2009-08-26, 20:52 | Link #22 |
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I've always wondered why we didn't have these threads before, I guess people just forgot to ask because it only became common years after the original season ended.
As for Haruhi herself, she's a very interesting character, especially in the novels. We probably know the least about her way of thinking out of all the characters as the others are able to more openly talk with Kyon given the fact that he's in the the big secret whereas she always has her guard up. It was one of the things that really drew me in originally when I started reading them back in 2006. It's obvious what her "Main" motivation is though for why she behaves the way she does though. |
2009-08-26, 22:15 | Link #24 |
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The following reasons, I think...
1) He's easy to boss around. Really, he is. While Kyon protests more than any other SOS Brigade member, he still puts up with a lot more from Haruhi than I think most guys his age (Japanese or otherwise) would. Haruhi needs submissive subordinates to do her bidding, and Kyon fills the role nicely. Spoiler for General Spoilers:
4) Presumably, Haruhi finds him at least somewhat physically attractive.
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2009-08-26, 22:26 | Link #25 |
Orthodox Haruhiist
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Well, initially one might be lead to believe that Haruhi 'chose' Kyon for the very simple fact that Kyon's the first guy who weathered her "go to hell!" aura long enough to routinely strike up a conversation with her and befriend her.
Spoiler:
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2009-08-27, 00:50 | Link #26 | |
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Something I noticed when I was looking at the illustations in the first novel, in one of them she has a lol-fang, (in her case it's a cos-rape-fang) too bad this didn't make the leap to the anime. But I guess two characters with a fang would be too much.
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2009-08-27, 00:53 | Link #27 |
Baka Inu~
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While I believe the character of Haruhi to be original and very interesting, I find that she's too contradictory for me to really like.
What really stuck out to me when I first watched the show, was her explanation of why she acts the way she acts. One of the big incidences that happened. When it comes down to it, the TV Trope defined it as "She Just Wants To Be Special." What I don't get about that, is how she was perfectly special in the first place before any of the god-like revelation took place. She was practically the most talented person in the school, the only person close being the humanoid interface Ryoko Asakura. Athletic, Smart, Attractive, and Known well throughout the student body by having one of the most active clubs. And as we found out by the end of her first year, she's musically talented as well. How does she not notice these things? Is she supposed to be that interested in the paranormal that she doesn't notice her own skills? The real big question to me is exactly how powerful or influential her wish-fulfillment is. (Is already soaked in gasoline, so feel free to debate about this with me) |
2009-08-27, 01:05 | Link #29 |
Kneel Before Your King!
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It's Haruhi's belief that anyone is capable of what she does, they just don't try hard enough. Her behavior in Boredom should be more than enough proof of that. What she wants is to truly be special. As in, she wants her life to be that of a sci-fi/fantasy world. However, she knows that "can't" happen.
I know I'm not really the best person to explain this sort of thing, but that's simply how it is. She has it in her head that she's normal, and wants something more.
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2009-08-27, 03:44 | Link #30 |
Koh nara dekiru!!!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
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He actively challenges her and doesn't run away from her craziness. Yeah, he usually goes down in flames when he does so... but it doesn't stop him from doing it time and time again.
Also, he's a lot like Haruhi... more than he'd care to admit and she probably senses this as well. |
2009-08-27, 18:13 | Link #32 |
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She reconised him as someone similar to her, with the same believe and interests (aliens, espers, time travel...).
It was only he who could think as crazy as her and ask if he hair style change was something to do with aliens. Is just Kyon don't want(ed) to believe that things anymore (cause it is imature). |
2009-08-28, 21:38 | Link #33 |
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A lot of people accuse Haruhi of being a sociopath, and yes her lack of respect for norms, people, and just basically everything is quite disgusting at times. Though we do have to realize she is the ultimate spoiled child-- the universe spoils her, quite literally.
