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Old 2013-05-04, 14:11   Link #821
Zaresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
"Acting stupidly" was a key point in NGE's initial success at subverting the genre with the reactions of real people, though...
Yeah, sure, I agree, and I still can't see how someone can feel sympathy for them like they were.

But as I said some pages ago, I didn't watch the TV series until the end, so I don't know how they grew and dealt with their issues.
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Old 2013-05-04, 14:12   Link #822
Bri
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Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
Sure, for Asuka is a logical behaviour. But that doesn't mean I can pity her. I think she's acting stupidly.
People who are stupid and make mistakes deserve no empathy? Interesting, but yes, I can see why Evangelion would not appeal to you.
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Old 2013-05-04, 14:12   Link #823
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Rebuild is just a visual representation of what is going on in Shinji's mind during End of Evangelion.
Doesn't the original TV episodes for 25-26 already cover this very well though ? I mean your point about the fantasy, is that not already covered by Shinji's dream world of a standard high school ecchi rom-com story?

The problem I see with this theory is that if this were the case we wouldn't have all these additional side characters, most prominently Mari. How does she fit into this?

There have been more than a few heavy handed hints that Rebuild is somehow a "sequel" of EoE to just simply ignore it. I think Gendo standing in front of that Rei head is an example of it. I don't know how this fits into everything, or if it is just trolling on Anno's part though.

Time will tell I guess.
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Old 2013-05-04, 14:15   Link #824
Zaresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
People who are stupid and make mistakes deserve no empathy? Interesting, but yes, I can see why Evangelion would not appeal to you.
People that make mistakes and act stupidly all the time and in addition hurt others... No, they don't deserve my sympathy. My patience with that kind of people is very limited, perhaps because I already had my portion by the time I watched it.
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Old 2013-05-04, 14:27   Link #825
Bri
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Just where the hell Mari comes from?! Who is she supposed to represent?
She is the mental representation of the real Asuka, trying to help Shinji to awaken on the beach?
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Old 2013-05-04, 14:36   Link #826
Sackett
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
That sounds pretty cool Sackett even though I'm not quite sure it's true and even if it was I think it is really going to far to make 4 damn movies about it.

But assuming this is true and this is all a sort of dream like reminiscence inside Shinji's mind...

Just where the hell Mari comes from?! Who is she supposed to represent?
Mari is a curiosity. Although she is a rather flat character. One theory is that she's a representation of what Shinji fears Asuka really thinks of him. (Asuka as a combat loving ace pilot who thinks of Shinji as a pitiful puppy).

I think Mari is actually Asuka's insertion into the 3rd Impact dream. She's what Asuka imagine she wants from a fellow Eva pilot. Gungho for battle, proficient but not enough to out shine Asuka. A good backup who just does the little that is needed, but allows Asuka to pull off incredible actions.

Mari also knows Asuka's true feelings for Shinji, and is comfortable smelling Shinji and calling him pet names. Also explains how Mari could pilot Eva 2. Mari is really a portion of Asuka's psyche. (Also explains why she seems to be involved with Kaji).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Some facts still don't seem to make sense anyway. I mean Shinji is secretly a grammar nazi and he was always bothered by "children" being used for singular individuals and he decided to go with "child" instead in his mind? Or Shinji was always bothered by the idea that his father took the family name of her mother instead of the opposite as it more often happens so he decided to fix it in his mind?


As much as people like to think that this isn't a retelling but some sort of sequel I don't think you can't deny that a lot of stuff has been rewritten.
Actually these items are what make me think that this is more Shinji remaking the show in a dream, rather than a real remake.

Does Shinji even know that his father took his mother's name? I think that mentally he identifies Rei with his mother, and so naturally he gives them the same last name. While "Ikari" is always his father, and so Shinji doesn't want to associate it with his mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Doesn't the original TV episodes for 25-26 already cover this very well though ? I mean your point about the fantasy, is that not already covered by Shinji's dream world of a standard high school ecchi rom-com story?

The problem I see with this theory is that if this were the case we wouldn't have all these additional side characters, most prominently Mari. How does she fit into this?

Time will tell I guess.
Ah, but Shinji's dream world of a standard high school ecchi rom-com story was just too far from reality for Shinji to really let go and believe the fantasy. He even calls it out, saying it's not right. But Rebuild 1? Rebuild 1 his father was still horrible, and everything was crap, but Shinji handled it better. Then Rebuild 2 took it too far and again Shinji started rejecting the fantasy.

Mari explained above.

Other new characters? What other new characters? Did we actually spend anytime with these new characters? Can we even call them characters?
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Old 2013-05-04, 14:39   Link #827
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
She is the mental representation of the real Asuka, trying to help Shinji to awaken on the beach?
That's an interesting interpretation supported at the very least by the fact that Mari takes away screentime directly from Asuka.

So basically Shinji decided to split Asuka in two.

But... there's very little of Mari that reminds me Asuka and there are suggestions that she might have a completely different role.

