[Manga] Meeting with Sasori

[Satoru]

How did Orochimaru think he can defeat Sasori? The poison is way too dangerous. Just one scratch is enough to kill. Kabuto is a medical ninja, of course. But he does not have the opportunity to come up with an anti-dote. That was possible for Sakura because she learned about the poison from Kankuro. Also, Sasori has hundreds of human puppets and his own body is invincible unless he does expose himself like he did against Chiyo and Sakura. Chiyo was the only one who could stand up to Sasori because she was another puppet master. For anyone else, it is impossible to win against him. It was a foolish attempt to try this ambush. Orochimaru and Kabuto are very lucky that Sasori is dead. They would have been killed.

[kishinfoulux]

your nuts. orochimaru is one of the strongest in the series and kabuto showed thats hes well on his way as well. im not saying it would have been easy but they definately couldve done it, just as much as sasori could have.

[MobiuS]

If Chiyo (a one foot in the coffin old senile woman) and Sakura (a pretty damn good ninja timeskip, but still not even Jounin level) could take on and subdue Sasori to the point he practically gives up, its more than evident Orochimaru AND Kabuto would be able to take him on.

Manda may not lke the taste of wood but he will snack on those puppets easily.

[Rachy]

Sasori would kill orochimaru, plain and simple .

[ri0]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Manda may not lke the taste of wood but he will snack on those puppets easily.

Yeah you only forgot the fact that manda would eat Oro for breakfast.

[Yogi]

But . . . Sasori can just make a shell of iron sand around him. Then NOTHING can penetrate the shell, not Orochimaru, not Itachi, NOTHING!!!!

Now that we put it this way, all those pro-Sasori arguments are looking kind of stupid. Orochimaru knows what Sasori can do from being on the same team as him. Orochimaru is not the type that would get into fights where he wasn't sure he would win. Hence, Sasori is not the God that many people think he is.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Yogi

But . . . Sasori can just make a shell of iron sand around him. Then NOTHING can penetrate the shell, not Orochimaru, not Itachi, NOTHING!!!!

Now that we put it this way, all those pro-Sasori arguments are looking kind of stupid. Orochimaru knows what Sasori can do from being on the same team as him. Orochimaru is not the type that would get into fights where he wasn't sure he would win. Hence, Sasori is not the God that many people think he is.

Hehehehe...Yeah..I remember that discussion...

But I agree with you on this part (I still don’t agree that is less resistant than the Gaara Defense ), It never crossed my mind Sasori have a chance against Oro, And I think the fact that Kabuto was there in order to prepare antidote if needed, Remember that Kabuto was a Sasori minion, and knowing how slick Kabuto is, he could have taken a Sample of this Venom. So the poison argument is nullified.

The 100 Puppets people say?, Oro can do a Edo Tensei, and we don’t have any idea of how many shinoby he can call at once, or he can just summon his snake, to help him out with this.

[astayanax]

If there is one thing about Orochimaru that we can say easy, is that he never goes into a fight unless he knows he can win without a shadow of a doubt. Of course, he usually let his arrogance gets the better of him anyway.

The mere fact he tagged along with Kabuto for the meeting indicates that in his eyes, he really never saw Sasori as a big threat. I am assuming he stayed hidden because he won't know beforehand if Sasori wasn't bringing backup of his own for a potential ambush (like other Atasuki members).

[Yogi]

In addition, killing Sasori isn't really important to any of his plans. He could have had Kabuto feeding him false information, which would have made Sasori an insignificant threat. The fact that he still decided to fight means that he is supermely confident of not only killing Sasori, but his ability to antagonize the Akatsuki and get away with it.

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by kishinfoulux

Orochimaru is one of the strongest in the series and kabuto showed thats hes well on his way as well.

That's good. But I was talking about risk. And against Sasori, a puppet master with the most dangerous poison, you'd better stay away.

Originally Posted by astayanax

The mere fact he tagged along with Kabuto for the meeting indicates that in his eyes, he really never saw Sasori as a big threat.

