The Raki discussion

[emu777]

Originally Posted by PGilis

If Clare is not in conditions to the task of helping Raki not to "awake", then Helen can be his second! And Deneve as third, and Miria as fourth.

The Fab-four can become Raki's newest Harem!!

But doing that, Clare will become jealous and have a monstruous thristy for blood...

MY god that would be killer, but then all the raki haters would band together to hunt down the animation team. But on the funny side, if it were true it would make the hotsprings episode that much funnier with the fab 7 all trying to get a piece of raki action all at once

[PGilis]

Originally Posted by Prongs

an another Claymore Hina series hehehehe

Thinking well, maybe a good parody to Claymore would be somewhat based in Tenchi Muyo! Just think the possibilities...

A new harem show is coming...

HAKI MUYO -- NO NEED FOR RAKI!!

Featuring:

Haki -- as the loser useless Tenchi
Priscilla -- as the Devil Princess, pirate Ryoko
Clare -- as the arrogant and mortal enemy of Ryoko, princess Aeka
Helen -- as the stupid troublemaker Mihoshi
Deneve -- as the out-of-luck partner of Helen, Kiyone
Miria -- as the big genius Washu
Jean -- as Clare's pet, Ryo-Ohki
Flora -- as the childish princess Sasami

[Hikikomori Ja nai]

Originally Posted by PGilis

Thinking well, maybe a good parody to Claymore would be somewhat based in Tenchi Muyo! Just think the possibilities...

A new harem show is coming...

HAKI MUYO -- NO NEED FOR RAKI!!

Featuring:

Haki -- as the loser useless Tenchi
Priscilla -- as the Devil Princess, pirate Ryoko
Clare -- as the arrogant and mortal enemy of Ryoko, princess Aeka
Helen -- as the stupid troublemaker Mihoshi
Deneve -- as the out-of-luck partner of Helen, Kiyone
Miria -- as the big genius Washu
Jean -- as Clare's pet, Ryo-Ohki
Flora -- as the childish princess Sasami

I think maybe you have put to much thought into this .... on the other hand maybe I haven't thought enough...hmmmm

What about a Claymore H-game?
you have to some how talk Clare and Priscilla into a threesome.... by no means limited to a threesome of course..... although claymores like Miria aren't very receptive to such talk and are quick to swing swords if you catch my drift......

[Hypervalor]

I think far in the episodes, Easley will use Raki as a hostage and his blood inside of Raki. Then Easley force Raki to become an awaken being. So Clare in the end need to kill him

[Prongs]

What noooooooooo

Raki is for Clare. the one only!

[Hypervalor]

lol, I'm sure Helen won't stop thinking Clare is doing something with Raki.

What happen if Raki become half yoma half human?

[PGilis]

Originally Posted by Hypervalor

lol, I'm sure Helen won't stop thinking Clare is doing something with Raki.

What happen if Raki become half yoma half human?

That was already discussed a lot.

Watch again episode 10. If Raki become a Claymore - that is, a half-youma half-human - he would 'awake' very fast. All the male Claymores created by the Organization became A.O.s in a very short time, because the males couldn't resist the excitation created by the impulse of Awaking, what has a very strong impulse, almost sexual.

In short, all the male Claymores masturbates until become A.O.s.

And i doubt Raki would be different... unless, like i said some posts before, Clare gives to him all the 'sexual excitement' he needs.

[Icephere]

Originally Posted by PGilis

Actually, there's a way...

Male Claymores awaked in no time because they couldn't resist the pleasure and excitation the 'awaking' process brings, right? And 'Awaking' brings both, pain and pleasure, right?

So, the only way to Raki become a Claymore and not 'awake' is his girlfriend keep him sexually "fullfilled"! That way he will not need to awake or will be too tired for that!!

And all we know Clare and her infamous 'prostitute smile' is the right girl for this misson!!

Hmm, if that were really to happen, claymore might turn into an H-game xD!
Plus, won't sexual stimulation while being a claymore might awaken you as well >_>?

[PGilis]

I don't think so.

If i remember well, it's all a question of going over the limits.

