiyosumi both ended up going to the finals.... I would greatly worry about the 1st round . Though was also unexpected that Himematsu's Kyouko was the player who scared Saki really.

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Yup, Saki has kinda had it easy till now, no one really knowing what she's up to and Koromo being arrogant as hell, but now the big players know how she rolls, and she's going against someone who specializes on analysis, so yeah, things could get difficult.

I do wonder if Achiga's coach is giving as much attention to Nodaka's school as she did for Shiraitodai for analysis since if she did then saki might be in trouble. And I wonder if Shiraitodai (aside from Teru) plans to analysis Saki's team as Sumire didn't seem to buy what Teru said, and Awai will naturally be curious about .

Originally Posted by mangatron

NSFW

because boobs

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

4 girls I really like and ship in swimsuits together .

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by tjalorak

Note that Side A SF happens after this match and Senriyama seems to be pretty on top of watching their opponents - even those in the other bracket. (Also, well, Senriyama in general seems like they'd be pretty interested in Himematsu's fate given the Atago and Osaka links.)

Remember how Teru called a kan and Toki wondered if she'd get a Rinshan Kaihou based on their suspicions that Teru was related to Saki? But the point of Teru's kan was not a rinshan but to force more dora into Kuro's hand, just as Saki did so here. Granted, Teru and Saki had different motives - Teru just wanted to force Kuro to play into her whereas Saki wanted Kyouko to actually win - but the ... similarity in tactics is interesting, no?

Interesting indeed. I'd forgotten all about that.

It seems pretty likely that Teru would watch Saki's match (even if she made tsundere excuses about it; I don't remember for certain if anything indicated that she did or did not, though), and having seen Saki use an unusual little trick, she'd likely be reminded of it while playing Kuro. Yes, I can certainly see that tying together.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

Great episode, though I was quite surprised Saki actually went into +/-0 mode given the feeling of the previous episode. Glad Himematsu ended up making it personally, though if Himematsu and Kiyosumi both ended up going to the finals.... I would greatly worry about the 1st round . Though was also unexpected that Himematsu's Kyouko was the player who scared Saki really.

Whoever gets with Kiyosumi, we'll worry.

Originally Posted by Konakaga

I do wonder if Achiga's coach is giving as much attention to Nodaka's school as she did for Shiraitodai for analysis since if she did then saki might be in trouble. And I wonder if Shiraitodai (aside from Teru) plans to analysis Saki's team as Sumire didn't seem to buy what Teru said, and Awai will naturally be curious about .

I'm afraid Awai has nothing but Shizu in her head right now, Sumire is kinda trying to eliminate her tell (which shouldn't affect anyone but Yuu, but whatever) and Takami doesn't really need help.

They're a team that made it to the finals, so I assume Harue should pay some attention to them. You do see how hard Shizu is getting built up be Saki's big hurdle, right? I assume training and preparation is involved.

[Flower]

Remember too that Harue got quite a scare from just seeing Saki in the distance, as shown at the end of Achiga Hen ep 3. You bet your boots she'd be paying attention to someone who did that to her!

[tjalorak]

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Kyoko kinda handles the logistics of the whole team. Hell, Suzu is in the team only because Kyoko vouched for her.

I was unclear. I wasn't talking about logistics. For club issues, I would mean handling player personalities and confidence levels, smoothing over disputes, that sort of thing. The personal touch, as it were. For some reason, I just get the feeling that Kyouko would be a bit awkward with that sort of thing (Kinue's obsession with Hiroe aside) and Hiroe's just so calm in club but clearly authoritative that the other team members would settle down around her.

Originally Posted by Kinematics

Interesting indeed. I'd forgotten all about that.

It seems pretty likely that Teru would watch Saki's match (even if she made tsundere excuses about it; I don't remember for certain if anything indicated that she did or did not, though), and having seen Saki use an unusual little trick, she'd likely be reminded of it while playing Kuro. Yes, I can certainly see that tying together.

My personal feeling is that they aren't watching each other at all (purposefully going out of their way to do so), but that they're... just so tied together / linked / experienced with each other's play that they've sublimated some of the other's tricks unconsciously. IMO, there's a pretty neat picture on this. Not dora in specific, just links between the two. More and more, a lot of visual motifs, other than the obvious flower v. wind, are starting to blur between Teru and Saki.

[teja208]

I had been thinking: what was the cause behind Saki's power surge that end up breaking Sae's monocle? Did she switch to +-0 mode from that point?

I have little knowledge of mahjong, but based on night_sentinel's analysis of the captain match (manga version - spoilers abound for anime only viewers, follow link at your own risk!), Saki switched to her zero mode early in the match thanks to Kyouko disrupting her kan in the first round, so switching to zero mode isn't the cause of Saki's power serge.

But that happened early in the match. I don't think even Saki could've possibly predict who is going to advance along with her team to the semis, but I bet she prayed that it's not Kyouko's team.

Anime made it obvious that Saki looked dread after she broke the monocle. Could it be that at this point she might have realized she can no longer able stop Kyouko from getting second place and advance if she were to continue with her zero mode? Hmm.

My theory is that the cause behind Saki's power serge could be due to her trying to resist her zero mode and failed. The act of resisting the urge to aim for +-0 in itself is the cause of the power surge. Of course this is supported by Kyouko feeling good about the tile she's getting right before Saki eyes started glowing.

I would also like to hear what others think is the possible cause behind Saki's power serge near the end of the match.

[eavein18]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

The power surge may have been a manifestation of the power that was necessary to completely subvert the power of the god that was possessing Kasumi, cause it's clear there were some massive shenanigans going on. Changing up the tile sequence while accounting for a god that was -also- changing up the tile sequence is probably pretty tricky.

I agree with this one for teja's query

[Flower]

Kinematics idea earlier in the thread quoted above sounded pretty good.

For me though I thought the power surge came out because that was the defining moment not directly related to Saki winning that would achieve the result she had chosen. All the other hands before and after were Saki's utter and complete personal domination and wins.

[fukarming]

love the expansion of South 4 in the anime.

The anime also confirms Toyone has more than 2 ability. The one she uses against her first meeting with the Miyamori gang, and the South 4 when the Miyamori gang mention she is using the "first win" ability. Too bad we won't know what exactly this ability do.

It also showcase (again) that despite everyone trying the best they can, Saki still trumps them.

[tjalorak]

Toyone has 3 confirmed abilities (Tomobiki, Senpu, Shakku) that we've seen on screen. Given her theme, she should have 3 more to play with. Her 'first' ability, going by priority of date, would be Sakigachi (good luck in the morning, bad luck in the afternoon).

Random guessing: Perhaps it means she can build her hand first / faster than the rest but has to win in the first half of the go-arounds. If she doesn't finish before then, she won't be able to win on it.