Now that's a flawed logic. If Sasori wasn't a threat, Oro would have gone there alone.

Originally Posted by MobiuS

If Chiyo (a one foot in the coffin old senile woman) and Sakura (a pretty damn good ninja timeskip, but still not even Jounin level) could take on and subdue Sasori to the point he practically gives up, its more than evident Orochimaru AND Kabuto would be able to take him on.

I think we are past that. Please don't start this debate. Chiyo and Sakura are the worst possible enemies for someone like Sasori, and this means a lot in this manga. Sakura was a human puppet in Chiyo's hands, immune to poison and capable of crushing any puppet. Chiyo taught Sasori everything, and her 10 puppets proved to be superior. It is very obvious why Sasori lost, and certainly not a sign of weakness.

Manda may not lke the taste of wood but he will snack on those puppets easily.

Nope. The puppets can easily posion the Manda, so it would be utterly useless to summon an animal.

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik

I think the fact that Kabuto was there in order to prepare antidote if needed, Remember that Kabuto was a Sasori minion, and knowing how slick Kabuto is, he could have taken a Sample of this Venom. So the poison argument is nullified.

That is pure speculation. Do you think Sasori just pulled out his tail and started pissing in a glass for Kabuto to analyse it? Besides, it was said in the manga that Sasori always comes up with completely new poison to prevent anti-dotes. He is very clever. The only reason why Sakura got the chance to make an antidote because there was a victim a few days before the fight. This is very unlikely to be the case with Kabuto and Orochimaru.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Satoru

That is pure speculation. Do you think Sasori just pulled out his tail and started pissing in a glass for Kabuto to analyse it? Besides, it was said in the manga that Sasori always comes up with completely new poison to prevent anti-dotes. He is very clever. The only reason why Sakura got the chance to make an antidote because there was a victim a few days before the fight. This is very unlikely to be the case with Kabuto and Orochimaru.

It is rather simple if Sasori used it before on anybody, Kabuto could've had an Antidote, Maybe Sasori always comes up with new poisons, but the fact remains that he repeats the use of the same poison, as he used the same poison more than once: against Sakura and Chiyo, that was BTW, the same used for Kankouro.

So the Poison is not that unbeatable trump Card (besides that he needs to sting Oro with it).

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik

It is rather simple if Sasori used it before on anybody, Kabuto could've had an Antidote, Maybe Sasori always comes up with new poisons, but the fact remains that he repeats the use of the same poison, as he used the same poison more than once: against Sakura and Chiyo, that was BTW, the same used for Kankouro.

Like I said...that was a rare opportunity because the victim was found a few days before the fight.
Notice that during this time Sasori was very busy extracting the shukaku.

So the Poison is not that unbeatable trump Card

It is, unless you want to speculate in Oro's favor.

[hokagenaruto3]

Originally Posted by astayanax

If there is one thing about Orochimaru that we can say easy, is that he never goes into a fight unless he knows he can win without a shadow of a doubt. Of course, he usually let his arrogance gets the better of him anyway.

FALSE. He only goes into a fight that he THINKS he can win.
He fought Jiraiya and Tsunade, while not knowing Jiraiya was poisoned, so the fact that he really lost that fight makes clear that his assumptions can be very wrong too eh? What if Jiraiya wasn't poisend, etc, etc.

Chiyo already admitted that the only person skilled enough to make a poison in that amount of time was Tsunade (and later Sakura).
BTW: Sasori was NOT beaten, he let himself be killed. We don't even know if he gave it all he had.

Just a funny thing: Sandaime said Oro had enough country to defeat a small village, while an entire country fell to Sasori's puppets. This may not mean much, but in both cases a generalisation was made.

Conclusion: We Don't Know

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Satoru

Like I said...that was a rare opportunity because the victim was found a few days before the fight.
Notice that during this time Sasori was very busy extracting the shukaku.

