2007-06-11, 21:13 | Link #241 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I really do think "getting it right" is worth the effort/wait. The last thing this little story needs is more murk and misinformation. There's been enough of that.
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2007-06-11, 23:03 | Link #242 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Then I shall perhaps point out that I noticed 4 screw-ups in the SaHa version, 3 of which are quite significant, though hardly vital to the main story, which is conveyed just fine despite the innacuracies, and 14 screw-ups in your version(this is disregarding the fixes you've already made), most of which are again not vital to understanding the story. They are typically found in the more subtle differences your translations share. The stuff nobody really gives a shit about, but SaHa is generally closer to the mark than you are in these instances.
1 of these is an occurence where you're both off the mark and yours is arguably worse as it affects the story far more than the way it was phrased in the SaHa version. It's arguably just as random as the SaHa version, and yet the story reads more fluently in theirs simply because of the manner in which it's phrased. It's a vital story oriented mistake that I'm sure most people simply breezed by without a second thought. Of course, when you're simply reading through a manga, most people spend a dozen seconds per page and pay no mind to such things. A handful of mistakes can possibly be chalked up to minor embellishing/rephrasing, which I personally do NOT consider harmful, but they are still technically inacurate, and given the fact that you've been preaching accuracy, It's hard to justify letting these slide. I've only counted in the more significant rephrases. The kind of stuff that simply shouldn't have been done for someone so concerned with accuracy. More often than not, though, they are problems with the tone and wording that characters "should" be using in their sentences which you are simply not properly conveying. Typically, my guess is that they are a result of running through it quickly and disregarding the japanese grammar being used in favor of simply "getting the point across". 3 mistakes seem to be the filling of bubbles at random as it's clearly not what's being said nor implied, but they are hardly earth-shattering mistakes. Nobody's going to lose any sleep over them. Another mistake is due to a simple disregard for the vocabulary. It's clear that you know what it says, but with the way it's worded, you can only sit there and go "wtf?" I apologize if I'm being so cryptic here, but I can't say I'm willing to simply hand you the fixes on a silver platter when you're criticizing another for making mistakes and claiming to have the "refined" version. I'm sure the other group is just as welcome to correct their mistakes and release their own refined version. After all, you probably both have each other's versions, so you can compare and correct as you see fit. Being a translator, you should realize that by criticizing another and then asking for others to comment on how poor your "competition" is, you're opening the door to people who will criticize your work as they need both translations and the raw in order to compare. It's clear from your earlier posts that you were initially trying to avoid publicly passing judgement of any kind(At least, that's what I gathered from it), and it's understandable that you would try to defend your translation when the discrepancies were brought forward. If it seems like I am doing all of this facisciously, I assure you that's not the case. Pedobear just likes the loli. I wish you luck in your future translations as I'm sure you intend to continue and I'm sure that no matter what innacuracies they may contain, 99% of your readers won't have the slightest clue, nor will they actually care. |
2007-06-12, 00:09 | Link #244 |
うるとらぺど
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 44
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.....I could present my arguments and let the thread degenerate into a flamebait nitpicking about the most minor of details, which is what you are doing, and get it locked.
Or just totally ignore everything and let people decides which is the most fluid of translation when the dust settles. Either way, the translation out now are efforts by fans, not professional translators. If we are going to argue the most minor of details all day long, we might as well pool our resources and get a professional translator to sort thing out. Last edited by MakubeX2; 2007-06-12 at 00:38. |
2007-06-12, 00:49 | Link #245 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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This sounded like an invitation to comment. I apologize if I've misinterpreted it as a request to comment strictly on the SaHa bubbles in question, in which case the first is wrong, the second is wrong, the third is wrong, the fourth is wrong and the fifth is fine, which has technically already been pointed out by potatochobit. Don't dish what you can't take. Sound advice for any translator. Either way, I'll leave you to your own designs as I've no real intention of turning this into a thread full of flaming. I've commented as requested(By you, no less) and I will disappear into the night in order to fondle baby Rin.
