Claymore Chapter 99

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Ryuken

So you have noticed. Come to think of it, I would say that the only time that she had ever thought sanely after going berserk was when she was scared. Like the time when Teresa was going to chop off her head.

The way I see it, she seems to be in a stable state of mind right now iibh

[Creangeru]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

The way I see it, she seems to be in a stable state of mind right now iibh

The most important question here is for how long is she going to stay that way?

Btw: What does iibh mean?

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Creangeru

The most important question here is for how long is she going to stay that way?

It looks like she's going to be like that for good now. I don't think Yagi showed us a stabalized Priscilla only to take her back to the docile little girl she was under Isley and then under Raki. Else, she will probably be like this as long as she's physically close to Clare, since it looks like she was conscious of what she was doing ever since meeting Raki (if not before) despite her instability.

Originally Posted by Creangeru

Btw: What does iibh mean?

If I'm Being Honest

[SagaraSouske]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

I think it means how strong you can become as a fighter. Never mind warrior or awakening. As a fighter overall, lest it be awakened or not, Priscilla would've surpassed Teresa. There was no mention the only way she could do that was by awakening. She still needed to gain more experience as a fighter in order to win against Teresa. When Priscilla and Teresa actually fought, Priscilla was using around 80% of her power, and even with 10%, Teresa was still toying with her. Priscilla won only because Teresa let her guard down at the last moment of battle. If she hadn't, I believe Teresa would've won even if Priscilla awakened completely, but not without using somewhere between 50% and 70% of her own power i.e. close to her own limits. However, if Priscilla let a few more years of training and fighting pass, she'd have gained enough experience to fight Teresa evenly and perhaps win. So it's not really about awakening, but how strong a fighter you can be.

I agree with the first half of your assessment but not the second half. When Teresa measured Priscilla's potential, it is definitely measuring her as a claymore and not as an AB. However, the crucial difference after Priscilla awakened is that she awakened as if she already reached her potential as a claymore. Thus as soon as she awakened, she would be from the state which she is possiblely equal or stronger then Teresa and then add the effect of awakening to it. Plus, awakening it not adding the last 20%, the power granted through awakening far exceeds the power increase from 80% to 100%. It varies from claymore to claymore. We see Ophelia not getting a huge power increase when she awakened, and Clare clearly did even if she didn't fully awaken.

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Teresa was a consummate Youki reader with tons of raw power. That's pretty much the only thing Teresa had. She was so good at reading Youki she could predict its movement before it happened. Clare can do that as well, but she didn't inherit all the raw power that Teresa had. That fact that Clare was also able to understand Youki before becoming a Claymore probably made her compatible with Teresa's flesh. Otherwise, I don't think Clare would've gained as much benefit from using Teresa's flesh as she actually did.

You are completely underestimating the power of Youki Prediction. The same skill both Teresa and Clare possesses. From Clare's journey, we saw how difficult it was to master the skill and Clare is probably still not at the level Teresa was. It was such a huge equalizer in several of Clare's fights where her opponent was far more powerful. Slasher Arc, the male AB overpowered all 4 of them including Miria. It was only after Clare started to employ youki predication did she and Miria engineer the defeat of said AB, even when there is a huge gap between his and Clare's power level. The Dauf fight is similar, which QS did help, without mixing youki prediction into QS to create her own version of controlled QS, she would not have been able to cut a path through for Jean. Teresa had honed and mastered both youki prediction and fighting in general even without completely relying on it. Veteran experience is a lesser version of youki prediction as it is movement prediction rather then youki.

[Creangeru]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

You are completely underestimating the power of Youki Prediction. The same skill both Teresa and Clare possesses. From Clare's journey, we saw how difficult it was to master the skill and Clare is probably still not at the level Teresa was. It was such a huge equalizer in several of Clare's fights where her opponent was far more powerful. Slasher Arc, the male AB overpowered all 4 of them including Miria. It was only after Clare started to employ youki predication did she and Miria engineer the defeat of said AB, even when there is a huge gap between his and Clare's power level. The Dauf fight is similar, which QS did help, without mixing youki prediction into QS to create her own version of controlled QS, she would not have been able to cut a path through for Jean. Teresa had honed and mastered both youki prediction and fighting in general even without completely relying on it. Veteran experience is a lesser version of youki prediction as it is movement prediction rather then youki.

It seems you are overestimating it, at least in the Teresa vs. Priscilla fight. Considering amounts of youki above a certain level. We must not forget, if the opponent is small with small range attacks like Priscilla's and fast on top of it, it becomes incredibly difficult to read small details in the movement. What I'm saying is it is easier to fight with Isley, who moves as fast as Rigardo, but is (definitely) bigger than him than to fight with little Priscilla.

