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Old 2019-08-23, 11:01   Link #3721
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Unless he has it multiple times, he has it some time after he has sex with Sakura the first time. Between said sex and dream, he saw her shadow do that static thing and tried to not notice.
I must have mixed up the order then. I saw a screenshot of it just before watching the movie and that's what probably why. Still not sure why they gave him white hair, but I suppose that's not important.
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Old 2019-08-31, 22:32   Link #3722
Mad Pierrot
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I watched the movie. I noticed they tried trimming some content like Sakura's reaction Shirou's arm, Rin and Sakura becoming closer faster, among others. Still, it was quite a good movie. The scene where Gilgamesh attacks Sakura was brutal as heck.

In regards to the relationship between Shirou and Sakura, I can see why some people acted weird in terms of Sakura's history with.... you know what. Still, Shirou's emotional support regardless of her past seems to have made it the relationship quite appealing. The fight scenes were quite amazing, especially Saber vs Berserker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I must have mixed up the order then. I saw a screenshot of it just before watching the movie and that's what probably why. Still not sure why they gave him white hair, but I suppose that's not important.
Maybe the white hair is a symbolism of Shirou staying true to his dreams, thus becoming the "heroic spirit" Archer who hates himself.
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Old 2019-09-06, 06:36   Link #3723
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Why would Archer have memories of killing Sakura?
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Old 2019-09-06, 06:53   Link #3724
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Possibility 1: This isn't the first time Archer has been summoned to the HGW and has had to deal with a Sakura who's gone insane. As a Counter Guardian who exists outside of time and is summoned endlessly to resolve disasters, he may of even encountered it more than once. Encountering this scenario sparked a memory of it.

Possibility 2: The unknown "Route" that Archer originally went through had a series of events that forced him into a situation where Sakura had to be put down.
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Old 2019-09-06, 08:02   Link #3725
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I mean... With how vague they're being I can't entirely discount that. I thought Nasu at some point mentioned that Archer went through a series of events roughly similar to the Fate route though.

That being said I can't entirely discount that.

However possibility 1 is kinda weird since heroic spirits should have no memory of being summoned before.
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Old 2019-09-06, 08:05   Link #3726
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Well in the FATE route Sakura is more or less ignored and "left to her fate".

It's unlikely it was a happy one.
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Old 2019-09-06, 08:46   Link #3727
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Depends, since she drops out early and never absorbs any of the servants, she doesn't become the grail at the very least. And she's still the legitimate heir to the Matou household, so anything can happen really.
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Old 2019-09-06, 09:01   Link #3728
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Also Shinji is dead and the Grail is gone (so Zouken doesn't care anymore), so she's basically free to do whatever she wants.
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Old 2019-09-06, 11:47   Link #3729
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Why would Archer have memories of killing Sakura?
Archer is the only servant that is shown to know about the shadow, meaning he's most likely faced it before. But I guess that if he had known it was Sakura, he would have killed her, knowing how dangerous she was.

I really hope we'll get a movie/LN/whatever about Archer's life one day. There are a lot of mysteries surrounding it.
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Old 2019-09-06, 16:39   Link #3730
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Also Shinji is dead and the Grail is gone (so Zouken doesn't care anymore), so she's basically free to do whatever she wants.
The greater grail was destroyed about 10 years after the fate route by waver and rin. Zouken has plenty of time sadly to continue to torment Sakura. Shidou was left pining for Saber and probably spent a lot of time training and wondering. That means Sakura didnít have him as a pillar of support
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Old 2019-09-06, 17:02   Link #3731
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
The greater grail was destroyed about 10 years after the fate route by waver and rin. Zouken has plenty of time sadly to continue to torment Sakura. Shidou was left pining for Saber and probably spent a lot of time training and wondering. That means Sakura didnít have him as a pillar of support
Fate Route Shirou is canonically the one who surpasses Archer and reaches Avalon, so he wasn't exactly "pining" for her. If Zouken was still hurting Sakura Shirou would have dealt with him.

Especially since there's no way in hell Waver and Rin could have beaten him with the grail on the line.
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Old 2019-09-06, 18:30   Link #3732
Kanon
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Fate Route Shirou is canonically the one who surpasses Archer and reaches Avalon, so he wasn't exactly "pining" for her. If Zouken was still hurting Sakura Shirou would have dealt with him.

