Sword Art Online - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by Oroboro

Kirito is a good person, but he's no squeaky clean paladin either.

Don't forget, he straight up murdered a guy back in ep10

Ye I think many people forget about this fact.

He isn't a hero, he doesn't always choose the "right" action.

He is more or less a normal boy who has his obvious faults and who tends to be pretty emotional even with his choices.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Esebian

Ye I think many people forget about this fact.

He isn't a hero, he doesn't always choose the "right" action.

He is more or less a normal boy who has his obvious faults and who tends to be pretty emotional even with his choices.

Ummmmm, you mean the psychotic, murdering sociopath who killed a guy right in front of Kirito, proceeded to try and kill him slowly while enjoying every moment of it, and then finally Kirito put him down when he tried to kill Asuna?

Not exactly the best example of Kirito's "faults." You'd never see a guy get criticized for this in real life, so I really find it hard to understand how you can hold this against him in a TV show.

[Rising Dragon]

Considering Sugou's actions... I know a lot of people didn't like how he was portrayed, but it made me realize something. While it's definitely exaggerated in media, there are a number of people in Japan who have such tendencies and creepy fetishes, etc. And Japan culturally rarely does anything about it people with mental disorders and such, as families see it as shameful if it comes out in the open or the like.

So Sugou being a closet freak with such a huge, huge inferiority complex and sick tendencies of rape and such? Not exactly unbelievable for me...

[Dengar]

To me Sugou never came across as somene who can't possibly exist in real life.

Because clearly they can, and they do.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Dengar

To me Sugou never came across as somene who can't possibly exist in real life.

Because clearly they can, and they do.

Quote for truth.

They're called rapists, and they are not pleasant. Sugou's disgusting-ness is far from unrealistic.

[novalysis]

I personally found Sugou's reckoning utterly hilarious.

However, I do agree: anyone who thinks that someone like Sugou is unrealistic is woefully naive.

[Klashikari]

What is actually unrealistic is how exaggerated and shoehorned Sugou was characterized so far: it is hard to take a character like that seriously due to his position and role, where the series hardly portray him in reasonable evil position.

You can have mass murderers and all to be much more disgusting than the likes of Sugou, but that does not mean he becomes magically credible. at all.
His antics were hamfisted so many times it is just a glaring poor way to force "hatred" from the audience, instead of really making the character as a real antagonist.

In a way, the presentation and actions done by Sugou are what make him hilariously bad, to the point it is beyond parody. However, real humans may be even worse than him in term of creepy/evil aspect, but that it is another story.

[Keroko]

Why are we assuming Sugou is dead in the first place? Do recall the Amusphere has safeties installed. I imagine even with pain reduction to zero Sugou will be merely be quite hurt because of ghost pain, perhaps paralyzed. But death? Doubtful. Such safeties tend to be hardware, not software.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

OTOH, in SAO that wasn't quite the case. They had to use a menu to change clothes. I wonder if Sugou had that clothing thing developed specifically for his little rape fantasies? Wouldn't surprise me...

Cloth physics were in SAO as well, we see multiple examples of users interacting with clothing. The reason they went to the menu to change clothing is better explained by the inventory being non-physical. You have to enter the inventory if you want to access your items.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Esebian

Ye I think many people forget about this fact.

He isn't a hero, he doesn't always choose the "right" action.

He is more or less a normal boy who has his obvious faults and who tends to be pretty emotional even with his choices.

Exactly. That's why I freakin' love him.

[Rising Dragon]

Chances are he's not "dead" dead at least right away. I would very much imagine that with the pain absorber turned all the way off, effectively making it "real" for his mind ending with a sword through the brain, he would effectively be braindead.

And if he's not put on life support or something he'd end up actually dead shortly afterwards.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Cloth physics were in SAO as well, we see multiple examples of users interacting with clothing. The reason they went to the menu to change clothing is better explained by the inventory being non-physical. You have to enter the inventory if you want to access your items.

This is actually explained in the second DVD special. Items in the inventory has to be materialised by using the menu, while items in the pouches can be gotten directly by hand. So unless you can fit your clothes into your pouches so will you need to use the menu to handle them.

[Arjento]

I don't see a episode 26 on ANN.

I don't read the manga, but it looks like the story continues.

Why is this stopping at 25?

[kyp275]

ep. 25 will conclude the fairy dance arc, there are a lot more stuff after this, but you will have to wait for a future season or two to cover them.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Chances are he's not "dead" dead at least right away. I would very much imagine that with the pain absorber turned all the way off, effectively making it "real" for his mind ending with a sword through the brain, he would effectively be braindead.

And if he's not put on life support or something he'd end up actually dead shortly afterwards.

The only possible way to die from pain would actually be due to intense and severe acute pain that would lead to a heart stroke, assuming the shock itself is violent enough. And I doubt it would be working since the nerve system stimulii are intercepted by the nervegear/Amusphere.

Otherwise, no you cannot be braindead due to pain whatsoever. At most, it would make you pass out, but it deals no brain damage as far as it goes.
Pain itself is a response of the organism from a existing or potential threat (injury and so forth), and considering it is simulated by the interface, it means it probaly just stimulates the nociceptors, nothing more.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Arjento

I don't see a episode 26 on ANN.

I don't read the manga, but it looks like the story continues.

Why is this stopping at 25?