I can't believe I'm defending my most hated character and Riful killer.:frown:

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

I agree with the first half of your assessment but not the second half. When Teresa measured Priscilla's potential, it is definitely measuring her as a claymore and not as an AB. However, the crucial difference after Priscilla awakened is that she awakened as if she already reached her potential as a claymore. Thus as soon as she awakened, she would be from the state which she is possiblely equal or stronger then Teresa and then add the effect of awakening to it. Plus, awakening it not adding the last 20%, the power granted through awakening far exceeds the power increase from 80% to 100%. It varies from claymore to claymore. We see Ophelia not getting a huge power increase when she awakened, and Clare clearly did even if she didn't fully awaken.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a difference between using 100% of your Youki and actual awakening except for a drastic change in the awakenee's state of mind. Take Alicia for example. She was trained to use 100% of her Youki while Beth used the Soul Link to keep her sister's state of mind stable and human. When Alicia actually did awake when she fought against Priscilla with her sister, her appearance was no different than it was before when she awakened with the Soul Link, but her state of mind was doubtlessly different. That was hinted when she was fighting Riful while having difficulty maintaining both herself and Beth. My point is that when Alicia was using 100% of her power but with a "human" state of mind, her appearance was no different than when she really did awaken.

That being said, using 100% of one's Youki and awakening are no different from a combat perspective, but only from a mental one. When Priscilla awakened, she still had room to grow as a warrior and perhaps let her own demon energy grow. It was said in the beginning of the manga that after a long time in battle, every Claymore eventually becomes the monster inside them. The reason for that is probably because their Youki grows over time, and eventually grows so much that it's beyond them to control it. How well you can control your Youki also plays a part in that, and that's possibly another reason why Priscilla's potential was so great. She was able to control her Youki so well she was able to completely supress it even in the heat of battle. Just imagine how much her Youki could grow before she lost control of it.

That's also what makes half-awakenees so special. They went over their limits and still managed to return to their human forms. Priscilla had become a Claymore only recently. Her own Youki still had plenty of time to grow. If she had awakened later than she did, her awakened form would've been even stronger. The way I see it, the power begotten from awakening is directly proportional to your actual power as a Claymore (not potential). If you're weak, your awakened form will be weak, and vice-versa. Priscilla still had a lot of time to grow in that respect, but because she used all her power from the start, Teresa was still able to fight her evenly and win without too much of a fuss.

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

You are completely underestimating the power of Youki Prediction. The same skill both Teresa and Clare possesses. From Clare's journey, we saw how difficult it was to master the skill and Clare is probably still not at the level Teresa was. It was such a huge equalizer in several of Clare's fights where her opponent was far more powerful. Slasher Arc, the male AB overpowered all 4 of them including Miria. It was only after Clare started to employ youki predication did she and Miria engineer the defeat of said AB, even when there is a huge gap between his and Clare's power level. The Dauf fight is similar, which QS did help, without mixing youki prediction into QS to create her own version of controlled QS, she would not have been able to cut a path through for Jean. Teresa had honed and mastered both youki prediction and fighting in general even without completely relying on it. Veteran experience is a lesser version of youki prediction as it is movement prediction rather then youki.

In terms of how valuable it is in battle, Youki prediction is an incredibly powerful tool, but it's nowhere near as intricate or complex Galatea's Youki manipulation. It is also quite useless if the opponent is not using any Youki at all. That's why Teresa was initially having trouble against Priscilla in the beginning of their battle. Teresa was also having trouble reading Priscilla's movements when she was using around 70% of her power. It was just too great for Teresa, which is why she used 10% of her Youki in response. Youki reading does have its weaknesses.

[Ulquihorror]

Maybe Irene isn't dead yet. Instead of killing her, Raphaele told her about her plan and asked her if she could help if everything turns into a failure(now). Maybe Irene will show up when Priscilla badly injures helen+deneve and clare. Helen will get all her limbs destroyed and will be given transplants by deneve. By regenerating herself, deneve will awaken and die. Clare will then be given some advices by Irene and will return in order to merge with raciella. something like that, lols.

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

I think it means how strong you can become as a fighter. Never mind warrior or awakening. As a fighter overall, lest it be awakened or not, Priscilla would've surpassed Teresa. There was no mention the only way she could do that was by awakening.