Males are naturally more thristy for power and suscetible to sexual excitement than females. And using youma power brings both plain and pleasure to the user. So the male Claymores couldn't resist the urge of using more and more of their powers until they start to awaken. That happened with many female claymores too.

But, if they don't use their powers, they will be okay. So nothing wrong in having normal sexual stimulation. The problem is, with who? The males were created first. The females, after all of them failed. And no human want to get close to a half-youma. And i would not be surprise if the Organization gave an order to Claymores never get too close of humans.

[RoryTate]

My opinion on Raki is understood within the context of humanity's reactions to Claymores.

Most humans see Claymores as something to be feared. Claymores are "silver-eyed witches" and/or harbingers of bad luck/death. The only manner in which humanity is sometimes forced to accept their presence is within a very cold and strict business relationship. You might compare Claymores to lawyers within our society...someone that no one wants to have to deal with, but a necessary evil at times. Ha! I bet not even the mangaka has thought of that analogy...Claymores = lawyers.

The organization (run by humans it appears...although they are distinctly different in appearance from most humans) sees Claymores as their property, to be used as tools in their business dealings, and as pawns whenever the need arises. There is no "parental concern" (as noted by Galatea), and the only real recognition given that Claymores might still have human feelings is the fact that the organization quickly removes troublemakers and dissension within the Claymore ranks.

Raki is the sole human that actually has a human relationship with Claymores. They are his companions, friends, and he even cares very strongly for Clare (whether this is an elder sister or lover relationship is an interesting question within the storyline). The reader/viewer should identify very strongly with Raki in this respect, and believe that if they were within the Claymore world, they too would accept and treat Claymores as humans just like he does.

[PGilis]

Actually, there was anothers.

Clare when a child was the first human to treat a Claymore - Teresa - with respect and care. And thanks to that, those villagers in that city where they both went at episode 7~8 thank Teresa for help them, too.

But unfortunately, i think they would never trust in a Claymore again, because not much after, the hunt group of #02~05 Claymores atacked Teresa there, too.

[Tempest35]

Ramble ahead. Rage against the Raki Hate Machine.

If I was in that sort of world, honestly, I probably would be wary of Claymores, but not to the extent that most people seem to be.

"Oh! But they're half-human, half-youma! They're just as bad as youma!"

Excuse me while I whack some sense into the idiot who came up with that one. Scratch that, I'll just whack them - forget common sense. I'm with Raki on that one - sure he might be a little slower in the head, but his heart is in the right place and I can't argue with a guy if he believes in something that strongly. He's weak and so are we by virtue of us being merely human, but he's trying his best.

Sure, people 'hate' him because he didn't try to be a man and kill Priscilla outright. That he let emotions affect his judgement in letting a monster off the hook that easily. That may be true but he's trying to help her. In truth, if Raki can somehow manage to pull it off with Priscilla, that would be far more impressive that Clare killing her.

[Anh_Minh]

He may be the only permanent boytoy around, but you get people who treat Claymores like humans from time to time. The Rabona people, for example, were suitably grateful, and the knife thrower treated Clare like very much of a human being of the female persuasion.

[Chudley]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

He may be the only permanent boytoy around, but you get people who treat Claymores like humans from time to time. The Rabona people, for example, were suitably grateful, and the knife thrower treated Clare like very much of a human being of the female persuasion.

These people belong to a minority group i believe. And it doesnt change the fact that Raki is one of the most admirable characters in Claymore. The Rabona people and the knife thrower were pretty much receptive to Teresa/Clare respectively out of gratitude. Raki's the only human being who dared to approach a Claymore and strike up a conversation.

[Anh_Minh]

They're a minority, yes. I was just disputing the term "sole".

[Twisted Reality]

Originally Posted by Hypervalor

lol, I'm sure Helen won't stop thinking Clare is doing something with Raki.

Look, it's hard to fit into the Claymore club without having some sort of depraved characteristic to make you seem off-kilter to the mindless herds of humanity. If anything, Clare should keep Raki around as a boy-toy or a sex slave.

