Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero, Episode 16.

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[Ichinotachi]

The entire t-rex fight was done incredibly fast, I honestly expected a bit more but I can see why they did that, the arrival of Fitoria and her business with the heroes is way more relevant than the t-rex problem.

Loved Fitoria's design and her VA is perfect, it was a good info dump about the other hourglasses and heroes around the world. As always Malty is behind the whole church situation, not that is surprising, after all this is a current thing here.

[FlareKnight]

The Fitoria stuff was the most interesting so kind of nice they rushed up to that. Shows how darn useless the current heroes are overall. A filolial raised by previous heroes is so far beyond them it isn't even funny. Even Naofumi isn't there and he's abusing a cursed power that can only blow up in his face sooner or later. This country is clearly dropping the ball on properly informing the heroes about their own potential and how to reach it.

Her conclusion that you need to wipe out the heroes isn't all that far off the deep end either. Wipe them out and then summon a fresh batch. If Naofumi and the others can't line up together that's it. The only choices there are either total annihilation of the world or clearing the slate on the heroes. The current heroes hit their wall with the current wave and don't seem close to making the necessary breakthroughs. They can't even work as a cohesive unit.

Obviously the issues are big and it's hardly Naofumi's fault they can't cooperate. But if he's given up on it then the end is already upon them. No matter how much he abuses that cursed shield...that alone isn't going to be enough.

[BWTraveller]

Don't know if she's "behind" the situation, but she certainly knows about it and doesn't want them to know.

And this week we get confirmation that the King screwed the other nations over. Melromarc was supposed to summon only one hero and leave the others for other nations so that they'd all have heroes to attend to local Waves, as the hourglasses don't detect Waves outside their territory I guess. I could imagine some potential benefits to doing this, as it strips the other nations of their defense against the catastrophe, but at the same time the Waves don't seem to be enough to immediately cripple those nations, meaning instead we've got at least three neighboring nations furious that Melromarc basically robbed them.

[The Green One]

Well this must be why the Queen is stuck abroad. If Melomarc has gone against the rules and summoned all the Heroes and kept them in their country and left the rest of the world of fend for themselves I imagine the other country rulers are PISSED.

Still though, Fitoria is saying that the Heroes mustn't fight amongst themselves. Fine then but Nafoumi says they don't want to work things out with them, at the very least the Spear Hero seems to be a lost cause, only really Ren seems to be any realistically reasonable, and only just barely. So then Fitoria says, "Oh they won't work with you then? Fine, I'll kill you all." Well that's hardly fair now is it? Nafoumi getting killed because the other three are being asshats. Well maybe we'll get a more in depth explanation next week.

[Ichinotachi]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Still though, Fitoria is saying that the Heroes mustn't fight amongst themselves. Fine then but Nafoumi says they don't want to work things out with them, at the very least the Spear Hero seems to be a lost cause, only really Ren seems to be any realistically reasonable, and only just barely. So then Fitoria says, "Oh they won't work with you then? Fine, I'll kill you all." Well that's hardly fair now is it? Nafoumi getting killed because the other three are being asshats. Well maybe we'll get a more in depth explanation next week.

How is that fair? Use logic.

The situation here is not about saving 4 irrelevant lifes while millions can die thanks to the waves, Fitoria is very old and she saw countless fights before, even Naofumi understood that. This whole situation is about survival and if the current heroes refuse to work together and use their whole potential to stop the waves then the only option is to get rid of them and summon 4 more that can get the job done.

[The Green One]

So as long as it's legitimately for the sake of the world and saving it's people I could unilaterally kill you. I mean as long as it's to protect the world and doing it would legitimately help protect it, it can't be helped right? Would you be able to calmly accept that if you were told that? I don't think I would be able to if it was me.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by The Green One

So then Fitoria says, "Oh they won't work with you then? Fine, I'll kill you all." Well that's hardly fair now is it? Nafoumi getting killed because the other three are being asshats. Well maybe we'll get a more in depth explanation next week.