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2007-06-12, 01:03 | Link #246 |
Certified Organic
Join Date: Dec 2005
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you are all vicitms of the theory of relativity.
quality is better than quantity, relative to your persona at this point in time. because right now you feel the length of time between both groups is acceptable. or admissable. or adequate. or tolerable. or sufficient. or respectable. or satisfactory. but lets change the time of reference. lets say the translation group is 4 months behind. then u may feel accuracy is left wanting. or impaired. or exiguous. or second string. or unsatisfactory. or insufficient. and now lets say its even farther behind, we are now a whole year behind the last release. now you might say something is amiss. or dissatisfactory. or inadequate. or lousy. or substandard. or unacceptable. you cant make a sandwich without both the peanut butter and the jelly, unless it's roast beef. |
2007-06-12, 01:07 | Link #247 | |
Dansa med oss
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 36
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What ticked him off (as well as myself, honestly) was that you criticized his translation and then refused to offer him any assistance, despite him repeatedly emphasizing that he wanted people to inform him of errors if they were found. If everyone is telling him that his translations are better than someone else's, then what's wrong with taking a little pride in it? SaHa's stuff had me raising my eyebrows, too, as I'd already read that section raw before it was released in a scanlation. Never criticize someone else unless you're willing to help them improve. Otherwise, you're just being a jerk. Contrary to popular belief, knowing more Japanese does not increase the size of you genitalia. People aren't scanlating this manga for personal gain - they're doing it because they like the story and want others who can't learn the language for one reason or another to enjoy it as well. If we're just going to bicker over who's translation is better and who made what errors (I'm not talking about fair comparison), then someone is doing this for the wrong reasons. In conclusion, either help him or lay off. This "you screwed up, and I'm just going to point and laugh 'cause I don't like you" stuff makes me feel like I'm back in fifth grade. It's just pointless antagonism. |
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2007-06-12, 01:19 | Link #248 |
Banned
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I like how everybody is arguing over the translation of a story about a loli trying to seduce and enslave her teacher with minor life lessons inbetween. Come on guys, this isn't Legend of The Galactic Heroes where a single screwup in the translation could spell disaster for understanding the plot later down the line, this is a guilty pleasure meant to be enjoyed for it's edginess, risque topics and innuendo.
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2007-06-12, 01:28 | Link #249 |
うるとらぺど
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 44
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I admit, I don't like how SaHa is attempting to release their scanlation at breakneck speed.
The fact that they are commissioned by a duo isn't helping me with the image that they are not doing this out of love of the material, but money. And the result shows. Perhaps if they improve upon the quality, then maybe, my zealous outlooks will change. |
2007-06-12, 02:29 | Link #250 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Quote:
It certainly wastes bandwidth to post that something is wrong without pointing out what it should be and why.
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2007-06-12, 04:00 | Link #251 |
うるとらぺど
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 44
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At least now that we know something about SaHa (or at least about a fan/representative/whatever of theirs)
They can't take criticism when presented. Any further arguments will highlight this point. But enough, let us discuss about the current progress with the story. Anyone shocked at Rin's past ? |
2007-06-12, 04:39 | Link #252 | |
Silent Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Netherlands
Age: 38
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I certainly believe there won't be any romantic relationships between the "adults and the children." Even Rin's type of love she has will change overtime. Unless she keeps on loving him till she's 18(maybe even 16 =o) and Aoki has no choise but to jump the gun. I'm expecting Rin to get her hearth broken though when Aoki gets a girlfriend. I think he will get one sooner or later and it will be someone of his age. :O Thinking about this series is pretty pure till now, of course Rin does some crazy stuff, but hey nothing immoral has happened yet.(considering sex between cousins isn't considered incest in Japan) There has been a lot more crazy manga, where the student-teacher actually have sex, incest and all that stuff. Got canceled in USA for a crappy reason =.= |
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2007-06-12, 05:11 | Link #253 | ||
うるとらぺど
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 44
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Quote:
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2007-06-12, 05:25 | Link #254 | |
Silent Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Netherlands
Age: 38
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Quote:
If it does I hope Rin doesn't to much crazy stuff. Meh Aoki will make it right, I have some faith in him that he'll set Rin on the right tracks. |
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2007-06-12, 05:39 | Link #255 | |
うるとらぺど
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 44
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Quote:
But she still resort to her usual tricks whenever appropiate. |
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2007-06-12, 11:19 | Link #256 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Hmmmmm, since this is a single thread discussion.... maybe we should put specific plot developments under spoiler tags - especially ones past the scanlation releases.