Why not? Undine is on performing enhancing drugs. Ophelia likes the taste of blood. Why not the inclusion of a sex-crazed nympho?

Now that would be hot. . .
Mmmmm. . . porno. . .*Homer Simpson Drool*

[Twisted Reality]

Originally Posted by Chudley

These people belong to a minority group i believe. And it doesnt change the fact that Raki is one of the most admirable characters in Claymore. The Rabona people and the knife thrower were pretty much receptive to Teresa/Clare respectively out of gratitude. Raki's the only human being who dared to approach a Claymore and strike up a conversation.

Raki is a pretty flat character with unvarying motivation. In spite of popular belief, virtue and compassion are in no particular shortage when it comes to anime. They're obligated to exist, because without them, the popular audience would be alienated from the story. Having admirable characteristics, does not, a complex and well-rounded character make.

It is to my mind that Raki is little more than a plot-device to try and humanize the Claymores and AB's, more specifically, Clare and Priscilla. Raki is a tiny satellite around these heart-rending stories about humanity buried under the flesh of monsters. In other words, Raki is pretty much obligated to exist in Claymore, because all shounen anime are required by Japanese law to contain at least one character of pure and unadulterated idealism. A token character the audience can relate to basically.

Note that, if we were to dispense with Raki, the core story would simply be conveyed by other means. Since Claymore, is indeed, simply a story about humanity twisted into monstrous shapes and driven to morally questionable acts, blah, blah blah. Clare would still get her growth and blooming humanity by her socialization with other Claymores or with other equally disposable pieces of livestock. . .umm. . . humans. Priscilla will still be a weepy little AB with a child-like mentality and weepiness, taken-in by Isley's lordly protection.

Now, I don't particularly hate Raki, as that would be giving him more credit than a character of his caliber deserves. He's pretty much beneath my attention. I'm just saying he's equally interchangeable with any other piece of cardboard.

Now, you can love Raki all you like. I respect that. I don't question the kind of tacky, ideal love that people throw onto their household pets. . .no matter how obnoxious their affections or the pet gets. Even though that people lovingly project their weepy and heart-breaking idealized affections onto blank-slates and go out of their way to attribute noble characteristics in slavish loyalty, it is ultimately, no great sin.

Just make sure to neuter your Raki and give him daily walks. Rakis are a big responsibility.

[RoryTate]

I guess I should further explain my opinion that Raki occupies a singular position as a human within the Claymore world.

Some exceptions have been offered in the thread: the village that was attacked by bandits and young Clare were noted. However, from my viewpoint these examples only serve to reinforce the stereotype that "it is bad luck to associate with Claymores". Certainly Theresa herself warned Clare that "her world" was not fit for a child, and in the end Theresa was right...Clare ended up in many dangerous situations as a result, and finally became a Claymore (which would be all the proof needed for many humans of Clare's final "fall from grace").

The people of Rabona (Galk, etc) were also mentioned as exceptions. It is true that they did grow somewhat in their acceptance of Claymores. However, this interaction remains a cold and impersonal "business relationship", IMO. From what I saw/read, none of them will be working any time soon to change Rabona's policy of not allowing Claymores inside the city. In fact, Galk and the others probably still believe that Rabona is safer because of this practice (compare this to our world and many people's inherent belief that the presence of minorities causes more crime and deaths within their city).

Perhaps the best way to explain how Raki is different would be through a quick thought experiment. Were Raki to live in Rabona, I can see him actively working to change the practice of excluding Claymores, and to let everyone know that Claymores are like war veterans surrounded by a world of fighting and killing. They are the only ones willing to do an unpleasant job, and in turn they are ostracized for it. At the least, Raki would want to interact with Clare and other Claymores again, even if it was just to talk and see how they are doing. I can't see Galk or the others inviting Clare back just to "reminisce over old times" (as I said, theirs is a "business relationship"). Galk and the others likely still believe that they are safer not keeping company with a Claymore, without looking deeper and trying to understand the reasons behind this stereotype.