Because it bends to her will, she has never had to compromise with anyone. She wants to have fun, and she sincerely believes other people are enjoying it too despite their collective groans and whining. But since nobody would dare oppose her, she thinks it's all ok and that everyone is playing their roles. It eventually gets boring, because everything seems too easy. Enter Kyon. He's the only one that doesn't act like a doormat to her, and actually provides oppoistion. She seems to genuinely want attention from him because of this. Plus you have to realize how the other 3 view her as... The aliens view her as a key to evolution. The espers view her as a god who would destroy the world out of boredom. The Time Travelers see her as a roadblock. Basically, nobody really sees her for herself. If she didn't have special abilities, then none of these factions would have given a damn about her. So it seems only natural she would be interested in the one that doesn't have an agenda. And so, Haruhi is apretty damned interesting character. If only you know who you were.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2009-08-28 at 21:48. Reason: reduced excessive use of "basically" |
2009-08-28, 21:59 | Link #34 | |||
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However, I agree with much of what you said - the fact that she can bend reality to make it very difficult for her to lose in any competition that she cares about doesn't help matters. I mentioned this over on the Koizumi thread, but I think it bears repeating here since it applies to Haruhi as well... Koizumi is really hurting her emotional maturing, I think, by always going out of his way to ensure that she never loses (as he did through his talks with Kyon during the baseball game and in Sagittarius III). Honestly, I think that Haruhi would probably, over the long term, benefit from losing at a competition that she genuinely cared about. Losing, every now and then, can build character. It can make a person more hardy, and more accepting of the idea that they can't always have their way. Quote:
Haruhi just doesn't care. It's not that she's deluding herself into thinking that everybody is enjoying it; it's that she's never really taken the time to put her feet in another person's shoes, so she doesn't even stop to consider what this all feels like for Mikuru. It's not maliciousness... but it's not self-delusion either. It's pure apathy/obliviousness. Quote:
Part of the problem isn't Haruhi's at all - it's the people around her, with a slight exception in Kyon's case. While it's true that Haruhi makes no effort to empathize with others, it's also true that nobody else tries to empathize with her, either; not openly towards her anyway. This is, perhaps, part of what sets Kyon apart from the rest of Haruhi's peers, and in Haruhi's own eyes as well; he actually does try to empathize with her, at least every once in a while. I think that if somebody was to like Haruhi for who she is, and if somebody was to sincerely share her interests with her, then you may see such empathy become reciprocal, and cause Haruhi to grow as a person. Basically, nobody in the SOS Brigade truly shares her interests. Why would they? If you're an esper yourself, why would espers intrigue you? Kyon, though he's loath to admit it, at least shares her interests to a degree - he doesn't hold them as passionately as Haruhi does, but he'd genuinely like to see something very out-of-the-ordinary himself. I think that Haruhi picks up on that in him, and maybe that's part of the reason why Haruhi chose him to be her friend and in her SOS Brigade group. I suspect that, at some intuitive level, Haruhi can tell that - of the people she knows - only Kyon and she herself is really into the idea of seeing the out-of-the-ordinary.
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2009-08-28, 22:28 | Link #35 |
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Again Triple brings up my thoughts about Haruhi's parents, I don't know why but I get the feeling their like Mandy's Parents from Grim adventures of Billy and Mandy.
Also I've always wondered if Haruhi's powers were always there but dorment until that event "three years ago" or is that when she recieved them? Was there any revelation on this? Also anyone want to speculate on post Graduation/novel Haruhi? I see her taking the SOS with her and turning it into a Private Investigation firm. That or she'd join Japan's version of the FBI's X-File unit.
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2009-08-28, 22:29 | Link #36 | ||
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It's true of all 3 factions to some degree. They all want to play it safe and throw responsibility at someone else , but it can't last like that. Quote:
But yea, she hasn't considered how others feel at all. She simply doesn't comprehend the need for morality. Apathy and obliviousness might just be the better words for her case.