Blasphemy.
And just how did you come up with this conclusion? Those were Irene's words - right before she went 'oops - I underestimated Teresa again'.
Claymore vs Claymore or AB vs AB, Teresa would always be the clear winner.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Cyclone

Blasphemy.
And just how did you come up with this conclusion? Those were Irene's words - right before she went 'oops - I underestimated Teresa again'.
Claymore vs Claymore or AB vs AB, Teresa would always be the clear winner.

That's precisely what I said if you read the rest of my posts. Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're saying Teresa would've won even if Priscilla fully awakened at the time. I said the same. However, in time, Priscilla would've beaten Teresa. Teresa herself said it according to the translations I read. I know you can read the original Japanese versions so do correct me if I'm wrong in saying Teresa, not just Irene, also said that Priscilla would've surpassed her if she lived and gained more experience through battle over time.

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

That's precisely what I said if you read the rest of my posts. Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're saying Teresa would've won even if Priscilla fully awakened at the time. I said the same. However, in time, Priscilla would've beaten Teresa. Teresa herself said it according to the translations I read. I know you can read the original Japanese versions so do correct me if I'm wrong in saying Teresa, not just Irene, also said that Priscilla would've surpassed her if she lived and gained more experience through battle over time.

Priscilla was as experienced as theresa was because theresa showed no indication that she ever trained alone and all her adversaries were nothing but insects. Only by mere aging you don't get more experience. Experience wise priscilla had even the advantage if we consider that she was stealth-ed or released that much yoki that teresa couldn't read her flow. Theresa was the one who had to fight something she never encountered before and couldn't use her biggest asset not priscilla. So we can say that they were even experience wise.
Theresa said: I may beat her now...
when she couldn't read her. After she could she spoke way more confident and wouldn't have spared her and risked clare to become an orphan and a subject for the org. I am still quite sure that theresa couldn't read anything from priscilla when she was suppressed even if someone mentioned that she could read rafaella.
Priscilla is IMO another league when it comes to suppression.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

Priscilla was as experienced as theresa was because theresa showed no indication that she ever trained alone and all her adversaries were nothing but insects. Only by mere aging you don't get more experience.

No, but Priscilla would have eventually taken part in hunts for awakened ones. They would've doubtlessly proven to be no better adversaries than they have against Teresa, but it would've given Priscilla time to get the ropes and control her emotions in the heat of combat, something she failed to do against Teresa and would've lead to her own death if she hadn't resorted to trickery and got Teresa to let her guard down. And yes, mere aging doesn't let you get any stronger, but the more a Claymore fights using Youki, the stronger the Youki becomes imo. It's sort of like body building. It becomes stronger the more it is used, and that's probably one of the reasons Claymores eventually lose control. The power becomes to great for them. It wouldn't have been any different for Priscilla, given that she would've gone on awakened hunts.

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

Experience wise priscilla had even the advantage if we consider that she was stealth-ed or released that much yoki that teresa couldn't read her flow. Theresa was the one who had to fight something she never encountered before and couldn't use her biggest asset not priscilla. So we can say that they were even experience wise.
Theresa said: I may beat her now...
when she couldn't read her. After she could she spoke way more confident and wouldn't have spared her and risked clare to become an orphan and a subject for the org. I am still quite sure that theresa couldn't read anything from priscilla when she was suppressed even if someone mentioned that she could read rafaella.

Even though Teresa couldn't clearly read her movements, she had more raw combat experience than Priscilla. Priscilla couldn't read Teresa's Youki either, so they were even at that stage. And it wasn't until Priscilla started releasing nearly all her Youki that she was having trouble reading her, but using more of her (Teresa's) own Youki in response made the odds more favorable for her. But Teresa easily read Priscilla's movements along with everyone else when she was using roughly 30%. Teresa floored her and the four other Claymores that fought her then. It's not as if Teresa couldn't read Priscilla no matter what she did.

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

No, but Priscilla would have eventually taken part in hunts for awakened ones. They would've doubtlessly proven to be no better adversaries than they have against Teresa, but it would've given Priscilla time to get the ropes and control her emotions in the heat of combat, something she failed to do against Teresa and would've lead to her own death if she hadn't resorted to trickery and got Teresa to let her guard down. And yes, mere aging doesn't let you get any stronger, but the more a Claymore fights using Youki, the stronger the Youki becomes imo. It's sort of like body building. It becomes stronger the more it is used, and that's probably one of the reasons Claymores eventually lose control. The power becomes to great for them. It wouldn't have been any different for Priscilla, given that she would've gone on awakened hunts.