Just for clarification, the story isn't continuing in the manga. You're thinking of the light novels, which have a couple more arcs after Fairy Dance; in manga format, you only have a completed manga of the Aincrad arc, an ongoing (I believe) manga for Fairy Dance, and a series of 4-komas.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Games are consistently improving their imitation of realism. Even with current day games we already have the technology to simulate waves if a person hits water and clothing getting wet and drying up. Objects breaking realistically is a technology that has been around for the past five years in video games and realistic cloth physics is nothing new either. The only reason we haven't seen much real-time cloth interaction in video games yet is because most games don't demand the technology. The advent of Virtual Reality would provide the motivation for this interaction and jump it's advancement.

Game technology advances at an insane rate. Just look at the games of 2002 and compare them to the games of 2012. Given that both realistic clothing and realistic molecular interaction already exists, seeing clothing being fully interactive in ten years when the technology that gives a need for this arrives is not as far fetched as you make it sound.

The mindset of changing entertainment into an experience especially in video games is not something I've found particularly necessary or something urgent to be implemented. You don't need to feel like you're actually there yourself in whatever tale is being told in order to sympathize and interact with the world and other people being featured in it. Just being an omniscient being observing it all or temporarily controlling a single character with their own defined personality can just as well influence your own mind and emotions.

And if realism was an important thing, that doesn't take into account people's still existent attachment and adoration of games from the 8-bit and 16-bit eras where it all was incredibly simplistic. Realism was non-existent in games 20 to 30 years ago and people still love games from those time periods.

Technological innovation is important, but I don't think there's any rush to be making entertainment into more than it has to be. There are much higher priorities for the advancement of human civilization.

That's your opinion. Don't state it like a fact. I didn't consider it deus ex machina in the least. In fact, I thought it made sense. It was so freaking simple (using Kayaba's account)....yet nobody thought of it. I loved that.

No, it's a Deus ex Machina. Sure using Kayaba's account makes sense on the surface, but was there any indication of how Kirito managed to gain access to it? Was there any sort of foreshadowing that Kayaba's "echo" was still lingering in ALO's data? No it didn't, it came out of nowhere, so that's called a Deus ex Machina.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

That's your opinion. Don't state it like a fact. I didn't consider it deus ex machina in the least. In fact, I thought it made sense. It was so freaking simple (using Kayaba's account)....yet nobody thought of it. I loved that.

They didn't show Kirito inputting the password, but it's not like it was just some open account that anyone can access just by using the Heathcliff ID tag. It was a complete deus ex machina since Kayaba came from nowhere to give Kirito his login ID.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Technological innovation is important, but I don't think there's any rush to be making entertainment into more than it has to be. There are much higher priorities for the advancement of human civilization.

This is of course true, but I think there's enough scientists in the world that this isn't an either/or situation, and that research into virtual reality doesn't mean subtracting research from somewhere else; and, of course, one thing to remember is that full-immersion virtual reality is being developed for many more reasons than just videogaming. It would be the ultimate training tool for many professions (especially high-stakes professions like being in the medical field), for instance.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

The mindset of changing entertainment into an experience especially in video games is not something I've found particularly necessary or something urgent to be implemented. You don't need to feel like you're actually there yourself in whatever tale is being told in order to sympathize and interact with the world and other people being featured in it. Just being an omniscient being observing it all or temporarily controlling a single character with their own defined personality can just as well influence your own mind and emotions.

And if realism was an important thing, that doesn't take into account people's still existent attachment and adoration of games from the 8-bit and 16-bit eras where it all was incredibly simplistic. Realism was non-existent in games 20 to 30 years ago and people still love games from those time periods.

Technological innovation is important, but I don't think there's any rush to be making entertainment into more than it has to be. There are much higher priorities for the advancement of human civilization.

Yes, realism isn't a necessary core element to enjoy games. However that has nothing to do with the fact that a great community of game developers have consistently shown their dedication to making video games as realistic as possible, nor with the fact that many of the technologies required to make clothing interaction possible already exist.

And while many people enjoy games from the olden days, there are also many praising the advancement of realism in video games. It is not uncommon for these to be the same people either.

And while there are much higher priorities for the advancement of human civilization, that does not, will not and never will change the desire and motivation for people to advance technology.

Come to think of it... what do any of these points have to do with the fact that the show's clothing physics aren't nearly as far away from reality as you think?

[SilverSyko]

This is of course true, but I think there's enough scientists in the world that this isn't an either/or situation, and that research into virtual reality doesn't mean subtracting research from somewhere else; and, of course, one thing to remember is that full-immersion virtual reality is being developed for many more reasons than just videogaming. It would be the ultimate training tool for many professions (especially high-stakes professions like being in the medical field), for instance.

Again call me skeptic, but even if a virtual reality system like the one in SAO is conceived in the next 20 or so years, I seriously doubt it'll be something the general public is going to have easy access to for another hundred or so. It'll probably be something strictly limited to governmental or institutional use like the examples you give.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Yes, realism isn't a necessary core element to enjoy games. However that has nothing to do with the fact that a great community of game developers have consistently shown their dedication to making video games as realistic as possible, nor with the fact that many of the technologies required to make clothing interaction possible already exist.

And while many people enjoy games from the olden days, there are also many praising the advancement of realism in video games. It is not uncommon for these to be the same people either.

I realize this. I just don't count myself as one of them.

Come to think of it... what do any of these points have to do with the fact that the show's clothing physics aren't nearly as far away from reality as you think?

Virtual clothing is only one aspect of the general idea which is that I don't like it when games are too realistic. Looking and moving in a realistic way is one thing, but being able to tear it off another player is going too far and largely inappropriate in a real-world sense. Such a thing could never be implemented in any sort of game especially an MMO if you don't want rating boards and various other organizations cracking down on you hard.