(L) Shiki

[Kaoru Chujo]

I'm not judging this in any moral way. If this were real life, of course I would be supporting the humans. But this is fantasy, and I am free to sympathize with the more interesting and "human" characters -- who are Sunako and Seishin and to a lesser extent the Kirishikis and Megumi. Except for Kaori and Ritsuko, the humans are either boring or brutal.

Sunako may "get what she deserved" (oh, how I loathe that phrase), but who of us would be safe if we all got exactly what we deserved? I think this is part of the theme of the show: we are all bloodsucking vampires, in one way or another. My own theory is that if we forget our shadows -- forget that we have evil in us -- our shadows will overwhelm us. Countries and people which think they are perfect tend to perpetrate horrors on others.

[FlareKnight]

Well at this point it's getting pretty crazy on both sides. I'm not really surprised to see how brutal some of the humans are getting. Really understanding that family and friends have been murdered, the fact that relatives have risen from the grave, and how this is a struggle for survival would push everyone to the brink. Killing a hypnotized villager is hardly that surprising since it's turned into an, us vs them situation. The Shiki are the enemy and anyone who helps them even hypnotized is the enemy. Obviously it doesn't work like that, but in this kind of situation could see people simplifying things down.

Sure some sympathy for Sunako, but she did create this situation. Could have kept things small, but decided to eliminate a village. Certainly the shiki must drink blood to survive. But should be possible to not have to kill off the victims. Even if they had to prey has the right to fight for survival as well. Nothing wrong with people fighting back.

[Hooves]

Spoiler for Character Review from 20:

Toshio: Finally understanding the madness of this situation he has placed the village in by observing as an hypnotized man was just killed because he told them that the Shiki were able to hypnotize people by biting them. He vowed to stop whatever was killing off the village (aka Shiki) he dint vow to kill off villagers that were still alive, but under hypnosis (probably was just going to lock them up somewhere till they calmed down. What he should have learned is that it would take way too long for someone who was bitten to regain their sanity (he even observed it first hand when the woman he was trying to keep in the hospital still called out to be drained) Since the Shiki were not living beings, he thinks that it is ok to just simply kill them off and live on happily ever after then. But now we will probably see a twist.

Sunako: Defiantly breaking down after not hearing word about her father, who accepted her as a Shiki she was. Especially with her mother dead as well. Believing this is divine punishment for all the deaths she has caused, but still doubts it because every living being (even if they are dead, they are considered... Half-Living?) has the urge to live in their life to the max (well... Unless you completely lose hope and all) She knew that her ways were bad, but it was just the urge to live that kept her going. Probably believing that Seishin had an answer for her, she sought him for guidance (when he found out what she truly was) but nothing comes from him.. I don't know what else to say.

Seishin: .......... Do something already!

Kirishiki Guy: Explains why he is able to walk in the sun, he is still human that lives with Shiki around. But if he wanted to become a Shiki... Why dint he just ask the vampires to bite him and hope to rise up? Or was he just scared that he will not rise up, and not have a second chance in life and wanting to live the life he currently has to the max. He obviously grew up from a political father that probably sent assassinations or was a gang lord that killed people to make him more powerful. Either of them eventually influenced him to think that Shiki killing Humans is nothing less then Humans killing Humans.

Natsuno: Yeah... We already know enough about you... Wanting to defy the Shiki even after you were given a second life.

[PzIVf3]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

5th DVD cover is epic. Oh so epic.

The Doc remind me like a leader of racist group massacring entire black people in the village from the movie called Rosewood.

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by totoum

Also,do they need blood from people that are alive?

If I were to rise i'd raid a morgue with bodies of people that just died,wouldn't that work?

They could have just found a list of ppl who lived alone in a city and bunked with that person for a night, since they have hypnosis they can just command their host to forget that they were ever there. Rotate with every one within a single floor at an apartment would have been sufficient.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I'm not judging this in any moral way. If this were real life, of course I would be supporting the humans. But this is fantasy, and I am free to sympathize with the more interesting and "human" characters -- who are Sunako and Seishin and to a lesser extent the Kirishikis and Megumi. Except for Kaori and Ritsuko, the humans are either boring or brutal.