To bad priscilla instinctively like theresa never released yoki and as long as not a number one like rosemary awakened priscilla wouldn't have to release any.
so the only thing she could become more stable would have been her mentality. That is not of use in a direct sword fight like she had against theresa with 0% yoki. We can argue even the other way around that her instability made priscilla unpredictable and more dangerous to theresa.
IMO you can say that she wasn't a full grown woman yet so she could become better in strength and speed but experience wise the difference between those two should not be significant.

Even though Teresa couldn't clearly read her movements, she had more raw combat experience than Priscilla. Priscilla couldn't read Teresa's Youki either, so they were even at that stage. And it wasn't until Priscilla started releasing nearly all her Youki that she was having trouble reading her, but using more of her (Teresa's) own Youki in response made the odds more favorable for her. But Teresa easily read Priscilla's movements along with everyone else when she was using roughly 30%. Teresa floored her and the four other Claymores that fought her then. It's not as if Teresa couldn't read Priscilla no matter what she did.

Theresa was used to use her yoki sensing, she used it since she was a child. Priscilla probably never used it the way theresa used it. IMO theresa had an aura because she never actively suppressed her yoki she only didn't release it. IMO that is a difference. But i am not sure myself here. Perhaps someone else has an idea here. Okay, theresa released it against rosemary. I don't think theresa was stealth-ed like Priscilla. Perhaps there was a time during the fight teresa could have read priscila's yoki but to really measure and compare their strength we have to observe those scenes in which she couldn't at the beginning and the end theresa was blind and despite that she pawned priscilla easily every time.
At the beginning priscilla fought a blind theresa. In order to beat priscilla theresa simply raised her base speed of movement beyond that of priscilla. No technique, no tricks only raw speed was it. Therefore priscilla thought first that she slowed down because theresa made the same movements only faster. Something like that has nothing to do with experience.

Even though Teresa couldn't clearly read her movements, she had more raw combat experience than Priscilla.

We saw theresa fight yoma and rosemary. You really can't call that combat experience. Clare nearly defeated the paburo ab and fought it yokiless only with theresa's sensing technique and during that time clare was at least 10 times weaker than irene. So theresa with better sensing abilities and a better sensing technique and superior base speed, strength and endurance would have had no problems to kill even strong ab's with that technique with one strike of her sword. She gained no experience from fighting them because they were mere insects to her, even if she fought them yokiless. against her preemptive aura protection they had no chance at all. Life was boring for theresa.
Rosemary's arm is a good example of how strong theresa was even with 0% yoki release.

[DragoZERO]

I love how every month the thread steers into Teresa fighting someone and somehow mentions Teresa's fight with Priscilla.

We will never know how strong Teresa was and never will. It is part of what makes this story so great. It is part of the mystery of Claymores. It is part of how bad ass Teresa was and will always be.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I love how every month the thread steers into Teresa fighting someone and somehow mentions Teresa's fight with Priscilla.

We will never know how strong Teresa was and never will. It is part of what makes this story so great. It is part of the mystery of Claymores. It is part of how bad ass Teresa was and will always be.

Roflmao, you were doing great, until this part

--

Gernot's 99 translation came out last night, by the way.

Reading it and comparing, is a pretty different experience to say the least, and also a bit more confusing.

*The first translation for example, said that Priscilla would follow the scent(Raki) in order to "regain everything she was beforehand". This one however, says, that she's convinced what she is seeking(whatever it may be, does not stipulate), is at the other end/tip/source etc etc....which I assume implies she may be looking for Claire(?)

It's weird; like the last chapter, Gernot really seemed to have trouble with this one. While last chapter seemed hard for everyone though, the first translation we got seemed pretty simple to understand.

Second change I caught was Dauf; nothing major, but the first translation said he basically didn't want to leave Riful. Here though, aside from that, he's also too weak to leave anyway.

This one also has Priscilla saying "I must endure it" when she attacks Riful - in other words she, figures, isn't gonna enjoy the taste of this. It's kind of important because the first one says "They weren't very taste, I've been waiting for this", it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't enjoy the humans. This one though, says "they weren't enough, I must endure this", which refers to the taste. It's basically the complete opposite, but makes more sense.

The most notable thing of them all however, is something completely unexpected in the translation:

"JUMP　SQ　３月号　特報！！
Jump Square March Edition News Flash!!
連載１００回記念巻頭カラー！！
Opening pages in color to commemorate the 100th chapter!!
八木教広「CLAYMORE」スペシャルプレゼント企画もアリ！！
Norihiro Yagi “Claymore” Special Present is also planned!!"