I'll keep telling myself that everything will be explained in the last movie even though Anno managed to screw up the ending of Evangelion twice already.
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Old 2013-05-04, 15:03   Link #828
desrtsku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I'll keep telling myself that everything will be explained in the last movie even though Anno managed to screw up the ending of Evangelion twice already.
"He'll keep repeating it until he's satisfied."
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Old 2013-05-04, 15:12   Link #829
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
That's an interesting interpretation supported at the very least by the fact that Mari takes away screentime directly from Asuka.

So basically Shinji decided to split Asuka in two.

But... there's very little of Mari that reminds me Asuka and there are suggestions that she might have a completely different role.
Could be the 'healed' post EoE Asuka. She seems completely unfazed by events, as if she knows they are not 'real'. Also there is that strange merged Eva 02/08 at the end.

Last edited by Bri; 2013-05-04 at 15:27. Reason: grammar
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Old 2013-05-04, 15:15   Link #830
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Ah, but Shinji's dream world of a standard high school ecchi rom-com story was just too far from reality for Shinji to really let go and believe the fantasy. He even calls it out, saying it's not right. But Rebuild 1? Rebuild 1 his father was still horrible, and everything was crap, but Shinji handled it better. Then Rebuild 2 took it too far and again Shinji started rejecting the fantasy.

Mari explained above.

Other new characters? What other new characters? Did we actually spend anytime with these new characters? Can we even call them characters?
So it's the reimagining of the reimagining?

Well I think your theory sounds like a better fanfiction story than whatever Anno is trying to actually do with Rebuild in any case .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
She seems completely unfazed events, as if she knows it's not 'real'. Also there is that strange merged Eva 02/08 at the end.
I took her personality to just be a crappy light novel otaku flavored troll character who walked into the wrong show.
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Old 2013-05-04, 15:22   Link #831
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
So it's the reimagining of the reimagining?

Well I think your theory sounds like a better fanfiction story than whatever Anno is trying to actually do with Rebuild in any case .
Anno can leave Gainax but can you take the Gainax out of Anno?

I'm not too surprised if Rebuilt turns out to be Gunbuster 2 taken to the next level.
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Old 2013-05-04, 17:40   Link #832
Kanon
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Sackett's theory is probably better than what Anno himself has planned

I really like this interpretation but I don't believe it for a second, sorry. I'll be glad to be proven wrong with the final film.
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Old 2013-05-04, 19:16   Link #833
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It sort of makes me want to re-read the Retake doujins.
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Old 2013-05-04, 20:13   Link #834
brocko
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The picture Fuyutski shows to Shinji could be a point of interest in regards to Mari I think.
Spoiler for for size:

People are speculating the unknown women could either be Asuka or Mari's mother or perhaps maybe even Mari herself thanks to the Curse of Eva.
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Old 2013-05-04, 20:40   Link #835
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brocko View Post
*snips*
2ch and others seem to think it's Kyouko, but if so it's a different design than we've seen in any supplementary material so far. To be fair she DOES look like an adult Asuka, but the problem is the movie character designs are still based on Sadamoto's designs, and the facial lines of his females tend to be similar anyway.
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Old 2013-05-04, 20:51   Link #836
brocko
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The hairstyle is indeed Asuka, but the plaid shirt and glasses also say Mari so it's a little bit of a toss up here imo. Both sides have a case here.
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Old 2013-05-04, 22:12   Link #837
solomon
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Reckoner summed up my opinion, albiet a much harsher version. As I still liked the film, but there are a lot of silly aggravating parts to it. I guess I'm giving it more of a pass just cause it's PURE CINEMATIC SEX!!!! (looks at battles and eyes melt).

Sacket brings up a very interesting and understandable hypothesis, it not being a remake but a commentary............

Still if that's true, I find it lame for at least 2 reasons...........I think there was ENOUGH commentary made externaly on the original show (which lends itself better towards it because it gets so abstract), we didn't NEED that here.

Secondly, Anno specifically said that this was to be accessible to new comers yet going by the 3rd film and bits of the 2nd it feels like the films assume (too much) that the audences already are "in on it"................(Asuka IS underdeveloped in the new films, why is she so bent up on "recognition" here?) for far too many story elements.

I'm not gonna say it was bad the direction they went in especially with SHinji but it feels a tad bait and swtich when everyone was expecting a totally different direction after Anno saying he wanted a break from the UBER HEAVY MYSTERIOUS Eva feel.

Mind you we still have another film to go, so hopefully all these problems are fixed otherwise just seems like a waste.
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Old 2013-05-05, 09:48   Link #838
Mad Pierrot
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Is it me or Asuka turned into a Hulk Tsundere? It's like she suffers from rage in the movie and is never calm.

I miss Sadamoto's Asuka. She had less screentime but was much more likable.

Last edited by Mad Pierrot; 2013-05-05 at 18:32.
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Old 2013-05-05, 15:04   Link #839
Lenneth4
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She got contaminated by the angel in 2.0
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Old 2013-05-05, 15:16   Link #840
blakstealth
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Is it me or Asuka turned into a Hulk Tsundere? It's like she suffers from rage in the movie and is never calm.

I miss the Sadamoto's Asuka. She had less screentime but was much more likable.
Her innocence was defiled by the angel in the last movie.
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