Raki is singular in the human world in that he has benefited both physically and emotionally from his association with Claymores, and he wants further interaction with them as a result. For Raki to die or truly suffer would be a very nihilistic and depressing message to come out of Claymore, IMO. It would say "don't try to fight against injustice, and always tow society's line, or you will suffer as a result".

Note: I'm not saying that the author wrote Claymore from the perspective of "disenfranchised minorities", or that this is the only way to interpret the work, but I recognize and understand this as a strong theme within the story. It is similar to Tolkien and some popular interpretations of "The Lord of the Rings"...while aspects of environmentalism can be seen within the story, Tolkien himself was very derisive of it being written as an "environmental allegory" (or allegory of any type for that matter), and rightfully so.

We have to relate to the story, and it has to relate to our world in some way, for it to be meaningful. However, turning around and saying that every story is required to have a character like this, and using it as an excuse to hate that character, is ludicrous. It is a tautology that a good story is meaningful to its readers, and that its characters can be related to, so such an argument is worthless in any manner except as a diatribe against storytelling in general.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by RoryTate

I guess I should further explain my opinion that Raki occupies a singular position as a human within the Claymore world.

Some exceptions have been offered in the thread: the village that was attacked by bandits and young Clare were noted. However, from my viewpoint these examples only serve to reinforce the stereotype that "it is bad luck to associate with Claymores". Certainly Theresa herself warned Clare that "her world" was not fit for a child, and in the end Theresa was right...Clare ended up in many dangerous situations as a result, and finally became a Claymore (which would be all the proof needed for many humans of Clare's final "fall from grace").

The people of Rabona (Galk, etc) were also mentioned as exceptions. It is true that they did grow somewhat in their acceptance of Claymores. However, this interaction remains a cold and impersonal "business relationship", IMO. From what I saw/read, none of them will be working any time soon to change Rabona's policy of not allowing Claymores inside the city. In fact, Galk and the others probably still believe that Rabona is safer because of this practice (compare this to our world and many people's inherent belief that the presence of minorities causes more crime and deaths within their city).

I disagree. If Clare was to sneak into Rabona, Galk and the others would have no trouble helping her hide and sharing drinks with her. They are her friends.

The reason they won't work toward Claymore acceptance is that there'd be no point to it. Look at the costs:
- it'd be a lot of work to convince a whole Holy City to change its own religious views. Try going to the Vatican and explain to them that out of wedlock sex is really great and that we should all practice it. See how that works for you.
- it'd undermine the authority of the Church. Meaning, theirs. They'd be shooting their own feet.

On the other hand, look at the benefits: none. The Claymores are not a minority stuck in a ghetto of Rabona. They don't want to go there. Rabona's stance makes missions there harder, so maybe they've got to pay extra. So what? They're a big, rich city. They can afford it a lot more easily than small villages can afford the usual single youma extermination. And it's not like Rabona's a youma gathering place.


Raki's more sensitive to ill-treatments of Clare, that's true. "Don't touch Clare!" "Don't make fun of Clare!". All it shows is that he's a kid. Childish outrage. Childish courage. He's certainly no political militant.

Perhaps the best way to explain how Raki is different would be through a quick thought experiment. Were Raki to live in Rabona, I can see him actively working to change the practice of excluding Claymores, and to let everyone know that Claymores are like war veterans surrounded by a world of fighting and killing. They are the only ones willing to do an unpleasant job, and in turn they are ostracized for it. At the least, Raki would want to interact with Clare and other Claymores again, even if it was just to talk and see how they are doing. I can't see Galk or the others inviting Clare back just to "reminisce over old times" (as I said, theirs is a "business relationship"). Galk and the others likely still believe that they are safer not keeping company with a Claymore, without looking deeper and trying to understand the reasons behind this stereotype.

Raki's smarter than that. He'd just leave Rabona.

Raki is singular in the human world in that he has benefited both physically and emotionally from his association with Claymores, and he wants further interaction with them as a result.

Raki's latched on Clare. While he probably sees all Claymore as "people", I seriously doubt he has any particular feelings for them. In fact, I don't remember him getting along with any of them but Clare. And, while they may be somewhat of a minority, there's no real shortage of people ready to treat Claymores as human beings. Just, human beings that are distant, and aren't interested in settling down or even in visiting regularly.