I have no idea what's gonna happen, but it's something else to look forward too

--

A french translation came out as well - I gave it a look, and it seems to be a mixture: the beginning monologue, is like Franky-Houses, the Dauf part is like Gernot's, the Riful part is totally different:

"Priscilla : Ils n’avaient pas très bon goût
Priscilla : C’est une personne comme toi qu’il me fallait

Every which way the last part gets translated, I keep getting something along the lines of "A person like you is the one I need", which makes her seem more like a target then either one 0_0.

[Ryuken]

Originally Posted by Cyclone

Blasphemy.

You really like to use that word now don't you @Cyc, but I would take Teresa's word for it, that Prissy would surpass her in time, further adding that the next time they met she would not be so sure that she would be able to defeat Prissy. That never happened now did it. Prissy pulled a prank. However, if for some reason they were to survive that fight, both of them, then I would like to think that Teresa would always find a way to defeat her opponents no matter what. After all, she is that strong.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Roflmao, you were doing great, until this part

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Originally Posted by Ryuken

You really like to use that word now don't you @Cyc, but I would take Teresa's word for it, that Prissy would surpass her in time, further adding that the next time they met she would not be so sure that she would be able to defeat Prissy. That never happened now did it. Prissy pulled a prank. However, if for some reason they were to survive that fight, both of them, then I would like to think that Teresa would always find a way to defeat her opponents no matter what. After all, she is that strong.

Well, if it is fact that Priscilla's potential is greater than Teresa's then an awakened Priscilla would be stronger than Teresa. And if Priscilla didn't awaken her victory would, as you suggested, stem on how well she can counter Teresa's tactics. Teresa is awfully clever.

[Freya]

We just need to get the Japanese fans to ask Yagi the Priscella/Teresa thing. Only then will it be settled.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Drago

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

You were acting fair, centric and unbiased....until that last bit

[Gooral]

As for the "special present" in the 100th chapter, I'm thinking that maybe the chapter may be extra large or we will see a movie/2nd season of anime announcement, although the latter is doubtful because they said "is planned", i.e. it's not certain. Bonus pages are the most probable thing but maybe Yagi will surprise me. Also it will be great to see some pages in color. I especially want colored Clare and maybe Dee (Dietrich) but I hope Priscilla won't be in the picture.

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

That's precisely what I said if you read the rest of my posts. Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're saying Teresa would've won even if Priscilla fully awakened at the time. I said the same. However, in time, Priscilla would've beaten Teresa. Teresa herself said it according to the translations I read. I know you can read the original Japanese versions so do correct me if I'm wrong in saying Teresa, not just Irene, also said that Priscilla would've surpassed her if she lived and gained more experience through battle over time.

Originally Posted by Ryuken

You really like to use that word now don't you @Cyc, but I would take Teresa's word for it, that Prissy would surpass her in time, further adding that the next time they met she would not be so sure that she would be able to defeat Prissy. That never happened now did it. Prissy pulled a prank. However, if for some reason they were to survive that fight, both of them, then I would like to think that Teresa would always find a way to defeat her opponents no matter what. After all, she is that strong.

After so many times, I have to say it again? It's not like I'm saying anything that's not said every other month! So, once again, and without further ado:

Teresa only ever said: "Deep inside she harbors a monster. In time she will become incredibly strong. I may be able to beat her now... but next time who knows" - ch. 21.
She also says (after the fight):
"You can come after me as many times as you want. I'll cut you down every time." - ch 22.

These are the only things Teresa has ever said on this topic (please feel free to prove me wrong). Please tell me which translation you are using which claims anything different (include chapter and page number). I fail to see how this aknowledgement of Priscilla's potential, should make anyone conclude she said: "I am going to be weaker".

This surpassing nonsense was only uttered by Irene or Rubel - neither or which had any clue as to Teresa's true power.

Let Priscilla train a lifetime as a Claymore, and sure, she'll become strong, but I believe she'll still get whooped by Teresa whenever she tries it (fairly) [Teresa seems to think she has an edge after the fight]. You are also making the same mistake the Congressional Budget Office regularly makes. You are assuming things will be static. There is no reason to believe that while Priscilla is training and training to get near Teresa's current level, Teresa herself will not grow even stronger.

Thus any fight - ever - between Claymore Teresa and Claymore Priscilla would have Teresa at the clear advantage. Likewise, there is no reason to assume that said clear advantage would not persist if both of them were to awaken.

--

There is an old proverb: "Like in the new year, it will be all year"
...why did this topic have to happen today of all days?