2014-02-28, 09:08 | Link #5924 |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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So, haven't read the series in like 50 chapters now ever since the Masters became the main characters and the disciples became useless and completely unimportant to the plot... Does Kenichi actually fight anymore, or is he still a sideline cheerleader getting overshadowed by the Masters, who've become the real stars, fighting the real important battles?
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2014-02-28, 09:40 | Link #5925 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: world of devilman lady
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Kenichi cannot defeat the masters of yami with his level of skill you can't expect that to happen without serious bad fairy tail style BS plot armor. The progression here is realistic while the masters distract other masters the disciples can deal with the rest
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Last edited by Yorae_paladin1; 2014-02-28 at 09:56. |
2014-02-28, 10:22 | Link #5926 | |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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2014-02-28, 14:39 | Link #5927 |
Working the bags...
Join Date: Mar 2009
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^This 100%.
As for the realistic plot progression, I call foul. They haven't taught him jack shit for hundred of chapters besides putting him into S&M devices. How's that realistic when you have all those masters around you? The series was stood on it's head a long time ago and the named should be switched to Ryozanpaku: The Mightiest Masters and the Disciple Who Just Watches... |
2014-02-28, 17:35 | Link #5928 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: world of devilman lady
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They have to build him up you can't just learn awesome moves right off the bat martial arts doesn't work that way it takes time. Especially since Kenichi does not have any natural talent. You guys want him to take on a master when such an encounter would men his death
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2014-02-28, 18:03 | Link #5929 | |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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When was the last time Kenichi had a real fight without some ambiguous ending that wasn't overshadowed by a Master fight with it? Or by Miu? It was against Ethan, wasn't it? How many hundreds of chapters was that ago? Even if you count the Tirawit fight and try to ignore the fact that Apachai's fight was the more emotional and important fight of the two, it's still been nearly 160 chapters since his last real, conclusive fight-- nearly one third of the manga. I don't count the fight against Miu as that didn't really have a conclusive ending. Kenichi learned more in the first 50 chapters of the series than he's learned in the last 200+. The pacing is completely horrible. The way the series is progressing now, Kenichi is falling further and further out of the spotlight as Yami takes over and the series is on pace to either end around 5000 chapters or when the mangaka dies, which is the more likely scenario. I think the series just got away from the author and he completely forgot his original premise for the series, so now the MC is suffering for it and it's hard to take him or the disciples seriously anymore with world-devastating plots going on enacted by people they'll never have the ability to fight. It's sad. Between this, Bleach and Naruto, I've completely lost faith in many mangaka's abilities to write a good action series as each one started out awesome, but ended up getting worse and worse as the stories dragged on.
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2014-02-28, 18:57 | Link #5931 | |
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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It's true that the manga focuses more on the master's fights lately, but that's because the series is about Kenichi as a disciple, and his position as such in the martial arts world. Kenichi is there, soaking up all the stuff his masters are doing, so one day he can join them. Frankly, I find this way of doing things refreshing, compared to most shounen series where the MC quickly becomes stronger than people that have been doing this longer than him (not that I dislike that way of doing things, but variety is the spice of life)
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2014-02-28, 19:37 | Link #5932 | |
Working the bags...