Nope. She's saying that not only because the other three are being asshats, but because Naofumi himself has given up on even trying. It seemed that Naofumi's unwillingness to even try was the final nail in the coffin.


Anyway...

Melty: I feel too guilty to eat.

Naofumi: Same here. <continues eating>


Also: Dragon tail soup. Feels like a play on Tohru's meals (Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid).


Learned a lot from Fitoria. She was summoned several hundred years ago, and guards the ruins of a civilization that the very first heroes defended, but was already fallen by the time she was born. So the hero legacy goes back a very long time. Still not sure how frequently these events happen, though.

Speaking of which, that's a very interesting archive that Ren and Itsuki found. And they're acknowledging that Naofumi was right. And of course Mein is following them, somehow, and is on the side of trying to keep the heroes from finding out the truth. Of course.

Though this does have implications about Mein's behavior towards Naofumi. There's been multiple layers of reasons for her behavior, but this seems to suggest she's part of a conspiracy to deliberately prevent the heroes from saving the world. It's really twisted, and I still can't see the end game goal that would cause someone to choose this route.

And, while it may seem that Mein has focused solely on Naofumi and Motoyasu, I'm reminded of the "guild" offering jobs to Ren and Itsuki. I was wondering a while back why such a guild would send Itsuki to depose a king of a foreign kingdom, but now it feels like it was a deliberate attempt to keep them controlled and focused away from asking uncomfortable questions. Like Mein is only in charge of managing Motoyasu and Naofumi, while Ren and Itsuki are managed by another party.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Well this must be why the Queen is stuck abroad. If Melomarc has gone against the rules and summoned all the Heroes and kept them in their country and left the rest of the world of fend for themselves I imagine the other country rulers are PISSED.

Still though, Fitoria is saying that the Heroes mustn't fight amongst themselves. Fine then but Nafoumi says they don't want to work things out with them, at the very least the Spear Hero seems to be a lost cause, only really Ren seems to be any realistically reasonable, and only just barely. So then Fitoria says, "Oh they won't work with you then? Fine, I'll kill you all." Well that's hardly fair now is it? Nafoumi getting killed because the other three are being asshats. Well maybe we'll get a more in depth explanation next week.

If the situation is so bad that the heroes can't work together, then they need a new set of heroes. The king already said they can only do the summoning again if all the heroes bite the dust, so she wants to kill the current heroes and try again. Not saying her the whole thing is good or fair, but for someone as detached as her the logic makes sense

[frodonk]

WHY'D I EVEN HAVE TO FEED THIS KFC FARM? Whoever subbed this episode was having a lot of fun with the translations

Also, that one big turkey! The previous shield hero didn't raise her probably, but looks like there's one hero in every generation that ends up with a pet turkey who then becomes the queen turkey eventually.

Finally, some answers! I like this episode, they've just resolved that question of why they're trying very hard to keep Nao inside that country's borders.

The queen hasn't been confirmed to be in another country so that's still up in the air.

The previous heroes were confirmed to be around "centuries ago", so that confirms that stories were handed down about them, and most of the unacceptable stuff were locked away in a vault by the church, much like how a certain real life religion convened a council centuries ago to establish what is and isn't canon about their faith

As for the turkey queen's statement that the heroes should be cooperating with each other instead of infighting, the premise was that the weapons were supposed to repel each other, (I remember this from ep1) looks like that was false as well.

But then again, there's those stuff that I got confused about (again!)

I've always wondered why this particular country's the only one who summoned the heroes, but I thought that was because the wave happened only to this country in particular and that the rest of the world wasn't experiencing this problem.

As the turkey queen revealed this week, the summoning of the heroes was supposed to be 1 for each country, so that they could deal with the waves in other areas as well, she also told us that the heroes were supposed to work together, not fight each other or else she'll just kill them because they're useless, that's ... odd:

1. Why try to lessen your fighting force by killing the quarreling heroes? I thought she said she knew she wouldn't have the strength to fight eventually, so what would killing the heroes who doesn't get along with each other accomplish? They may not like each other, but at least they're still fighting the waves!

