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Old 2020-01-30, 09:23   Link #1
marvelB
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One Piece - Chapter 970 [manga]

Welcome to the weekly manga discussion thread for One Piece.

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Remember that the manga is licensed, do not post significant parts of the chapter. This includes images, scripts and direct translations of the manga. Summaries are OK, crops of pictures are OK (only if you need to illustrate your point) but this is it.

Okay, credit goes to AP's Redon and co. for what we have so far:

-Chapter title is "Oden vs. Kaidou". Ministory involves Capone and Vito being held back by Dressrosa's residents, who try to kiss them.

-As Oden and the Scabbards arrive at Kaidou's lair, they find that the dragon and an army of pirates await them! Oden had planned to decapitate the pirate leader as he lay drunk, but Kaidou had anticipated his move.... as it was he and Orochi who plotted to keep the samurai at bay for five years with their bogus "deal". Kaidou further explains that he would have been at a disadvantage back then, because if Oden and Hyougoro had rallied the samurai and chivalrous yakuza by their side, they would overwhelm them with their numbers. However, Oden, like Roger and Whitebeard, was soft at heart, despite his strength. Nonetheless, the samurai does not regret the decision he made back then, and goes forth to battle!

-Despite the difference in numbers, Oden and his men prove to be formidable opponents for the emperor's forces! They're even joined by the kunoichi Shinobu, who remains loyal to the Kouzuki clan. However, Kaidou's side still has King and Queen to even the odds. During this great clash, we see Yasuie with Oden's family, as he was asked to protect them during this crisis. The daimyo notes that Oden's victory or loss will decide the future of Wano.....

-Back to the battle, Oden lands a devastating blow on Kaidou, wounding him in his dragon form! However, the pirates spring a nasty surprise on the samurai: One of them holds Momonosuke hostage! Oden, distracted by this, falls victim to a vicious blow by Kaidou! As the mighty samurai lay defeated, we discover that the "Momo" who was held hostage was, in reality, the old hag Kurozumi Higurashi! The Scabbards, realizing their lord had fallen, are eventually all defeated in turn....

-After their loss, Oden and the Scabbards are captured and imprisoned. As a last act of kindness on his part, Oden intentionally distances himself from Shinobu so she doesn't share his fate. The samurais' punishment is soon decided: In three days' time, they will be sentenced to DEATH BY BOILING....!!!!!

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Last edited by marvelB; 2020-02-05 at 10:30.
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Old 2020-01-30, 09:36   Link #2
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Edit: Okay, more info's out now, so disregard my earlier comments. Anyway, looks like Oden really was emperor-level (or at least close to it) at his peak. Too bad he got taken down by such dirty (yet effective) tactics....

BTW, interesting that Oden seems to be getting the Ishikawa Goemon treatment as far as his death sentence is concerned. At least it doesn't seem that Momo was sentenced to get boiled along with him (well, that much should be clear since his mother sent him to the future AFTER Oden's death)....

Last edited by marvelB; 2020-01-30 at 11:13.
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Old 2020-01-30, 12:16   Link #3
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So Oden and Kaido were on the same level and Kaido needed to play dirty to gain advantage. I don't mind this too much. This is the best thing Oda could have done after hyping both of the characters so much. This way neither look bad(at least when it comes to pure combat power).
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Old 2020-01-30, 12:28   Link #4
Kanon
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I knew Oda wouldn't let Oden get defeated fair and square, so no surprises there for me. The wound Kaido sustained is cross-shaped, so wasn't he actually wounded by both of Oden's blades rather than just Enma like we were told?

I guess the chapter tells us what the deal was and we just don't have the details now. In any case, it appears Orochi and Kaido made a total fool out of Oden. The timeline doesn't make sense though, because Kaido and Moria's battle happened two years after the deal was made.

And we already knew that Oden died by being boiled alive. Can't remember which chapter it was though, but I've kept hearing it these past few months.
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Old 2020-01-30, 12:44   Link #5
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We see King after Ashura was stabbed, but it doesn't seem like it was his hand which did it.
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Old 2020-01-30, 13:23   Link #6
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Sin View Post
So Oden and Kaido were on the same level and Kaido needed to play dirty to gain advantage. I don't mind this too much. This is the best thing Oda could have done after hyping both of the characters so much. This way neither look bad(at least when it comes to pure combat power).
You know, going back to this.... shortly after my earlier post, it occurred to me that while Oden may have been at his peak around the time of his death, the same might not have been true for Kaidou. After all, twenty years passed since then... which is plenty of time for him to become stronger. In fact, this is sort of partially confirmed by Sengoku when he spoke of the Rocks pirates. During their rookie years, both Kaidou and Big Mom were nowhere near as strong then as they are in the present. So while Kaidou was indeed mighty 20 years ago, he may not have been at the same level as he is now....

