2012-10-22, 07:56 | Link #1641 |
Socially Inept
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Retracing my steps.....
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This may not be the right thread for this but I had an interesting conversation with my neighbor yesterday and I'd be interested to see what some of you think of this situation.
So my neighbor is a guy in his 60's who works for a $100 million+ company that I'm not sure what exactly they do other than some kind of pipe fitting and plumbing. I just know that they are a big company that the guys been working in since I was a little kid. They handle huge contracts all over the place apparently. Anyway he was telling me about how the foundry/factory/mill they buy there materials from down in texas is moved to china in the last year or so. He said the issue was that the company was being fined around a couple million a year for not having some kind of equipment up to date. The upgrades would have cost them close to a billion dollars apparently. So the obvious choice for years has been to eat the 2 million dollar fine every year and still make plenty of money. Then last year the town they were based in decided not to grant them the permits they needed to keep operating. So according to this my neighbor they were practically forced to go to China. Now his boss has gone from bonus' ranging in the tens of thousands, to a bonus somewhere around 400,000. They are literally raking in the money more than they ever have. The thing is he says the company was perfectly fine staying in Texas the way they had been forever, but they were pretty much kicked out, into a more financially profitable situation that does nothing to benefit the country. Is this a problem? If so how do we stop this from happening? Everyone I know is really having a tough time economically (other than my neighbor I guess) and this sort of thing frustrates me to hear.
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2012-10-22, 08:11 | Link #1642 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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We'd need to know more about why they were getting the fines -- were employees getting sick or killed? Were the products failing? Causing unsafe conditions when used?
Do those problems still exist in China now? If so, why is that okay? When "making money" is more important than "doing it right" - we get coal mines that kill the employees, etc. The way to stop companies from relocating because their executives can multiple their bonuses is for all the countries to realize that a fairly equitable regulated playing field would reduce the incentive to play groups of citizens against each other in a race to the bottom.
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2012-10-22, 08:25 | Link #1645 | |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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EDIT: Look up Salt Lake City, it's one of Mitten's "crown jewels" of public accountability and fiscal responsibility. Ultimately, as Sume says, he probably didn't do nearly as much as anyone thinks.. but it's still a part of the resume. Last edited by willx; 2012-10-22 at 08:26. Reason: New Posts |
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2012-10-22, 09:18 | Link #1646 |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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It's a big problem, since the workers really have no say in the issue yet they are the ones most affected. Democratize the workplace and this problem would be virtually nonexistent. It blows my mind to see a country that preaches so much about democracy, freedom, and liberty.....go to a workplace where your primary job is to do what your boss tells you what to do and how to do it, and your say in that is essentially limited to "if you don't, you're fired". And then he moves the company overseas anyway while complaining the US taxes him too much.
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2012-10-22, 09:47 | Link #1647 | |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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Thought this was a very intelligent comment/discussion on reddit (shocking, I know) that people should be aware of and remind themselves of:
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2012-10-22, 10:04 | Link #1648 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Quote:
The latter, of course, will try to subvert the city-state-country (will of the people). It is up to the people to keep a spotlight on their ONLY tool outside of violence for reining in these modern warlord-robber-barons. That's why the "gubmint-is-evil" people sound so ... bizarre to me. Basically, they're *asking* to be raped by the roving bands of looter-barons because they're throwing away the only tool to slow them down.
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2012-10-22, 18:33 | Link #1651 | |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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Like Mr. David Brooks, I suppose. Facts are pretty simple to dig out even on the Internet unless "you don't believe in fact-checking." Don't go to the DailyKos or HuffingtonPost (they're partisans, new media equivalents of classic old party rags), try something like factcheck.org. Data, congressional voting records, they're all available, and there are sources which make it their raison d'etre to digest and analyze them for the public benefit. Policies ought to be set not by taking A and B and mix them up the middle (not that the Republican party made even that easy these days), but by rational decisions based on established data, guided of course by principles which are up for contest in a proper functioning democracy. Besides, reddit is user-directed. If the users are liberal (as the young and Internet savvy are wont to be), that's how the website's going to look. It isn't a news source claiming neutrality, as Fox News claim to be. It's not even entirely pro-Democrat, redditors are natural allies of the EFF, The Pirate Bay, and other sworn enemies of the Party of Hollywood. Karma-whoring through anti-IP legislation posts is a tradition. They just hate the Right that much more. |
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2012-10-22, 20:10 | Link #1653 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2012-10-22, 20:17 | Link #1655 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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--- That being said, Romney is doing great so far [in the debate]. Straight up attacks on Obama and then casual dismissal of Obama's counterattcks. Fine bit of rhetoric, nicely staged. He came prepared. |
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2012-10-22, 20:20 | Link #1656 |
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Obama just nailed Romney in the first minutes of the debate when he told him: "You need to be consistent and stop sending mix messages to our enemies and allies." Consequently, Romney was backed into a corner and had nothing to say about it.
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2012-10-22, 20:36 | Link #1657 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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An election like the one from 1912 would have been interesting. While we had something like that in 1992, Teddy's Progressive Party got a lot farther in the Electoral College than the Reform Party every did.
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2012-10-22, 20:38 | Link #1658 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Romney is doing a bit better just now at least in rhetoric but Obama keeps shoveling countering facts that, in a scored debate, would undermine the rhetoric. In practice, Romney actually has a reputation for diving deeply into a topic (Carter style) - its just been invisible during the primaries and afterward.
Unfortunately, facts are irrelevant to a large portion of the electorate. This may end being another "Ah lahk him cuz I drink a beer wit dis guy" -- the only difference being Obama is the "beer dude" this time (whereas Bush, Jr. was the last time). edit: ouch.... the states are *not* doing a better job, its tanking the poorer states. I'm not sure why we're talking domestic policy again outside of military spending. edit: balancing a budget for business does NOT equal balancing a budget for government. The "customer" in the former are the shareholders (which means employees and customers get short shrift). The "customer" in the government is every citizen of the United States (not just the tax payers, sorry). Priorities are not the same.
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