I'm going to review my posts through the thread while its still young and do so. I've got to finish two QC/edit tasks for a couple of fansubs and then I'll focus on any scanlation comments.
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2007-06-12, 13:14 | Link #257 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 47
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Referring to the posts about errors in the content....
I believe criticisms should be constructive, with suggestions given for each problem. And to the comment about those of us whom can not for one reason or another learn Japanese *bows deeply* I thankyou... I am one of those people. As I have dual learning disabilities on top of debilitating migraines, and your efforts make it possible if only for a short time, to forget those things and enjoy something I love. (manga) *smiles very warmly* You do more than you know with your efforts, and I for one applaud them!!!! |
2007-06-14, 02:03 | Link #258 |
うるとらぺど
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 44
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From the course of the last few days, after discussion with my Editor and Typesetter, we have come to a conclusion that it's not worthwhile to have a race of speed with our competitor.
Instead we will try to win people over with quality. From Chapter 8 forth, we will use Magazine Exclusive Coloured Scans whenever it was originally present over the Black & White pages featured in the compiled volumes. Also from Feedbacks gathered about our scans, we will correct any and all mistakes present and complied everything together into "digital volumes", complete with everything you see in the hardcopy Japanese releases. (Content Pages, Centrefold, Posters, etc) We are also in the midst of discussing throwing some little bonuses which might have nothing to do with KnJ, but the target audience will definitely like.... |
2007-06-14, 03:11 | Link #259 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Sounds beautiful .... tis the best recourse just to work harder
I'm sandbagged with the stuff I'm already committed to but I would like to take a comparative look at the work so far.. since you're moving carefully it'll give me a chance to catch up once I've cleared my table. Anything I have to say translation-wise, I'll just PM so you can ignore it at will I haven't noticed any real flamers yet though....
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2007-06-14, 05:09 | Link #260 | ||
Member
Join Date: May 2007
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my two cents on the translations:
I remember one interview with a head of some anime big-name company on ANN regarding his personal/professional standing on fansubs, which goes something like this... "Personally, I like fansubs because they are from the fan community. Professionally, if the fansubs are not made with much love and respect, (in this case, accurate translations) they have the potential to damage the product." We don't know if a licensor will pick up KnJ in the future... so SaHa and NLB both have a duty to treat their projects with utmost care and respect. The mere admission that SaHa was commissioned to do this project, and not doing it out of "love and respect," shows a major lack of fansubber/scanlator ethics on their side. And if things are commissioned, there is usually money involved... yet another taboo among fansubbers/scanlators. @pedobear Quote:
@Kaioshin_Sama Well... KnJ is one of those manga that has to have accurate translations. If you scroll back a few pages, you'll see a phrase that goes something like "ejaculate inside me" or something. Those who know niponggo are arguing about the grammar and/or other stuff about how the phrase is meant to be understood. Looking into the highly-controversial nature of this manga, accurately translating the words the author wants to convey with impeccable accuracy is vital to cleaning this manga's reputation. Improperly translated words may lose their true meaning, and those who are against this manga (even though they have no idea what the story holds) will further justify their stand. Being too nit-picky on the translating is pretty much lame, but it's inevitable, considering that two groups are scanlating it: one being commissioned to speed-sub it, the other aiming for quality. (just read SaHa's [and NLb's] chapter seven... it makes me go 'awww...' XD ) Quote:
First off, although I strongly question SaHa's motives and ethics as scanlators, they seem to have a good grasp of English grammar and expressions. The speech used by the characters seems more appropriate to the context of the situation and the flow of discussion is clear and concise... I'll give their group at least that much. To NLB and MakubeX2, although I sincerely admire your group's drives and motivations in scanlating KnJ, there seems to be recurring problems with grammar and spelling typos. I know I'm no translator, and I know nil about Niponggo, but if you need assistance in reviewing the grammar and spelling, as well as "naturalizing" the flow of speech for an English-speaking audience, I would be more than happy to assist. And finally, please don't call me a member of the grammar gestapo... From what I see in KnJ, I just want to help out with the scanlations, as well as serve as a critic to help improve the quality of the scanlations (at least for NLB, since SaHa has already confirmed that they have no intention to review or revise their completed chapters) Last edited by bleakessence; 2007-06-14 at 07:32. Reason: Added comparisons of chap7 |
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Tags |
comedy, growing up, loli, school life, seinen |
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