Either way, I feel this further hypes up Moria's past strength. Especially since, interestingly enough, the Vivre Card databook confirms that he was a rookie around the time he challenged Kaidou. So whether the emperor was at his peak back then or not, he still got much of his crew decimated by a rookie pirate, which is still quite an impressive feat! It really makes me wonder what heights the former warlord would have reached if his own crew weren't annihilated in turn.....?
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Old 2020-01-30, 13:28   Link #7
khoa1708
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lots of plot devices in wano huh?

i rather have kaido just be stronger than oden instead of making excuses...

let's go back to the main plot already... this flashback is getting too messy...
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Old 2020-01-30, 13:46   Link #8
Hakai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
You know, going back to this.... shortly after my earlier post, it occurred to me that while Oden may have been at his peak around the time of his death, the same might not have been true for Kaidou. After all, twenty years passed since then... which is plenty of time for him to become stronger. In fact, this is sort of partially confirmed by Sengoku when he spoke of the Rocks pirates. During their rookie years, both Kaidou and Big Mom were nowhere near as strong then as they are in the present. So while Kaidou was indeed mighty 20 years ago, he may not have been at the same level as he is now....
Definitely possible. He's currently the strongest creature alive and has "in 1vs1 always bet on Kaido" hype so good chance he got even stronger. But Oden still should be a top tier swordsman, up there with the likes of Mihawk and Rayleigh imo.

Quote:
Either way, I feel this further hypes up Moria's past strength. Especially since, interestingly enough, the Vivre Card databook confirms that he was a rookie around the time he challenged Kaidou. So whether the emperor was at his peak back then or not, he still got much of his crew decimated by a rookie pirate, which is still quite an impressive feat! It really makes me wonder what heights the former warlord would have reached if his own crew weren't annihilated in turn.....?
Remember Oda's bad future version drawings of certain characters? Moria is basically that. Never lived up to his full potential
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Old 2020-01-30, 16:59   Link #9
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Not sure what will happen within those aforementioned three days but this flashback is coming full circle now.
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Old 2020-01-30, 19:15   Link #10
Kanon
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Are the text spoilers fully confirmed? I've heard they're fake and we can only rely on the pics and their translations for now. It would certainly explain the discrepancy I've pointed out.
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Old 2020-01-31, 05:04   Link #11
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Pacing is quite good this chapter.

Shinobu wore gloves in the battle, which she joined on her own accord. so it wasn't her hand stabbing Ashura. Kid Shinobu has a cute design, but Oda could really put more effort into making Kids show different ages. Height- and figure-wise they all are the same.
Oden saved her by denying Shinobu was his underling after the battle.
Kiku's expression in battle was fierce.
Forgot that Hiyori kicking Momonosuke was a thing. w

Chance are good that next chapter finally wraps this awful flashback up.
Nothing inside the flashback was more emotional than Kinemon's desperate cries for support right before the flashback. And we didn't learn much of use. Biggest thing was probably the Road Poneglyph in FI, but that one is gone, so that knowledge isn't useful too.
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Old 2020-01-31, 11:32   Link #12
Kanon
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Read the translated chapter and the entire part about Moria in the summary was made up. He isn't even mentioned in the chapter.

Somehow the chapter managed to make both Oden and Kaidou look bad. Oden because he got played like a fiddle from start to finish, and Kaidou because he was apparently so scared of Oden he had Orochi bullshit him so he'd stay put long enough for Kaidou to gather more men, and even with that he would have still lost if he hadn't relied on the old lady's trick. Kaidou's troops in this chapter numbered a thousand, by the way. It wasn't mentioned how many they were five years ago.

It was also confirmed that whoever the traitor is was already a traitor back then and tipped off Kaidou about Oden's attack.
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Old 2020-01-31, 12:34   Link #13
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Read the translated chapter and the entire part about Moria in the summary was made up. He isn't even mentioned in the chapter.

Somehow the chapter managed to make both Oden and Kaidou look bad. Oden because he got played like a fiddle from start to finish, and Kaidou because he was apparently so scared of Oden he had Orochi bullshit him so he'd stay put long enough for Kaidou to gather more men, and even with that he would have still lost if he hadn't relied on the old lady's trick. Kaidou's troops in this chapter numbered a thousand, by the way. It wasn't mentioned how many they were five years ago.