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Secondly, point out where I said I wanted him to fight master class fighters? You can't because I didn't. I said the masters have taken over the story and Kenichi has learned nothing new and his main position has been a sidelined cheerleader. That's my beef with the manga... Though I did get a laugh at it's a refreshing view to not rush the MC into being OP. You do realize that we're on chapter 559, right? The mangaka must be shooting for the other slower than snail pace, Hajime no Ippo where it takes five chapters to just go from the locker room to the ring... |
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2014-03-01, 00:31 | Link #5933 | |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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I juts don't like the direction the series has taken. Kenichi does a LOT of standing around and has barely grown in 200 chapters now. As I said, he learned more moves in his first 50 chapters than he has since the DofD arc. To me, it'd be playing a video game that starts off awesome, watching your character grow as he beats tough enemies. Then, halfway through the story, everything changes. The main antagonist is introduced and your character and his party have absolutely no hope of ever beating them, so as the story progresses you spend your time doing a few side missions and trying futility to fight, while spending the rest of the time watching cutscenes of NPCs doing all the important stuff. Kenichi may be absorbing what's going on, but that's all he's doing. He's not really actively participating in anything anymore. he's not training or learning anything new and spends most of his time watching helplessly from the sidelines. I'd just rather read a manga where the focus is on the MC being more than a narrator and observer, which is what Kenichi has turned into. The two times he's actually had any real action since Tirawit, he was overshadowed by Miu (as the arc, and much of the story has been all about her since then) and the Akira/Jenezad fight in the Okinawa arc, and in the Amusement Park arc, he was overshadowed by Takeda and Tanaka both. Sure, he brushed the cheek of a super master class who probably didn't even bother trying to dodge, relying on the help of his more powerful friend to get him there and then spent the rest of it watching helplessly from the ground as Tanaka was killed. And I don't think he's done anything at all since this arc started from what I've heard, though I can't be sure as I haven't read it since the end of the amusement park arc, which is where I lost all interest in the series. I just think setting up an opponent the hero has absolutely no chance of ever fighting as the main antagonist of the series is just a bad decision. It makes the disciples fights look completely pointless in the long run when there's world-changing battles going on between the Masters. Seems like a lot of action series are badly suffering these days. Bleach with Aizen and his random loss because the gem suddenly decides it doesn't like him anymore, Naruto with Madara becoming so overpowered that Kishimoto has stated he has no clue how the heroes can even win.... Ah well, back into exile for another six months or so. I'll check back and see if Kenichi actually gets to do more than stand around looking pretty or jobbing to master class fighters while his masters fight the actual series antagonists. I probably should drop the series completely, but I can't. It used to be one of my favorites and I'm still hoping against hope that Kenichi and the disciples will one day actually be important to the story again, instead of just observers and cannon fodder.
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2014-03-01, 01:03 | Link #5934 | |||
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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Nowadays, ever since DofD arc, in fact, Kenichi has moved from being a underdog who barely won his fights to someone who people of his rank, like Boris have to take seriously. That's amazing, given the context of the series. Kenichi no longer needs to learn brand new techniques all the time to win. He can focus on training what he does know. Quote:
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2014-03-01, 02:18 | Link #5935 |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 44
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High School football doesn't pit high school teams against NFL players like this manga does at times and High School players aren't sitting on the bench at an NFL game watching the real players play. What this manga has turned into is you've got the disciples trying to participate in the Super Bowl (Yami is the Super Bowl), which they obviously aren't good enough to do, and just like real life, people would ignore them in favor of the professional players. They're role in the whole thing is pointless.
Now, if they weren't playing the Super Bowl and instead focused on a smaller, high school level game, that'd be fine as they'd have a purpose other than being cheerleaders. Something they could really compete in. But that's not what the manga is focused on. I'd be fine with Kenichi's slower growth if the manga's main antagonists were Yomi and not Yami. Yami being the series' main antagonist is what kills it for me. I just feel Yami should be the "B" plot of the series, while Kenichi and the disciples' growth is the "A" plot, which it was for a while. Somewhere along the way that changed and the growth of the disciples became secondary to Yami. That's where the series lost its way, imo. Just my personal feelings on it. I know others will disagree.
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2014-03-01, 08:37 | Link #5936 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Perhaps its the more realistic option, but its not the more interesting. |
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2014-03-01, 09:23 | Link #5938 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
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2014-03-01, 14:44 | Link #5940 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I don't think they are going to be outnumber for long. Don't forget renka and Ma's uncle haven't show up yet. There is also the thing about Ma's wife and his two son, so they can also show you to help. At this point the masters are outnumber but if you think about it kenichi and his friends are also going to be out number by yomi so it's obvious renka is going to bring some backup since she is not with them at the moment.
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shounen |
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