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2009-08-28, 22:33 | Link #37 | |
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On the other hand, if Japan's economy were stagnating and new opportunities to cause huge change in industry were closed to her, then she would end up becoming frustrated with her inability to achieve. If she didn't have her reality-warping powers (speaking of Haruhi as a real person, rather than imaginary), then she'd probably become more "accepting of the idea that [she] can't always have [her] way". She'd come out an ordinary person with little motivation to take big risks since her past failures in her frustrating environment stifled her ambition. For this reason, I believe that Haruhi would gravitate towards areas that have opportunities for her to exercise her ruthless ambition and abilities. In the event that she did face inevitable failure of an important venture for her career, then she'd realize that she's stuck in small-town Nishinomiya where politicians and businessmen alike are too afraid to take risks that no other businesses/politicians have explored. On the topic of business, I've met with several Japanese company executives and a few firms that coordinate US-Japan business relations. The potential for entrepreneurship in Japan is still lagging in comparison to outside countries such as the US. Positions of power in big Japanese companies are still manned by loyal employees who have reached a certain age in the company. To a large degree, promotions work like clockwork. Maverick-style management, the kind that I suspect Haruhi would excel at, is a rare find. If Haruhi were to find a niche in a system to refine her developing skill as a lawyer, detective, physicist, writer, or whatever, that niche would probably involve her leaving Japan. In other words, Haruhi is unable to accept failure. She'd change her environment to suit her greed for glory. Any compromise on her part would dull what I believe most of us in this forum admire in her.
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2009-08-28, 22:46 | Link #38 | ||||||||
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My own perspective is that the 3 factions are all going with a bandaid solution approach to Haruhi - just taking things one instance at a time. They're not trying to build any sort of perceivable long-term strategy for her. Now, in Mikuru's case, this could be because everything is predestined anyway - her job is to simply keep it that way, I suppose. In Nagato's case, she's often simply an observer/information gatherer, and to her credit, she admits as much. But Koizumi... Koizumi has a certain degree of freedom that both of the above lack. He isn't bound by the future (Mikuru), and nor is he bound to simply observe (Yuki). It would be better, I think, if he focused less on a case-by-case basis, and more on the big picture of Haruhi's maturing as a person. Quote:
Or, if you sincerely believe that it does, that's the key problem in and of itself - you need to emotionally move Haruhi to the point where she's stabler than that. Quote:
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But, yeah, her sense of morality is very much limited by her general lack of empathy. Quote:
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A person who never loses at anything is a person who can't relate to anybody who does... and hence, we see one of the causes behind Haruhi's inability to have empathy for others. Also, losing often gives a person the added incentive needed to better themselves and push themselves to be stronger. I mean - this is the whole idea behind the famous Rocky movies. And heck, you see a lot of it in shonen anime too - you can't tell me that Ichigo's embarrassing defeat at Byakuya's hands in Season 1 didn't help motivate him to become the toughest fighter that he could be. A person who wins all the time is a person who finds everything easy, and hence motivation to push themselves or challenge themselves will naturally diminish over time. I recall the New England Patriots going into the SuperBowl the year when they went undefeated up until that point. Then... when they finally faced some real adversity in the SuperBowl, the biggest game of them all, they lost. They lost, perhaps, because they never learned how to deal with a losing situation all season long; you learn from your losses just as much (if not more) than you learn from your victories. Any pro sports coach will tell you that, I think. Haruhi would really benefit from losing (once) at something - it could be a good learning experience for her, a good motivator for her, and a good catalyst for her learning to empathize with others more.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2009-08-28 at 23:17. Reason: Edit in for Baltakatei |
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2009-08-28, 23:00 | Link #39 | ||
Kneel Before Your King!
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While we don't get as much from the time travelers, the fact that Mikuru was notified at the same time as the other two proves that she was also warned of what Haruhi was doing.
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2009-08-28, 23:07 | Link #40 | |
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The idea is patently absurd. Sure, Haruhi would be depressed over losing - probably cause a couple of closed spaces to appear (Koizumi's real concern, I suspect), but destroy the entire universe over it? Really, now? Even the most immature of little kids aren't like that.
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