This might be because the humans have hardly been developed. Which humans do we really know on the human side? The show has only focused on Toshio, Seishin and the kids (Natsuno, Kaori, Akira). That's it.

I understand why you sympathize with Sunako and Seishin, but Megumi? She's one of the most inhuman character in the show in my opinion. She's incredibly selfish, shallow, and she kills for pleasure rather than necessity. She's the one shiki I'm dying to see staked.

[Shiroth]

I don't like seeing anyone killed, though i can agree with Kanon regarding Megumi. She at least needs to get what's coming to her, and chances are it'll have something to do with Natsuno.

Has anyone come across the first mini soundtrack yet?

[PzIVf3]

Its still bugs me how the doc managed to breaks Chizuru mind control. Is it Natsuno bit him first before Chizuro? or his wife?

[Manic]

yeah they failed to show it but nats bites him before hand and commands him to keep his will, so it over rides the command chizuru gave him.

Certainly the shiki must drink blood to survive. But should be possible to not have to kill off the victims. Even if they had to prey has the right to fight for survival as well. Nothing wrong with people fighting back.

yeah exactly i couldnt feel sorry for the shiki at all because they dont have to kill they just choose to. If they would just rotate who's blood they drink theyd never have to kill anyone. She and the rest brought this on themselves since they chose to take life instead of trying to come up with alternatives. Maybe thats why Seishin kept quiet

[Horse]

Spoiler for mini soundtrack #2 @ january 26:

1. Epitaph (3:15)
2. Memento Mori (3:19)
3. Dry Lake (2:06)
4. Amethyst (2:48)
5. 13th Floor (3:07)
6. Dance of Death (2:58)

And still no rip of the first soundtrack...

[orion]

Originally Posted by Manic

yeah they failed to show it but nats bites him before hand and commands him to keep his will, so it over rides the command chizuru gave him.

So basically Natsuno has ingested blood and let Tatsumi think otherwise. I wonder how the Natsuno-Tatsumi showdown is going to be shown. There's just got to be one.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I'm not judging this in any moral way. If this were real life, of course I would be supporting the humans. But this is fantasy, and I am free to sympathize with the more interesting and "human" characters -- who are Sunako and Seishin and to a lesser extent the Kirishikis and Megumi. Except for Kaori and Ritsuko, the humans are either boring or brutal.

Sunako may "get what she deserved" (oh, how I loathe that phrase), but who of us would be safe if we all got exactly what we deserved? I think this is part of the theme of the show: we are all bloodsucking vampires, in one way or another. My own theory is that if we forget our shadows -- forget that we have evil in us -- our shadows will overwhelm us. Countries and people which think they are perfect tend to perpetrate horrors on others.

The issue with Sunako isn't that she was wrong to want to live, or even wrong to kill people to further her own life. (This being fiction and not real life, of course) Rather, the people getting ready to storm the castle are a direct result of her attitude towards her own life and how she lives. You can't expect to dehumanize people by acting as though they are cattle and there to serve as your next meal, and then expect them to not to dehumanize you into a blood-sucking monster.

Despite that, I do pity Sunako. But her plea was painting herself as a victim of circumstance, when she is the one that created said circumstances.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by musouka

You can't expect to dehumanize people by acting as though they are cattle and there to serve as your next meal, and then expect them to not to dehumanize you into a blood-sucking monster.

Despite that, I do pity Sunako. But her plea was painting herself as a victim of circumstance, when she is the one that created said circumstances.

Perhaps we should also remember that it was her own family (and society in general, though the works that she read when she was kept in that storeroom) that dehumanised her first? Albeit after she killed for the first time because she was so hungry...

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Manic

yeah they failed to show it but nats bites him before hand and commands him to keep his will, so it over rides the command chizuru gave him.

Well, the doc only got bit once by Chizuru, so he obviously just went ahead and got another vampire to bite him on the arm in order to override Chizuru's mind control that was placed on him. But the question still remains on who bit him besides Chizuru? Was it Natsuno? He did seem pretty energetic from his usual weak self during the earlier episodes when he had a chat with the other Jinrou.

yeah exactly i couldnt feel sorry for the shiki at all because they dont have to kill they just choose to. If they would just rotate who's blood they drink theyd never have to kill anyone. She and the rest brought this on themselves since they chose to take life instead of trying to come up with alternatives. Maybe thats why Seishin kept quiet

Thinking from another world, what if that victim had recovered and remembered the events that transpired over the whole biting part? Then that person will defiantly go and tell the whole entire village that there are vampires on the loose and are going to kill us all, lets stake them! But thinking from another point, people will defiantly notice that strange reactions that the people who lost about 25% of their blood will give. Then will think that something else is up.