Especially since there's no way in hell Waver and Rin could have beaten him with the grail on the line.
I heard Nasu said in a recent interview Saber herself never reached Avalon and therefore Last episode is not canon (Takeuchi was flabbergasted). He changes his mind about stuff all the time so I can believe it. It'd be nice if someone had a source though.
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Old 2019-09-06, 19:13   Link #3733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
If Zouken was still hurting Sakura Shirou would have dealt with him.
Just like he dealt with him all those years prior? If he doesn't know, he can't do anything about it.

Quote:
Especially since there's no way in hell Waver and Rin could have beaten him with the grail on the line.
I mean, it's your word against Nasu's. It's doubtful it was just 2v1 though, since if I recall the wording was that it was basically another war (without Servants since it wasn't a "grail war").
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Old 2019-09-06, 22:56   Link #3734
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I heard Nasu said in a recent interview Saber herself never reached Avalon and therefore Last episode is not canon (Takeuchi was flabbergasted). He changes his mind about stuff all the time so I can believe it. It'd be nice if someone had a source though.
I'd call shenanigans on that one unless whoever said it linked the interview.

There was an interview when he said it wasn't the original idea, but he added it in to placate Takeuchi.
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Old 2019-09-07, 20:27   Link #3735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post

I really hope we'll get a movie/LN/whatever about Archer's life one day. There are a lot of mysteries surrounding it.
From what I read, the actual visual novel was going to have another what if scenario where we see how Shirou becomes Archer but it wasn't possible to show it in the game due to time constraints and apparent memory issues.
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Old 2019-09-10, 06:18   Link #3736
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Whether the greater grail exists or not, the grail war is still over. Zouken himself expresses that he'd give up if this last attempt didn't work out, since he's literally out of options. Sakura also had a good ending at the end of UBW, and that's the only one where Shinji lives.

Zouken is reaching the end of his already extended lifespan as well.

Not to mention literally anything can happen, but she won't become a man eating monster.
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Old 2019-09-10, 18:18   Link #3737
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Well pretty much the only good thing happens to her is Shinji is scared straight in UBW. None of her other abuse ends.
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Old 2019-09-11, 05:56   Link #3738
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Archer is the only servant that is shown to know about the shadow, meaning he's most likely faced it before. But I guess that if he had known it was Sakura, he would have killed her, knowing how dangerous she was.

I really hope we'll get a movie/LN/whatever about Archer's life one day. There are a lot of mysteries surrounding it.
He didn't. Nasu answered this question already, he has just knowledge of curses like the Shadow, not exactly what the Shadow was or its connection to Sakura. He also is awkwardly silent about Sakura's fate in other routes, answering to believe your dreams, but that answer doesn't sound all too hopeful.

Anyway, I was reading up this thread early comments and hooh they seem to operate under the misunderstanding the Shadow was all-powerful around Servants when in the VN, it needed Assassin and later Saber Alter to distract its targets, to ambush Servants and was scared of Gilgamesh. The actual reason why it went on a rampage after Gilgamesh was slain was because it didn't have a reason to hide from him anymore. There's no scene it absorbed his weapons, or confronts him, the Shadow sneaks behind Gilgamesh when he thinks Sakura is dead and quickly attacks before he can react with his back turned to it. And Gilgamesh almost broke out Aliens-Style by Nasu's account, if the Shadow had been slower, it and Sakura would have both died for good. The movie changed a bit here and there to make it more impressive because we don't have access to the psychological fear from Shirou's viewpoint and we need a more hopeless tangible powerful enemy and display, so is understandable. But, if (untainted) Saber had used Excalibur on it, it would have evaporated without an issue, holy swords are anathema for curses. Being conceptually strong against something doesn't mean you're all-powerful. Otherwise, all Anti-Unit NPs would work on their targets.
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Last edited by Thess; 2019-09-11 at 06:14.
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Old 2019-09-14, 09:59   Link #3739
Jaden
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...made me wonder once again how Saber and Shirou managed to take 7 of Berserker's lives with just a Caliburn copy in Fate. Saber Alter had to excaliblast the shit out of him several times (I didn't count) before finally taking him down.
I wondered about the same thing ever since the VN. On the face of things, the explanation is that Caliburn is just that strong. But that is never visually conveyed, and anyway it's supposed to be more of a ceremonial object than an overpowered weapon of war.

If Nasu just came out and said Caliburn is some kind of conceptual cheat weapon that denies resurrection, I'd be okay with this. But I've searched, and there's no hint of anything like that.

It's a plot hole.
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Old 2019-09-14, 10:25   Link #3740
Kanon
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I've been wondering for that long as well, the movie just reminded me of it. But since it was pointed out to me she only used an excaliblast at the very end, maybe Excalibur is capable of taking several lives at once too? Saber never got the opportunity to use its full power on him in other routes.
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