She specifically said that the heroes are fighting among themselves instead of fighting the waves, this isn't true! They've fought for 2 waves now!

2. If the heroes were supposed to be summoned per country as the turkey queen said, then what's the purpose of cooperating with each other when they're supposed to be far apart? Why is it a non-negotiable thing for the turkey queen for the heroes to get along with each other when in the ideal scenario they wouldn't even be in the same country??

If we're to answer this by saying that the turkey queen was under the impression that they were not fighting the wave but rather each other, then it kind of makes sense, but again, the turkey queen's statement that the heroes not fighting the waves is definitely not true, they just didn't know that the waves are appearing in other areas as well.

3. How come that if the waves are happening all over the world, this is the first time we've heard about it? I don't think the king is powerful enough to prevent the rumors of casualties from waves in other countries from spreading in the capital, and I'm sure Agil would've told the shield hero that as well since the 4 heroes weren't even around when the first wave hit!

The entire kingdom can't be under the impression that the waves only happen inside their borders, especially those refugees from the other kingdoms shown earlier!

Originally Posted by Ichinotachi

How is that fair? Use logic.

The situation here is not about saving 4 irrelevant lifes while millions can die thanks to the waves, Fitoria is very old and she saw countless fights before, even Naofumi understood that. This whole situation is about survival and if the current heroes refuse to work together and use their whole potential to stop the waves then the only option is to get rid of them and summon 4 more that can get the job done.

This only works if the turkey queen can summon another set of heroes herself. There's this idea that the ritual to summon heroes isn't as simple as killing the summoned ones when you don't like them and then get another set, if it was then Naofumi would've been dead long ago by being a competent shield hero.

EDIT: I've just realized why they can't easily replace the heroes, or why not just kill Naofumi and get another shield hero, that's because other countries might beat them to it!

[Ichinotachi]

Originally Posted by frodonk

This only works if the turkey queen can summon another set of heroes herself. There's this idea that the ritual to summon heroes isn't as simple as killing the summoned ones when you don't like them and then get another set, if it was then Naofumi would've been dead long ago by being a competent shield hero.

EDIT: I've just realized why they can't easily replace the heroes, or why not just kill Naofumi and get another shield hero, that's because other countries might beat them to it!

If she said that they need to summon new heroes if the current ones can't work together to go against the waves as a group like they should be, then she's saying it because she can probably do it. Removing Naofumi is not going to fix the problem with the 4 heroes, in this episode Fitoria said that she knows what's going on with the heroes and that she understand the problem, if that's true then Fitoria knows only Naofumi is working his ass off to fight the waves while the other 3 aren't even using their full power for stupid reasons, just look at archer and spear and their mindset when it comes to these fights.

As I said before, this is just matter of choosing the lesser evil, or kill the current useless set of heroes and get new ones that can get the job done or just let a huge amount of innocent people die because of the waves.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by frodonk

Also, that one big turkey! The previous shield hero didn't raise her probably, but looks like there's one hero in every generation that ends up with a pet turkey who then becomes the queen turkey eventually.

Only if it's several hundred years per generation. That's how long Fitoria says she's been alive. Sounds like it's moderately uncommon for this to happen.

Even if it does happen semi-regularly, it only means that the heroes raise a queen filorial candidate. Fitoria herself has been the queen for hundreds of years. The episode made a point of that, in that she's not merely carrying on the name (with the queen being replaced periodically), but is the actual one from history.

Originally Posted by frodonk

2. If the heroes were supposed to be summoned per country as the turkey queen said, then what's the purpose of cooperating with each other when they're supposed to be far apart? Why is it a non-negotiable thing for the turkey queen for the heroes to get along with each other when in the ideal scenario they wouldn't even be in the same country??

Remember that they get teleported to the Wave by the hourglass. Also remember that Naofumi didn't get the timer to the next Wave until he visited the hourglass for the first time. My guess is that you have to 'register' at each hourglass in order for it to be able to send you to the Waves that happen in the country it's located in.