But then again, that does seem like a good idea of transitioning between who you bite and who you feed. But the Kirishiki family had another plan up their sleeves. They thought that if they could kill everyone and turn them all into vampires, they would not need to hide from society as a monster. But live in a peaceful, quiet village all to themselves.

[fukarming]

Originally Posted by Hooves

Well, the doc only got bit once by Chizuru, so he obviously just went ahead and got another vampire to bite him on the arm in order to override Chizuru's mind control that was placed on him. But the question still remains on who bit him besides Chizuru? Was it Natsuno? He did seem pretty energetic from his usual weak self during the earlier episodes when he had a chat with the other Jinrou.



Thinking from another world, what if that victim had recovered and remembered the events that transpired over the whole biting part? Then that person will defiantly go and tell the whole entire village that there are vampires on the loose and are going to kill us all, lets stake them! But thinking from another point, people will defiantly notice that strange reactions that the people who lost about 25% of their blood will give. Then will think that something else is up.

But then again, that does seem like a good idea of transitioning between who you bite and who you feed. But the Kirishiki family had another plan up their sleeves. They thought that if they could kill everyone and turn them all into vampires, they would not need to hide from society as a monster. But live in a peaceful, quiet village all to themselves.

We don't know how the hypnotic effect work, do we? We know that if the Shiki do not use hypnosis, then the victim will remember (Tohru vs Natsuno). But there is no mentioning if a Shiki bites, hypnotize the victim, then leave them alone. The victim then recovers and if the victim will remember the attack. The closest we have is Nao vs mother in law. The mother in law, after a couple days, still under hypnosis but "remember" that Nao visit her in her dream.

The best way for Shiki to survive is to maintain a small group and wander around. When things go bad they can escape quickly since they are a small group. Kinda like how the Kirishiki is at the beginning. The group consist of Tatsumi and Yoshie, the Jinroh, Mr. K the human and Sunako and Chizuru as the Shiki. But Sunako becomes lonely and want to create a village of Shiki. IMO that is a dumb idea.

[zero7090]

hypocrite rotten old hag vs Angelic Maiden Ritsuko

this ep is full of win

[orion]

Originally Posted by karice67

Perhaps we should also remember that it was her own family (and society in general, though the works that she read when she was kept in that storeroom) that dehumanised her first? Albeit after she killed for the first time because she was so hungry...

That's because they couldn't kill their own child. If they were able to do that, then this whole story wouldn't happen.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by orion

That's because they couldn't kill their own child. If they were able to do that, then this whole story wouldn't happen.

Ok. So they couldn't kill her, so they dehumanised her. But it's wrong for Sunako to dehumanise those who dehumanised her?

I'm not saying I sympathise with Sunako over the humans. However, isn't it a bit like asking: which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[orion]

Originally Posted by karice67

Ok. So they couldn't kill her, so they dehumanised her. But it's wrong for Sunako to dehumanise those who dehumanised her?

I'm not saying I sympathise with Sunako over the Shiki. However, isn't it a bit like asking: which came first, the chicken or the egg?

No it's not a chicken and egg scenario as it is wrong for Sunako to dehumanize anyone. She was reading books in that library. She knows right from wrong. Any reason for dehumanizing that she came up with was so that she could justify killing.

Since Sunako was legally dead, her family could have done what that other guy did, took responsibility and staked her. Instead, they fed her and left the area. She could have commited suicide at any time instead she chose to kill others going beyond what it takes for personal survival to quell her "loneliness". Sucks to be her. Karma is a b***h. Hopefully, she gets what she deserves.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by orion

Sucks to be her. Karma is a b***h.

She pretty much says this herself when she says "this is my punishnment",I find it interesting how people try and defend her actions when Sunako herself doesn't defend them.