That does not change that he still repeated the use of the same poison.

Originally Posted by Satoru

It is, unless you want to speculate in Oro's favor.

Yeah, But the same goes To you, Wasn't you who started this thread using Speculations in favor of Sasori?

Even if Sasori have 100 Pupets and a poison that can Kill you, the fact remains that even a Kunai is good enough to do the Job, the problem beggins when you try to do it.

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik

Yeah, But the same goes To you, Wasn't you who started this thread using Speculations in favor of Sasori?

I didn't say that Sasori is necessary stronger, but that it is very risky to fight him. Ask the third Kazekage.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Satoru

I didn't say that Sasori is necessary stronger, but that it is very risky to fight him. Ask the third Kazekage.

WE are not talking about strenght here, we are talking about this :

Originally Posted by Satoru

Chiyo was the only one who could stand up to Sasori because she was another puppet master. For anyone else, it is impossible to win against him. It was a foolish attempt to try this ambush. Orochimaru and Kabuto are very lucky that Sasori is dead. They would have been killed.

This is not talking about risk, you are talking that in the event Oro or -Anybody- Fights against Sasori, they would’ve had been Killed, so yeah you are speculating also about Sasori.

[astayanax]

FALSE. He only goes into a fight that he THINKS he can win.
He fought Jiraiya and Tsunade, while not knowing Jiraiya was poisoned, so the fact that he really lost that fight makes clear that his assumptions can be very wrong too eh? What if Jiraiya wasn't poisend, etc, etc.

He knew Jiraiya was poisoned before he attacked him (since he and kabuto saw the failed summoned attempt). As for the earlier Tsunade matchup, that was more of an opportunity to teach Kabuto's capabilities as his 2nd in command as he did nothing to aid him. Even ignoring this, look at his statements throughout the series. When he feels he can't beat someone, he states so (as in the case of Itachi and Prime 3rd, and this is someone who would fight even if he has no arms and legs)

Chiyo already admitted that the only person skilled enough to make a poison in that amount of time was Tsunade (and later Sakura).
BTW: Sasori was NOT beaten, he let himself be killed. We don't even know if he gave it all he had.

Well Chiyo is wrong because she doesn't know about Kabuto, who is easily as skilled as Tsunade (although nowhere as experienced). Even ignoring that, Kabuto was Sasori's spy and may had have an opportunity of sampling the poison.

Just a funny thing: Sandaime said Oro had enough country to defeat a small village, while an entire country fell to Sasori's puppets. This may not mean much, but in both cases a generalisation was made.

Yes, but a few things to make note of:

- Orochimaru didn't really care about his village and as a matter of fact was merely using them as a catalyst to start a war. Even with this uncaring attitude and a few short years of training, it was powerful enough to form alliances to take out the strongest village.

- The 3rd wasn't considering Orochimaru himself; only his army.

- Sasori's puppet army is deadly as unlike Orochimaru's army, they don't have to fight you, only scratch you. Furthermore, they are all under the control of Sasori and as equally skilled whereas Orochimaru's army has the usual chuunins and such.

[Satoru]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik

This is not talking about risk, you are talking that in the event Oro or -Anybody- Fights against Sasori, they would’ve had been Killed, so yeah you are speculating also about Sasori.

Yes, that is true. But with good reason.

[Yogi]

Look, Sasori fights via wood puppets, against someone trained in Fire country. I'm pretty sure Orochimaru knows more than a few fire jutsus.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Satoru

Yes, that is true. But with good reason.

But still is speculating about Sasori, So I can speculate favoring Oro, because Oro can summom giant Snakes, and a couple of strong death Shinobys that are immune to poison or any type of Damage, Not to mention that Sasori had a weakness of Close range fighting. So Yeah, I don't think Sasori is capable of defeating Oro.

Having in mind that if Oro knew that He was weaker than Sasori, His quote about leaving Akatsuki would have been a little different, and he would’ve had not risk an attack on him.