Thus each hero needs to register with each hourglass so that he can be summoned by that hourglass into that country when needed. So all the heroes can still fight together in each Wave, but between Waves they can individually work on fixing problems within each country.

Originally Posted by frodonk

3. How come that if the waves are happening all over the world, this is the first time we've heard about it? I don't think the king is powerful enough to prevent the rumors of casualties from waves in other countries from spreading in the capital, and I'm sure Agil would've told the shield hero that as well since the 4 heroes weren't even around when the first wave hit!

If Fitoria is strong enough to handle Waves on her own, and she's traveling around taking care of the ones that the heroes aren't getting to, then that type of rumor wouldn't spread as you suggest.

[Kanon]

Sakura Tange! Always a treat to hear her.

There were some bits of animation that looked really damn good in this episode. Made up for Fitoria and the T-Rex being CGI, and even it was actually pretty good CGI. The studio has been doing a great job.

What's the lifespan of a filolial again? Fitoria implied she's dozens of times older than that but I'm not sure how old exactly that makes her. Probably close to a thousand years, I guess. I don't think we should blame the heroes for being so much weaker than her, as she's been around way longer than them. Back when she was in her hero's party, she probably wasn't that strong. Naofumi's party also hasn't had an opportunity to do a class upgrade, making them weaker than they should be. Speaking of which, I've been wondering what happens to their XP in the meantime? Do they get nothing anymore when killing monsters or is it getting stored up?

I can't say I can fault Fitoria's logic. She did try to talk and give Naofumi a chance, and he's proven himself completely unwilling to do what should be done for the sake of world. He didn't leave her with a lot of options. I'm pretty sure he's going to have second thoughts next week though
That was probably her intention when she announced his death sentence, instead of just killing him outright. The way I see it, she's giving him another chance.

Originally Posted by frodonk

EDIT: I've just realized why they can't easily replace the heroes, or why not just kill Naofumi and get another shield hero, that's because other countries might beat them to it!

It was explained that the summoning can only be done once ALL four heroes are dead. If Melromarc wanted to get another shield hero, they'd have to kill the other three heroes who have proven themselves easy to manipulate, so it's not in their best interest to do that.

[Dengar]

Furthermore, the country's problem isn't that Naofumi is a bad Shield Hero. Their problem is that Naofumi is the Shield Hero.


Either way, the episode ended on her declaration that she will kill the heroes. Logic would assume that we get to hear more of her reasoning next week.

[frodonk]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

Only if it's several hundred years per generation. That's how long Fitoria says she's been alive. Sounds like it's moderately uncommon for this to happen.

Even if it does happen semi-regularly, it only means that the heroes raise a queen filorial candidate. Fitoria herself has been the queen for hundreds of years. The episode made a point of that, in that she's not merely carrying on the name (with the queen being replaced periodically), but is the actual one from history.

The current turkey queen was raised by a hero, the current queen is several hundred years old.

Nao specifically asked why Filo grew the way she did, the queen said it's because she's being raised by a hero. Using this logic I assume a turkey queen candidate is something rare and that one of the conditions to be considered a candidate is for a turkey to be raised by a hero.

Of course, it's entirely possible that candidates naturally arise without hero intervention, we don't have enough info on that I guess.

Remember that they get teleported to the Wave by the hourglass. Also remember that Naofumi didn't get the timer to the next Wave until he visited the hourglass for the first time. My guess is that you have to 'register' at each hourglass in order for it to be able to send you to the Waves that happen in the country it's located in.

Thus each hero needs to register with each hourglass so that he can be summoned by that hourglass into that country when needed. So all the heroes can still fight together in each Wave, but between Waves they can individually work on fixing problems within each country.

Ooh, so everything's thrown out of balance because this kingdom has a monopoly on the 4 heroes? No wonder they're so underpowered, they're not grinding and levelling up on the other waves that happen on other countries, which may not necessarily happen at the same time there's a wave in Melromarc!

Thanks for this! I understand it now!