For Raki to die or truly suffer would be a very nihilistic and depressing message to come out of Claymore, IMO. It would say "don't try to fight against injustice, and always tow society's line, or you will suffer as a result".

Not any more than Jean's potential death meant you shouldn't be honorable, or Theresa's death that you shouldn't love.

Note: I'm not saying that the author wrote Claymore from the perspective of "disenfranchised minorities", or that this is the only way to interpret the work, but I recognize and understand this as a strong theme within the story. It is similar to Tolkien and some popular interpretations of "The Lord of the Rings"...while aspects of environmentalism can be seen within the story, Tolkien himself was very derisive of it being written as an "environmental allegory" (or allegory of any type for that matter), and rightfully so.

We have to relate to the story, and it has to relate to our world in some way, for it to be meaningful. However, turning around and saying that every story is required to have a character like this, and using it as an excuse to hate that character, is ludicrous. It is a tautology that a good story is meaningful to its readers, and that its characters can be related to, so such an argument is worthless in any manner except as a diatribe against storytelling in general.

Yes and no. While there are common elements, Claymores aren't really a minority the way we usually mean the word. For one thing, there aren't enough of them. For another, their way of life is just too independent of the rest of humanity. To them, normal human are little more than elements of the background. Like fauna. Or rocks. Third points: people seldom pick fights with Claymores, and they never win them.

[RoryTate]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I disagree. If Clare was to sneak into Rabona, Galk and the others would have no trouble helping her hide and sharing drinks with her. They are her friends.

I agree with your scenario...they would do as you say. However, this doesn't meet the level of friendship I was referencing. There is a difference between your scenario and actively inviting Clare back. My scenario requires that they really want to catch up, or they miss having her around. Raki would do this, whereas Galk et al would not.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Raki's more sensitive to ill-treatments of Clare, that's true. "Don't touch Clare!" "Don't make fun of Clare!". All it shows is that he's a kid. Childish outrage. Childish courage. He's certainly no political militant.

Good point! Children are more apt to question the world because they haven't yet been indoctrinated into its prejudices. However, because young girls and boys aren't aware of politics yet, their opinions may actually have more merit than most. Ignorance and innocence may go hand in hand, but a child's innocence when confronted with racism, hatred, etc, are worthy in teaching us more about the reasons for our own adult(?) reactions.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Raki's smarter than that. He'd just leave Rabona.

Yes, that is certainly the more reasonable choice, and Raki would do well to consider it. However...

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Not any more than Jean's potential death meant you shouldn't be honorable, or Theresa's death that you shouldn't love.

I disagree very strongly here. Clare has had great difficulty in dealing with Theresa's death, although Irene did a good job in explaining the belief that a happier, caring Theresa who lived a shorter life, was preferable to an aloof, unhappy Theresa who may have survived for a longer time. Although who can say? Maybe if Clare didn't meet her, Theresa could have become happy through some other means, and still remain alive? This is a complex value judgment, full of uncertainties and unknown causalities. While I generally side with Irene on this, I still think it is a difficult question, and people will have many different opinions on it.

However, should Raki die then I think Clare would have to seriously ask the question of whether Claymores have any right to interact with humans on a personal level...to be "human" at all. Theresa's story highlights the fact that you can't be a human in a vacuum. Yet, if a pattern of misery and death is what always results from such interactions, then Clare and all Claymores should definitely avoid humans, for the benefit of both groups. Raki's death or suffering would immediately establish this pattern, and I don't believe anyone half-way rational within the story could argue otherwise...hence my use of the word "nihilistic".

The fate of Jeane does not apply here, because she is a Claymore, and there is no suggestion within the story that Claymores cannot interact deeply within their own kind, forming friendships, acting honourably, and the like. However, there is a strong, underlying question in the tale of whether Claymores and humans can live together...that is the conflict brought to the fore by Raki's character. And the decision about it still lies in the balance of his life.