It was also confirmed that whoever the traitor is was already a traitor back then and tipped off Kaidou about Oden's attack.
I disagree about this chapter making Kaido weak, IMHO, his trick with Oden actually show that dleader of Beast Pirates quiet cunning fellow. Diminishing your opponent's military strength is a very sensible strategy.

Trick with fake!Momosuke was really dirty but Kaido already was established as a total dick. We (readers) are suppoced to wish for his downfall
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Old 2020-01-31, 17:16   Link #14
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Hmm, it's true that the available translation mentions nothing of Moria, but I'm still gonna wait for the official TL to clarify everything further. Still, I do find it interesting that Kaidou compared Oden to Roger and Whitebeard in the sense that they were strong, yet naive. As far as the traitor among Oden's men goes, my first guess would be Denjirou, since he pretty much stood out the least among the Scabbards. That, and he's still yet to appear in the present time. I know some speculated that he's the yakuza boss Kyoushirou, but I highly doubt that since they look nothing alike (unless he went through some plastic surgery during that 20-year gap, lol). If anything, I think he's more likely to be the Witching Hour Boy, but seeing as that guy's considered an outlaw to the shogunate, it wouldn't make sense for him to be the traitor, in that case (unless the alternate identity is meant to be a cover of sorts). As for my other guess as to the traitor's identity..... would it be strange if I considered Toki a suspect? Frankly, she was looking awful chipper this chapter for someone whose husband is out risking his life to liberate his country from tyranny (and is set to be freaking BOILED ALIVE). I know she could just be putting up an act for her children's sake, but I really have to wonder......
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Old 2020-01-31, 19:50   Link #15
Kanon
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The translation was perfectly accurate last week and it's the same group that did this one, so don't get your hopes up. And I said, the explanation from the summary doesn't make sense when you think about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic-vic View Post
I disagree about this chapter making Kaido weak, IMHO, his trick with Oden actually show that dleader of Beast Pirates quiet cunning fellow. Diminishing your opponent's military strength is a very sensible strategy.

Trick with fake!Momosuke was really dirty but Kaido already was established as a total dick. We (readers) are suppoced to wish for his downfall
It depends on how you look at it. Was tricking Oden smart or cowardly? Personally, I expected the guy called the "strongest creature" and whose hobby is attempting to kill himself to be fearless and willing to accept any challenge, so my image of him was shattered. It turns out he only fights battles he knows he can win. That's not a flaw, there really is nothing wrong with using your brain rather than your brawn to achieve your goals, but it makes him seem less fearsome to me.
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Old 2020-02-01, 06:18   Link #16
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Like many other people, I think Oda just didn't think the timeline of events through and that's why he had Oden waste 5 years twerking in the streets. And the battle didn't even look that good. It was mostly small panels with faces and no-name fodders getting cut, only the spread wth Oden cutting Kaido is memorable in any way. And Ashura getting stabbed by someone whose hand looks nothing like King's. I'm sure the anime will go all out for this, though.

Still three more days in-universe and at least two weeks IRL until this flashback ends.
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Old 2020-02-01, 08:48   Link #17
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Kaido looked real shocked right there. Like "Wut, was I cut ??? I thought I could not be wounded ??"
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Old 2020-02-01, 13:31   Link #18
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It depends on how you look at it. Was tricking Oden smart or cowardly? Personally, I expected the guy called the "strongest creature" and whose hobby is attempting to kill himself to be fearless and willing to accept any challenge, so my image of him was shattered. It turns out he only fights battles he knows he can win. That's not a flaw, there really is nothing wrong with using your brain rather than your brawn to achieve your goals, but it makes him seem less fearsome to me.
While there is no direct proof, I think it's implied that Kaido was not at his peak during this battle 20 years ago. As mentioned already, the passing of 20 years' time is more than plenty to become arguably the strongest being in the verse. Let's keep in mind that despite Kaido's title, he has suffered 7 losses throughout his life as a pirate. This shows that pretty much no one has a perfect/infallible record throughout their career.

We all knew that Oden was going to fall due to underhanded tactics. Pirates don't play by rules. Even someone as powerful and respectable as Roger had to team up with Garp to defeat Rocks. I don't think this chapter takes away from Kaido's hype. Sometimes you do what you've gotta do to succeed. Live to fight another day and continue to grow stronger.
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Old 2020-02-03, 06:48   Link #19
~Yami~
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I don't think I can handle this flashback anymore
it is like a constant depressing scenes all over again
I hope next chapter might be the last

notes : Shinobu is actually really beautiful when she was young
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Old 2020-02-03, 17:32   Link #20
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So the guy that almost killed immortal Kaido, got one-shot by Roger.
Will mere manga pages and web browsers be enough to reveal Roger's godlike powers?
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