If Fitoria is strong enough to handle Waves on her own, and she's traveling around taking care of the ones that the heroes aren't getting to, then that type of rumor wouldn't spread as you suggest.

People talk, there might be a few or no casualties because of the turkey queen, but the fact that a wave occurred can't be hidden from everyone.

Originally Posted by Ichinotachi

If she said that they need to summon new heroes if the current ones can't work together to go against the waves as a group like they should be, then she's saying it because she can probably do it.

I don't have enough info yet to know whether this can be done, it's possible, but not yet sure.

Originally Posted by Kanon

It was explained that the summoning can only be done once ALL four heroes are dead.

Looks like I wasn't paying attention enough since this is the first time I've seen this.

Originally Posted by Dengar

Furthermore, the country's problem isn't that Naofumi is a bad Shield Hero. Their problem is that Naofumi is the Shield Hero.

The entire point was to humiliate the shield hero and make him useless, it doesn't matter what the actual person is like, just that the shield hero lives up to his supposed reputation of being ignorant and useless. But Naofumi's not acting like how the shield hero is supposed to be, according to the king, so I thought it would make sense to kill him and get another shield hero who's more breakable.

BUT as Kanon said you need to get rid of all 4 to get a new set, so that's not going to happen, and my thoughts on the matter are wrong.

[Lex79]

I guess this new plot development serves to force Naofumi to confront the other heroes instead of simply going to live in another country, but I can't help but feel for the poor man. Not only he keeps getting screwed over and over by that rotten princess and king, but now he's also given the responsibility to get the other heroes in the right track or else he'll be killed. Sucks to be him.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Still though, Fitoria is saying that the Heroes mustn't fight amongst themselves. Fine then but Nafoumi says they don't want to work things out with them, at the very least the Spear Hero seems to be a lost cause, only really Ren seems to be any realistically reasonable, and only just barely. So then Fitoria says, "Oh they won't work with you then? Fine, I'll kill you all." Well that's hardly fair now is it? Nafoumi getting killed because the other three are being asshats. Well maybe we'll get a more in depth explanation next week.

It has nothing to do with fairness, it's all about what's necessary for survival of the planet. The Waves are getting stronger and stronger, and apparently not just too strong for one but also too numerous and widespread. The only way for the world to make it through the crisis is with four OP warriors and their juiced-up parties fighting both as individuals and as a coordinated group. If even one of them is lazy or arrogant or uncooperative in any way, it could threaten everything. And the only way to replace any of them is to kill and replace all of them. It probably wouldn't have mattered if Motoyasu alone was causing trouble while the other three were saints, she'd still be debating the same options.

Also, to frodonk's statement that we don't know if the queen is outside the country or not, if she's still where she'd been shown before then I'd say it's safe to assume. It'd kind of hard to believe that much of a country would remain in a medieval level of development while one or two cities have made it past the Industrial Revolution.

[Galaxian]

This is one of the more consistently good looking episode in the series so far.

Also, I like the little touches of childish tendencies Fitoria has, responding to all the introductions, balancing on top of the fence, and playing with rocks.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Don't know if she's "behind" the situation, but she certainly knows about it and doesn't want them to know.

And this week we get confirmation that the King screwed the other nations over. Melromarc was supposed to summon only one hero and leave the others for other nations so that they'd all have heroes to attend to local Waves, as the hourglasses don't detect Waves outside their territory I guess. I could imagine some potential benefits to doing this, as it strips the other nations of their defense against the catastrophe, but at the same time the Waves don't seem to be enough to immediately cripple those nations, meaning instead we've got at least three neighboring nations furious that Melromarc basically robbed them.

Essentially. Which is why I keep stating that he should be put to the sword. He basically set the fuse for a war and went out of his way to actively hamper/try to kill one of his assets. I could understand trying to horde all of them for yourself in order to defend your lands, but to squander one of the hard stolen asset was just unforgivably stupid.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Sakura Tange! Always a treat to hear her.

Indeed. The Empress once again representing a royal position!

With 100% less umu, however.